Protests in Ukraine

Wondered what other people thought of the crazy rioting that's going on in Kiev, Ukraine.

Essentially for those who aren't following the news story. There's been tension between Ukraine and Russia for years now due to Ukraine expressing interest in signing the EU agreement and joining NATO. Russia is a huge source of income, resource, and trade for Ukraine.

In August, Russia suspended all trades coming out of Ukraine in anger over them wanting to join the EU.

Then in December the Ukrainian government accepted 15 million dollars and 33% discount discount on gas. This is essentially a bribe by the Russian government to pressure Ukraine into not signing with the EU and thus retain its control over Ukraine.

I sympathize with the protesters 100%. I feel like Ukraine needs to stand up for itself as a country and sever ties with Russia. Poland did it back in the 80's with their Solidarity movement (for those who want THAT history let me know, it's long and arduous) but that's beside the point. If Poland can tell Russia to go fuck itself then so can Ukraine.

Your thoughts?

Ukraine has long been under Russia's wing since even before the Soviets.

I say it's about time they try to be more independent. Though the result doesn't really affect me in any direct way, I'm rooting for those guys in mismatched surplus and sporting equipment.

It's going to be a long road for them after they win. IF they win.

A bit of derailing but what with a few countries starting to fight for themselves, I can imagine many other countries will follow suit inspired by their actions. In other words, we could be headed for a time of considerable disarray in the world. Wonder if somebody would try to take advantage of that. . .

P.S. sorry for necrobumping but this thread looked a bit lonely.

Has anyone read Tom Clancy's new book "Command Authority"? I'm reading it right now and it's eerily close to what's happening...

When a country relies so much on one country like that, I can understand how fucked it is for Ukraine, considering the majority of their goods are being traded to Russia.

I'd like to say "Fuck Russia. Just join the EU. Lose all that money, don't let yourself be controlled by one country.", but things aren't as easy as that huh.

I don't know what type of goods Ukraine sells to Russia, but wouldn't be any other country that would need that good too apart from Russia though?

Well im rooting for those crazy Ukranians. They've been under the thumb of the Russians for a while and i want' to see how this plays out. Maybe it'll cause a ripple and make other countries sart rioting like a wave of revolution. We shall see... I just hope they turn out okay.

Its interesting seeing riot pictures like those in HD. This is probably blasphemous but some of those pictures are breath taking as well as horrifying. Protest pictures here.

To me it's simply another country that can't tolerate the corruption any longer. Ukraine has it's own history and reasons, but it's the same old story, they are fighting for better conditions for their country and it is needed to be done.

The link doesn't really work for me
Buy yeah, the pictures seem so unreal

well there have been other European countries rioting as well like in France and Greece each for their own reasons, not to mention Russia might be getting some shit coming their way to with all the anit gay laws and mass corruption that is leaving alot of their own people homeless. So it seems like things in Europe might be changing up if I learned anything in history class is that Europeans know how riot. And who knows some of that shit might be coming here to the states as well, one can only hope.

i beleive that wherever powers come into contact, there will be conflict, that being said, when there is money to be made from a joint union, and one country wants to back out, ya, there is gonna be conflict. I just hope that they can settal it without resorting to viloence.

Hopefully (fingers crossed) those guys are getting shot at by snipers too now allegedly the foos are finally firing back on a side note: FREEE NET NEUTRALITY

The thing about Poland is that Stalin sold them out at the time, so it can be seen easily from any side why Poland easily got the chance to be independent.

As for Ukraine, there is a huge Russian population and there are debates over Russian being an official language. This goes far deeper than just simple politics or land, much more than Poland at least.

Rissia keeps a navy base there I don't think Putin will give up so easily. Ukrainians rise and resist!

What about the Russians who live in the country, not to mention the *other* minorities?

This isn't a fight between good and evil, this is a fight between two corrupt oligarchies (Ukrainian and Russian) and people having their own reasons to prefer one evil over the other.

If we were to be fair, then every government in the EU and Eurasia would be an oligarchy. Heck, every government bar none would be one, I never heard of a Country where the power (political, administrative, legislative, financial and so on) is NOT held by a few wealthy (wether they're a dozen or a hundred doesn't matter, they're still a small minority of the total population.

That said, I know of the Ukrainian political crisis thanks to Wikipedia, newspapers and television, so what they told us common folk may be biased in one way or another (here in Western Europe it definitely portrays Putin and Russia as the 'evil empire' of bygone days).

So far, I approve of Yanukovych and his cabinet being removed from power, but I'm a bit concerned about the aftermath: as both Flaser and Winged-Fapper correctly said, Russia has rather large interests in Ukraine, be it military related (having a naval base on the Black Sea) and political-ideological (with Ukraine being populated by a considerable number of Russians or pro-Russia advocates, enough to turn the East and South of the Country against Kiev).

There's also the fact that Putin "bought" Ukraine through energy discounts and large loans of money, and now that Yanukovych is no more, those bargains are null and void, thus the Ukrainians now face a major financial crisis that, if not addressed, could lead to default.

Of course, I'm hopeful that the great powers will be able to listen to reason and solve this crisis peacefully, but for once I do agree with what McCain said: watch out for Putin, for he is dangerous.

EDIT:

As always, I was too optimistic. Crimea has been invaded by Russian armed forces (of course, Moscow claims that this is only to "protect Russians abroad") and a new government, loyal to Putin and Yanukovych and hostile do Kiev, has been appointed - this after armed men occupied the Crimean Parliament and other cities and installations. The Crimean population, being mostly Russians, supports this course of action.

As a European citizen, I'm worried. I don't care about Putin and his stupid power games, but I do care that the recklesness of a bunch of Soviet nostalgics could turn this into a mess.

Here some more info on the situation, if anyone's interested.

All this seems to be escalating quite well. Personally, I'm more interested in what Russia's ulterior motives are in sparking this international standoff.

I country can't just break its ties with its allies.