M.D. Students in Public Schools

I have been wondering for a while about your opinions on this matter. I've always wondered about the structure of the curriculum for mentally disabled students in public schools. I know that every school has a different set up for them, but what specific aspects about the way mentally impaired children are treated throughout middle and high school do you and don't you like? Should they be separated all together in different schools? For example: I've seen some of the MD students in high-school washing windows in the cafeteria. Why aren't they in a class learning something? Or the fact that students can earn extra credit by assuming responsibility over one of the MD kids during their free periods at school. I go to a very highly-esteemed public school, and I find this amidst other observations I've made about the mentally challenged school-system disconcerting, and questionable to say in the least. Opinions? Comments? Have at it.

Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) pretty much says most cases have to be accommodated by the (public) schools.

No matter how much the law or whatever governments come up with to help the disabled, it won't change the fact that discrimination will still happen. The school teachers might help the disabled but you can't expect the students to do the same. Some might help them out of pity but a lot of them would probably just ignore them while some idiots will bully them for fun.

Personally, I think it's better to separate the disabled in a school that specializes in teaching the disabled. They can come up with a curriculum so that would help them in life. That would also lessen the discrimination and they can have more fun growing up. Although this way would only work if the teachers were kind and patient.....

True to the first paragraph.

As to the second: why? That's like segregation of people with dark skin: "separate but equal" is NOT equality.
I agree specialized teaching would be good, but only in addition to "regular" curriculum. If disabled kids are kept out of 'real' schools, they will not be equally equipped to handle 'real' life and have equal footing in the job market or education, etc.

In terms of special schooling, I've got some experience with that: I went to a special-ed college for two years. Some of the kids really do need help, but many of them (of whom some became great friends whom I consider equally intelligent to myself) knew their stuff really well: they just had issues showing it.
The problem with schools is they teach things only a few ways, and some learners need other methods (ie. hands-on, different materials, more time, etc) to learn.

Why would letting them be in a separate class be the same has segregation? I was separated from the tards in high schools. (and im not talking about the mentally retarded) Shit i went to high school from the age of 14 to 16 and graduated.. in the top 10%. Why would it matter if you separated the chudes from the elite?

My cousin son has Cp. He in the same class as the others kids because the school district hippie idea that all kids should be in the same environment. Half the kids don't speak a word of English... he can't speak Spanish. He having a hard time learning anything because he speaks the native language of his country... and speak french and catalan. He knows pre algebra and more advance stuff... but they discriminating him by leaving him in a class that can't function in his needs.

When i was in school they had a class for the mental, blind and deaf. Those who couldn't walk or talk where in the class with us. Certain kids need more privately and interpersonal learning.. just because you think all kids are equal.. doesn't mean all kids are equal.. you need separation between stuff to keep all kids safe. Also the separate but equal thing... my grandmother lived thru that.. she got the raw end of that deal... whites had a low reading literacy then black kids... mainly because they had parent who gave a fuck.

Exactly my point. See, I'm not saying we should treat them different. I merely pointing out the fact that they have different needs. The methods that they use to teach a normal class might not work for them and when you're in a class of 20+ students, the teachers won't have time to go hands-on for the "special" kids and if they do, those kids would just get picked on because they were given special attention(trust me, I know).

In that case, its much more efficient to separate them and teach them the way they were suppose to be taught; through special means and perhaps a different approach to the normal kids.

Sort of like the VN Katawa Shoujo, you mean, where the school is one centered for those with disabilities, not to segregate, but to better cater to any special needs they could have?

Yes. That is exactly what I mean. This is not discrimination and segregation but just to give them a better treatment than what they would have gotten in a public or normal school.

I see what you are both saying, but if NO level of a mentally disabled person's education includes interacting and learning along with "regular" people, it's tough to learn how to blend in and survive.

If you go special-ed all the way... well, you're not prepared socially or cultured into the rest of society.

Woah.Being mentally disabled or even physically handicapped makes it hard enough to blend in and survive, let alone normal people. Just face it. The disabled will never truly be equal to a quaint man as he's exactly what he is described as,disabled. The disabled are equal to us in humanity, but as a being that thrives like a parasite, an acceptable one at that, unlike true morons who are such by choice, on the worker and his or her's peers, they will never be helpful or learn to be a man of the modern age.

Again, learning how to "pass" (what people of minority racial/ethnic groups often aim for, just to keep a low profile by acting a certain mainstream way) is a skill some people with non-physical disorders really put to use quite often.

To use a metaphor:
As a duck, if you live with ducks your entire life, you won't know how to function around flamingos.
If a duck lives among flamingos, sometimes they pick up their mannerisms and ways.
(Again, shitty metaphor, but I hope you get my point.)

Even people with physical disabilities benefit from inclusion in "regular" activities and centers of commerce/education. If you can't adjust and meet the standards (to some degree) of a group, you're going to lose out. In terms of people not meeting ALL 'standards' of human life and capabilities, that's where the ADA comes in.

You seem to still be holding on to the idea that there is some hope of normality and sanctitude for the disabled. Just answer this, what point is there to exprodite resources for someone who by title and action will never be able to succeed without support?

And just to focus on what you've stated
"People with non-physical disabilities benefit from inclusion"
First of all, learning disorders/disabilities and mental disabilities are in completely different ranges, yes I agree people with learning disorders and disabilities should be allowed servicable classes to gain skills as they do have some fluidic intelligence and any problem they currently have does not minimize that, only crystallized intelligence. People with mental disability however, like mental retardation or extreme non savant cases of autism must and should not. Those people not only lack the tabula rosa ability of a developing child but the capacity to do and use anything that could be retained.

"If you can't adjust and meet the standards of a group, you will lose out"
Quite the opposite, if you do, you will miss out. Not only is there no net benefit from helping them or any possible benefit,change of a working system to meet the expectations of something below it designates that it will suffer. In the status quo as you have stated, students, not even special needs students suffer, why then help those who do not need and will not be able to gain the knowledge,if you can save our soon to be working man or woman from this atrocity of a public schooling system?

In all,I am actually confused.Are we discussing if special needs children should get more help or for a lack of a better term, retards, should get some unneeded help?

My mother is a special education teacher.

The majority of her students are ones that have some small sort of impairment that makes them learn at a somewhat slower rate than more other kids and just need a little extra help in getting through the lesson.

These are the ones you'll see commonly in the actual classes learning and such because it does benefit them and it just takes a little effort to get through some of the material which is what my mom is there for. Often times they have a para there to help assist their learning in the class, to give the extra attention they need.

But there are those few students that have severe mental disabilities.

They will never be able to do more than things like addition and simple multiplication.

They will never be able to have high vocabularies. History is all but useless to them.

Instead of trying to teach them things they will never benefit from, it's better to help them develop skills they will need. Such as learning how to balance a checkbook and counting change. Learning how to shop for themselves. Simple things like that.

Because truthfully, most of these people will not be able to live without some form of assisted living.

I think you're getting the wrong idea man, I guess he said that so that:1. MD students won't be bullied or made fun of. Second,it's a school that specializes in teaching MDs! What more could you ask for?

Thank you! And just to reply to one of the post above, when I mention special education, it doesn't mean they would be cooped up in a classroom everyday to learn stuff in theory. What use is theory when they can put it to practice?

Surely these places would actually give them hands-on experience to mingle with the regular people. Like trips to a factory that has disabled people working for them or offices where they do internship/hire a few disabled staff.

I actually know an audit firm that hires disabled people to work as their admin assistants and I know for a fact(because I've worked there) that he is a capable worker(albeit the fact that he's a bit slow on the uptake).