[Locked] God Vs. Science
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I was thinking about this a while back and I wanted to ask you guys. Do you think it's better to sometimes turn to science for explanations as apposed to praying to God?
You see, I was reading a book by the guy who wrote the Da Vinci Code and Angels and Demons, in it there was a kid who contracted a illness. The doctors who were monitoring him said to the parents that they had treatment which the parents could afford and stop the illness before it causes permanent damage. Being devout Catholics, they said they wouldn't do it and leave it in gods hands. Weeks pass, and with all their prayer, nothing happens. Late at night, a doctor snuck in and gave the child some medicine that would stop the illness, going against the parent's wishes, but still saving the kids life.
To add on to my point, (spoiler for those that either didn't read the or see the movie) In Angels and Demons, it's revealed that the Guy who killed the Pope was his son. How it happened was that he (the Pope when he was still alive) fell in love with a nun and she in turn loved him, so much that they wanted a child. However, due to their vows, were forbidden to engage in intercourse. They found a loop hole by using science (don't remember the scientific name for it)so she could still bear his child and not have lost her virginity.
Final point, like stated above, is it so wrong to sometimes trust in the world than in God?
You see, I was reading a book by the guy who wrote the Da Vinci Code and Angels and Demons, in it there was a kid who contracted a illness. The doctors who were monitoring him said to the parents that they had treatment which the parents could afford and stop the illness before it causes permanent damage. Being devout Catholics, they said they wouldn't do it and leave it in gods hands. Weeks pass, and with all their prayer, nothing happens. Late at night, a doctor snuck in and gave the child some medicine that would stop the illness, going against the parent's wishes, but still saving the kids life.
To add on to my point, (spoiler for those that either didn't read the or see the movie) In Angels and Demons, it's revealed that the Guy who killed the Pope was his son. How it happened was that he (the Pope when he was still alive) fell in love with a nun and she in turn loved him, so much that they wanted a child. However, due to their vows, were forbidden to engage in intercourse. They found a loop hole by using science (don't remember the scientific name for it)so she could still bear his child and not have lost her virginity.
Final point, like stated above, is it so wrong to sometimes trust in the world than in God?
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Is this even a question on a community like Fakku? Most of us are atheists or people who do not worship a central god. If we were true followers of the Abrahamic god, we would not be looking at hentai.
The closest explanation you're going to get if you want to believe in Christianity is the Ancient Astronaut theory.
Otherwise, see this video, and then ask yourself again if it is a force of good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTUxcxHLdrM&feature=related
The closest explanation you're going to get if you want to believe in Christianity is the Ancient Astronaut theory.
Otherwise, see this video, and then ask yourself again if it is a force of good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTUxcxHLdrM&feature=related
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Gravity cat
the adequately amused
Another Science vs. Religion thread? Topics of this nature never really get anywhere.
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well, it depends on the POV. I think God would give you the chance. It's whether you take it or not. Using the example from you about the kid with the illness, then I would think that God did provide the chance for the kid to be saved but the parents did not take it. It doesn't mean God has abandon us just that the parents did not take the chance.
Personally, I think God doesn't give gifts equally but he gives chances equally and you have to take the chance and work hard towards it.
Personally, I think God doesn't give gifts equally but he gives chances equally and you have to take the chance and work hard towards it.
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It depends on if you're religious or not. And even then, it would depend on HOW religious you are.
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Fadetoblack wrote...
so wrongmmmmm
Your final point passes. Congratulations. Do you feel relieved?
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Gravity cat wrote...
Another Science vs. Religion thread? Topics of this nature never really get anywhere.say what! wrote...
Oh look another religion thread.
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First of all, rofl at quoting from Dan Brown as a critique against catholic religion.
As I also studied religion at University I hope I can make you understand that things are a little different than in Dan Brown's fiction or other superficial critique about 'God's care'. About the case you presented, the parents Dan Brown talks about are not really catholic. In the new testament you find the perfect example on the official point of view of catholicism,- one of the temptations of christ: the devil asks jesus to jump from the temple and, as he is in 'god's care' the god's angels will catch him and he won't die. The devil asks jesus to act just like the parents who prefer to leave their son untreated, in 'god's care' so if god wishes he could make him healthy. Well, jeses says : 'do not tempt your god (do not put your god to test)'. And so, a completely different point of view. Catholicism and other primordial christian religions don't see this life on earth as a life where god fulfills your wishes, a sweet,easy and happy life; but as a life of test, where one should learn to become mature, virtuous and humble. And that the real life comes only after death, that is only a passage to something better and righteous. So death is bad only because it;s a loss to the people left behind.
Another thing, a lot of the saints from the first centuries were doctors, and that title is clear that they didn't cure their pacients with prayers, but with the scientific methods of the time.
Well, this is how the majority of the christian religions see death and 'god's care', at least at theological and philosophical level.
In judaism you have the book of job which covers the same theme - 'god's care' for the human. job was an honest man but the devil and god made a bet about how virtuous really is job, so job lost his wealth, his family, his health, and above all, - his hentai collection. the rest of the story is how some guys come to him and they all talk about what's right and wrong, what's good and evil, about divine punishment and 'god's care'. everyone with his own version about how things are. the conclusion is that jehovah means literally 'the one who is'. that good and evil are only human concepts gained from the apple from eden which works only at human level, this way of seeing things is to narrow to understand god's will and the grandeur of the wotrd and all the living.
I'm not catholic, neither am i a jew, but if you want to criticise something it's better if you understand what you criticise. I'm not a religious person but I find the atheists that criticise religions withound understanding them are like the religious people who criticise science without knowing anything about it.
And, about the main topic. religion and science are by definition incompatible. science is based on induction: you take a number of repetitive events, you establish a general law and then you verify that law with new events. If the predictions match, and it's according to mathematical logic correct, than the law is correct.
religions are based on miracles. that means : extraordinary events that escape from the common sense, repetitive events that science is based on. If science manages to explain a miracle, than it wouldn't be a miracle - it would be a special/rare event, but a normal one.
And science doesn't have ultimate truths (yet). My major is mathematics and I know just how full of flaws and paradoxes is mathematical logic when you try to reach its deepest, basic concepts. And how science becomes weird when it stretches these mathematical logic concepts n extreme situations (quantum mechanics, black holes, universe expansion).
The conclusion is very simple. Don't take for granted everything you hear. If you don't want a superficial opinion, or to repeat what others have said, don't be a hypocrite, read the right lectures and think with your own head.
As I also studied religion at University I hope I can make you understand that things are a little different than in Dan Brown's fiction or other superficial critique about 'God's care'. About the case you presented, the parents Dan Brown talks about are not really catholic. In the new testament you find the perfect example on the official point of view of catholicism,- one of the temptations of christ: the devil asks jesus to jump from the temple and, as he is in 'god's care' the god's angels will catch him and he won't die. The devil asks jesus to act just like the parents who prefer to leave their son untreated, in 'god's care' so if god wishes he could make him healthy. Well, jeses says : 'do not tempt your god (do not put your god to test)'. And so, a completely different point of view. Catholicism and other primordial christian religions don't see this life on earth as a life where god fulfills your wishes, a sweet,easy and happy life; but as a life of test, where one should learn to become mature, virtuous and humble. And that the real life comes only after death, that is only a passage to something better and righteous. So death is bad only because it;s a loss to the people left behind.
Another thing, a lot of the saints from the first centuries were doctors, and that title is clear that they didn't cure their pacients with prayers, but with the scientific methods of the time.
Well, this is how the majority of the christian religions see death and 'god's care', at least at theological and philosophical level.
In judaism you have the book of job which covers the same theme - 'god's care' for the human. job was an honest man but the devil and god made a bet about how virtuous really is job, so job lost his wealth, his family, his health, and above all, - his hentai collection. the rest of the story is how some guys come to him and they all talk about what's right and wrong, what's good and evil, about divine punishment and 'god's care'. everyone with his own version about how things are. the conclusion is that jehovah means literally 'the one who is'. that good and evil are only human concepts gained from the apple from eden which works only at human level, this way of seeing things is to narrow to understand god's will and the grandeur of the wotrd and all the living.
I'm not catholic, neither am i a jew, but if you want to criticise something it's better if you understand what you criticise. I'm not a religious person but I find the atheists that criticise religions withound understanding them are like the religious people who criticise science without knowing anything about it.
And, about the main topic. religion and science are by definition incompatible. science is based on induction: you take a number of repetitive events, you establish a general law and then you verify that law with new events. If the predictions match, and it's according to mathematical logic correct, than the law is correct.
religions are based on miracles. that means : extraordinary events that escape from the common sense, repetitive events that science is based on. If science manages to explain a miracle, than it wouldn't be a miracle - it would be a special/rare event, but a normal one.
And science doesn't have ultimate truths (yet). My major is mathematics and I know just how full of flaws and paradoxes is mathematical logic when you try to reach its deepest, basic concepts. And how science becomes weird when it stretches these mathematical logic concepts n extreme situations (quantum mechanics, black holes, universe expansion).
The conclusion is very simple. Don't take for granted everything you hear. If you don't want a superficial opinion, or to repeat what others have said, don't be a hypocrite, read the right lectures and think with your own head.
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Seriously. "Serious Discussion." should really be renamed into "Religions and Different Oopinions."
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Tegumi
"im always cute"
mochure wrote...
Seriously. "Serious Discussion." should really be renamed into "Religions and Different Oopinions."Seriously, you're retarded. There are two threads on religion on page 1.
And this one's locked.