The definition of religion.
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There are many definitions of religion. I'll go ahead and quote Dictionary.com here for just a few.
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
The Supreme Court never stated WHAT religion is, but they DID insist that one doesn't need to believe in a god to be in a religion...as used as a precedent in this case where Atheism was ruled a religion.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45874
This, by the way, is not debateable...the law owns your opinion...sorry.
However what IS debateable is the TRUE definition of religion, what, in your words, is religion?
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
The Supreme Court never stated WHAT religion is, but they DID insist that one doesn't need to believe in a god to be in a religion...as used as a precedent in this case where Atheism was ruled a religion.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45874
This, by the way, is not debateable...the law owns your opinion...sorry.
However what IS debateable is the TRUE definition of religion, what, in your words, is religion?
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Two definitions
Legal: Anything that coincides with a set of beliefs. This is how Scientology was able to attain religion status. Atheism in the eyes of the legal system view Atheism as a religion and therefore protected by the First Amendment of the U.S constitution. Otherwise, Atheists could legally be discriminated against unless this stance was taken by the courts.
The actual definition that the average person uses to describe a religion is entirely different. In order to explain this properly i will have to break Atheism down to it various forms.
What is Atheism?
The rejection of Theism or the position of Dieties do not exist. This is known as strong vs weak Atheism.
What is Theism?
Theism in the broadest sense is the belief in at least one deity.
Strong Atheism is summed up in a single sentence. "Strong atheism is the explicit affirmation that gods do not exist." This is not a religion. It is not faith. Atheism in this definition can not be a religion. The very characteristics of religious belief as missing. As I pointed out before, no doctrine, no church, mosques, no prayers, nothing. Your "typical" Atheists on the internet belong to this definition.
A religion is a system of human thought which includes a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices that give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life through reference to a higher power, deity or deities, or ultimate truth.
By this definition that 99.9% of humanity would use to describe religion. Strong Atheism can not be a religion as it outright rejects the very notion of a God or Gods, it does not have a set of narratives, no symbols and no practices that give meaning to our lives.
Weak Atheism is a broader definition as it includes all other forms of non-theism. Which include Buddhism along with other non deity based systems of belief. Also known as non-theism.
As far as the legal definition goes, I support it as just because we have a different view than the majority of the country doesn't mean we should be silenced and kept from having our voices protected by the first Amendment.
Outside the legal world, Atheism is not a religion, it never was nor will it ever be. As I stated earlier we lack everything that is used to define a religion.
Legal: Anything that coincides with a set of beliefs. This is how Scientology was able to attain religion status. Atheism in the eyes of the legal system view Atheism as a religion and therefore protected by the First Amendment of the U.S constitution. Otherwise, Atheists could legally be discriminated against unless this stance was taken by the courts.
The actual definition that the average person uses to describe a religion is entirely different. In order to explain this properly i will have to break Atheism down to it various forms.
What is Atheism?
The rejection of Theism or the position of Dieties do not exist. This is known as strong vs weak Atheism.
What is Theism?
Theism in the broadest sense is the belief in at least one deity.
Strong Atheism is summed up in a single sentence. "Strong atheism is the explicit affirmation that gods do not exist." This is not a religion. It is not faith. Atheism in this definition can not be a religion. The very characteristics of religious belief as missing. As I pointed out before, no doctrine, no church, mosques, no prayers, nothing. Your "typical" Atheists on the internet belong to this definition.
A religion is a system of human thought which includes a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices that give meaning to the practitioner's experiences of life through reference to a higher power, deity or deities, or ultimate truth.
By this definition that 99.9% of humanity would use to describe religion. Strong Atheism can not be a religion as it outright rejects the very notion of a God or Gods, it does not have a set of narratives, no symbols and no practices that give meaning to our lives.
Weak Atheism is a broader definition as it includes all other forms of non-theism. Which include Buddhism along with other non deity based systems of belief. Also known as non-theism.
As far as the legal definition goes, I support it as just because we have a different view than the majority of the country doesn't mean we should be silenced and kept from having our voices protected by the first Amendment.
Outside the legal world, Atheism is not a religion, it never was nor will it ever be. As I stated earlier we lack everything that is used to define a religion.
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I aqgree with you that in your definition, Atheism is not a relioigon, because in your definition, one must believe in adeity to be a religion. Before you mentioned the Webster stated outright in your favor. But l;et's go to Webster, shall we?
Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈli-jən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back — more at rely
Date: 13th century
1 a : the state of a religious b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
Atheists are in themselves, a group, so the follow the idea of conformity. So they match definition 3. And most atheists believe pretty much the same basic ideas. They have natural morals, evolution was right, and god doesn't exist. AtheistS HAVE formed groups, so in a sense, they are also intitutionalized in their religious attitude, beliefs, and practices.
Now, if the law states that atheism is a religion, there's really no arguin that with anything. IT is what the law says it is. You casnnot seperate a LAwful definition with a definiiton of your own, that's what people who BREAK the law do, people who find their murders just, or think they have a right to steal something for some odd reason. Regardless of how you look at it, the law is finite. IF it says something is true, then it is true.
Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈli-jən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back — more at rely
Date: 13th century
1 a : the state of a religious b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
Atheists are in themselves, a group, so the follow the idea of conformity. So they match definition 3. And most atheists believe pretty much the same basic ideas. They have natural morals, evolution was right, and god doesn't exist. AtheistS HAVE formed groups, so in a sense, they are also intitutionalized in their religious attitude, beliefs, and practices.
Now, if the law states that atheism is a religion, there's really no arguin that with anything. IT is what the law says it is. You casnnot seperate a LAwful definition with a definiiton of your own, that's what people who BREAK the law do, people who find their murders just, or think they have a right to steal something for some odd reason. Regardless of how you look at it, the law is finite. IF it says something is true, then it is true.
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BigLundi wrote...
I aqgree with you that in your definition, Atheism is not a relioigon, because in your definition, one must believe in adeity to be a religion. Before you mentioned the Webster stated outright in your favor. But l;et's go to Webster, shall we?Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈli-jən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back — more at rely
Date: 13th century
1 a : the state of a religious b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith
Atheists are in themselves, a group, so the follow the idea of conformity. So they match definition 3. And most atheists believe pretty much the same basic ideas. They have natural morals, evolution was right, and god doesn't exist. AtheistS HAVE formed groups, so in a sense, they are also intitutionalized in their religious attitude, beliefs, and practices.
Now, if the law states that atheism is a religion, there's really no arguin that with anything. IT is what the law says it is. You casnnot seperate a LAwful definition with a definiiton of your own, that's what people who BREAK the law do, people who find their murders just, or think they have a right to steal something for some odd reason. Regardless of how you look at it, the law is finite. IF it says something is true, then it is true.
You must be an atheist to other gods not of your religion. Unless you believe in all the gods.
We are all atheist about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
The only thing that atheists have in common is that they do not believe in a god. There is nothing else. That is all.
So no it is not a religion.
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There is a God:
If the legal world were to define religion by only the belief in a god. Some, such as Buddhism, Taoism and Shinto — even Scientology — would be free to be discriminated against. Due to not having legal protections.
[A.D.D. Moment] Why is someone I presume to be a Christian trying to say that Atheism is a religion when that only sets the stage to eviscerate their own?
There is a common belief:
Atheists are bound by no common ideology or belief. An atheist is someone who does not believe in god. Period (remember Atheism also includes Buddhists, Shinto's,etc). Beyond that, things get a little murky. There are the secular humanists, there are logical empiricists, there are existentialists, there are skeptics, nihilists the list goes on. Not all atheists believe in evolution or put their 'faith' in science. Atheists as a whole are bound by a common thread -disbelief- and nothing else.
[A.D.D. moment]If disbelief makes it a religion then everyone who thinks Obama isn't a legal citizen and thus is not allowed to be President also counts as a religion.
There are absolutely no laws:
All religions have a set of laws or regulations ranging from what you can eat to who you may or may not kill or covet. In atheism, this is entirely absent.
There is no Church or Ritual:
The idea of an organized church of atheism in which its rituals are practiced by gatherings of (un)believers is a non sequitur. (Seriously, I shouldn't even have to break it down this far.)
There is absolutely no unified concept of spirituality:
Unlike atheistic religions such as Buddhism, and Jain non-religious atheism has no spiritual credo. Some atheists may consider themselves 'spiritual' (against Buddhists), while a great many do not. Some may feel some sort of connection to nature or the universe while others may feel nothing of the sort.
I suggest you look up the "oceanic feeling" in Civilization and Its Discontents by Sigmund Freud.
There is no scripture:
Christianity has the Bible, Islam the Koran; Judaism has the Torah, Hinduism the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita. Sikhism has the Guru Granth Sahib, Adi Granth (along with Janamsakhis,Dasam Granth). Jains have the Kalpasutra, Agama, Tattvartha Sutra, Sanmatti Prakaran. I could go on but, that is a post in or itself. Atheism has no scripture or sacred text. Darwin's Origin of the Species, while held in high regard by many atheists, doesn't really count.
Atheism has no Clergy:
In addition to having no rituals, atheism has no ritualistic leaders. Unlike virtually every religion known to man, atheism has no anointed hierarchy to lead its 'adherents' closer to the truth. This is not to say that there aren't prominent atheists. There are. But, absent the sacred texts and rituals of religion — not to mention a proper congregation — they do not constitute a priesthood or clergy.
There is no tradition:
Don't even need to explain this one.
There is no founder:
Buddha, Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, L. Ron Hubbard - most major religions have a founding figure or prophet. Atheism has no such figure. You could try to argue that old timers like Galileo who rose to prominence are the founders but, you'd still be wrong. Atheism has no founders and that is all there is too it.
There Are No Holidays
Most religions have holy days (still, despite the all-out assault on Christmas). Atheism has no holidays, and no framework to decide when such holidays would be or what they might commemorate. Festivus doesn't count.
There Is No Concept of the Afterlife:
Most religions attempt to answer the question of what happens to us when we die. Where do we go to be warmed in the loving embrace of the lord? Where do they go to be horrifically tortured? There's heaven and hell, of course, and reincarnation, nirvana and moksha. Atheists have no concept of the afterlife, except that, most commonly, there isn't one
[A.D.D. Moment] Don't try to say that the common idea of no afterlife counter me own statement. Just because a idea is common amongst a set of people doesn't mean that it's the standard.
There Is No Creation Myth:
Hold on, don't get ahead of yourself. You were probably about to jump and say "How is the Big Bang any less of a myth than Genesis"? Keep in mind that not all atheists believe in the Big Bang theory, it's different because it's a scientific postulate that can be tested and the effects of which can be empirically demonstrated. If in the end this theory does not stand up to scientific scrutiny, it will be chucked on the trash heap.
So, atheism shares none of the characteristics common to all belief systems commonly known as religions. Even widely-despised and derided belief systems like Satanism, Wicca, paganism and Presbyterianism are religions by these standards. Atheism is not. Arguing that it is means that faith in god, ritual, community, tradition, spirituality and theology are irrelevant. Religion then becomes an incredibly paltry thing. It is not a source of solace and spiritual wonder; it is not a vehicle for bringing symmetry to the chaos of life and meaning to the void - it's just the act of taking a position on the existence of god. That's it.
Now for those who wouldn't want to trash their own religion in hopes of sticking it to those damn Atheists. They have another argument and that is "Atheism is Faith". This is due to the convoluted nature of the supernatural because the existence of god can be neither definitively proven nor disproved, atheism merely replaces faith in god with faith in science. This is a much subtler argument but, none the less still poisons the well for everybody.
There is a fundamental difference between Atheism and Faith that cuts to the core of what religion is. Faith involves the belief in a god but, not only that it goes much, much farther. Faith is the trust in god and the acceptance of paradox and contradiction. It reveals the "revealed" truth as all truth and from there embraces the unknown. Science is not anathema to faith; it simply operates on a different plane of thought.
A common error is that atheists merely put their faith in secular 'gods' and call them by another name. Richard Dawkins, Darwin and Carl Sagan. But whether an atheist is drawn to the ideas of these men or to Nietzsche or Frank Costanza, it is not proof of 'faith'. Lots of people are admired, from the aforementioned thinkers to Ronald Reagan and Milton Friedman. We sometimes even use religious language and talk about how they are 'idolized' figures. But there is a difference between agreeing with someone or admiring them and having religious faith in them.
Now you can stop with the defense of "The law says it therefore it is". The only reason they even gave it that definition is so narrow minded theists couldn't discriminate against Atheist for having a differing idea. Keep in mind "Atheism" also includes Buddhist, Jains, shinto, tao, crazy "the universe is made of cupcakes on the backs of panda's"s, etc. So these people have religious protections since they can be classified as Atheistic. Remember Atheism is the disbelief in a god so anybody who doesn't believe in a god regardless of other beliefs counts as a Atheist. You can keep trying to hammer on "Atheism is a religion" until your arm is a bloody nub but, repetition doesn't equal correct.
If the legal world were to define religion by only the belief in a god. Some, such as Buddhism, Taoism and Shinto — even Scientology — would be free to be discriminated against. Due to not having legal protections.
[A.D.D. Moment] Why is someone I presume to be a Christian trying to say that Atheism is a religion when that only sets the stage to eviscerate their own?
There is a common belief:
Atheists are bound by no common ideology or belief. An atheist is someone who does not believe in god. Period (remember Atheism also includes Buddhists, Shinto's,etc). Beyond that, things get a little murky. There are the secular humanists, there are logical empiricists, there are existentialists, there are skeptics, nihilists the list goes on. Not all atheists believe in evolution or put their 'faith' in science. Atheists as a whole are bound by a common thread -disbelief- and nothing else.
[A.D.D. moment]If disbelief makes it a religion then everyone who thinks Obama isn't a legal citizen and thus is not allowed to be President also counts as a religion.
There are absolutely no laws:
All religions have a set of laws or regulations ranging from what you can eat to who you may or may not kill or covet. In atheism, this is entirely absent.
There is no Church or Ritual:
The idea of an organized church of atheism in which its rituals are practiced by gatherings of (un)believers is a non sequitur. (Seriously, I shouldn't even have to break it down this far.)
There is absolutely no unified concept of spirituality:
Unlike atheistic religions such as Buddhism, and Jain non-religious atheism has no spiritual credo. Some atheists may consider themselves 'spiritual' (against Buddhists), while a great many do not. Some may feel some sort of connection to nature or the universe while others may feel nothing of the sort.
I suggest you look up the "oceanic feeling" in Civilization and Its Discontents by Sigmund Freud.
There is no scripture:
Christianity has the Bible, Islam the Koran; Judaism has the Torah, Hinduism the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita. Sikhism has the Guru Granth Sahib, Adi Granth (along with Janamsakhis,Dasam Granth). Jains have the Kalpasutra, Agama, Tattvartha Sutra, Sanmatti Prakaran. I could go on but, that is a post in or itself. Atheism has no scripture or sacred text. Darwin's Origin of the Species, while held in high regard by many atheists, doesn't really count.
Atheism has no Clergy:
In addition to having no rituals, atheism has no ritualistic leaders. Unlike virtually every religion known to man, atheism has no anointed hierarchy to lead its 'adherents' closer to the truth. This is not to say that there aren't prominent atheists. There are. But, absent the sacred texts and rituals of religion — not to mention a proper congregation — they do not constitute a priesthood or clergy.
There is no tradition:
Don't even need to explain this one.
There is no founder:
Buddha, Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, L. Ron Hubbard - most major religions have a founding figure or prophet. Atheism has no such figure. You could try to argue that old timers like Galileo who rose to prominence are the founders but, you'd still be wrong. Atheism has no founders and that is all there is too it.
There Are No Holidays
Most religions have holy days (still, despite the all-out assault on Christmas). Atheism has no holidays, and no framework to decide when such holidays would be or what they might commemorate. Festivus doesn't count.
There Is No Concept of the Afterlife:
Most religions attempt to answer the question of what happens to us when we die. Where do we go to be warmed in the loving embrace of the lord? Where do they go to be horrifically tortured? There's heaven and hell, of course, and reincarnation, nirvana and moksha. Atheists have no concept of the afterlife, except that, most commonly, there isn't one
[A.D.D. Moment] Don't try to say that the common idea of no afterlife counter me own statement. Just because a idea is common amongst a set of people doesn't mean that it's the standard.
There Is No Creation Myth:
Hold on, don't get ahead of yourself. You were probably about to jump and say "How is the Big Bang any less of a myth than Genesis"? Keep in mind that not all atheists believe in the Big Bang theory, it's different because it's a scientific postulate that can be tested and the effects of which can be empirically demonstrated. If in the end this theory does not stand up to scientific scrutiny, it will be chucked on the trash heap.
So, atheism shares none of the characteristics common to all belief systems commonly known as religions. Even widely-despised and derided belief systems like Satanism, Wicca, paganism and Presbyterianism are religions by these standards. Atheism is not. Arguing that it is means that faith in god, ritual, community, tradition, spirituality and theology are irrelevant. Religion then becomes an incredibly paltry thing. It is not a source of solace and spiritual wonder; it is not a vehicle for bringing symmetry to the chaos of life and meaning to the void - it's just the act of taking a position on the existence of god. That's it.
Now for those who wouldn't want to trash their own religion in hopes of sticking it to those damn Atheists. They have another argument and that is "Atheism is Faith". This is due to the convoluted nature of the supernatural because the existence of god can be neither definitively proven nor disproved, atheism merely replaces faith in god with faith in science. This is a much subtler argument but, none the less still poisons the well for everybody.
There is a fundamental difference between Atheism and Faith that cuts to the core of what religion is. Faith involves the belief in a god but, not only that it goes much, much farther. Faith is the trust in god and the acceptance of paradox and contradiction. It reveals the "revealed" truth as all truth and from there embraces the unknown. Science is not anathema to faith; it simply operates on a different plane of thought.
A common error is that atheists merely put their faith in secular 'gods' and call them by another name. Richard Dawkins, Darwin and Carl Sagan. But whether an atheist is drawn to the ideas of these men or to Nietzsche or Frank Costanza, it is not proof of 'faith'. Lots of people are admired, from the aforementioned thinkers to Ronald Reagan and Milton Friedman. We sometimes even use religious language and talk about how they are 'idolized' figures. But there is a difference between agreeing with someone or admiring them and having religious faith in them.
Now you can stop with the defense of "The law says it therefore it is". The only reason they even gave it that definition is so narrow minded theists couldn't discriminate against Atheist for having a differing idea. Keep in mind "Atheism" also includes Buddhist, Jains, shinto, tao, crazy "the universe is made of cupcakes on the backs of panda's"s, etc. So these people have religious protections since they can be classified as Atheistic. Remember Atheism is the disbelief in a god so anybody who doesn't believe in a god regardless of other beliefs counts as a Atheist. You can keep trying to hammer on "Atheism is a religion" until your arm is a bloody nub but, repetition doesn't equal correct.
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Personal definitions:
-grouping of people believing in the same aspect and philosophy of God.
-something that, personally, keeps us away from the said God.
-something that can further divide itself and fight against others or among the same group.
"When two or more gather in His name, God dwell in their midst."
But when two or more gather and quarrel about God's name, something beyond evil surfaces.
-grouping of people believing in the same aspect and philosophy of God.
-something that, personally, keeps us away from the said God.
-something that can further divide itself and fight against others or among the same group.
"When two or more gather in His name, God dwell in their midst."
But when two or more gather and quarrel about God's name, something beyond evil surfaces.
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I like to think of religion along the same lines as a club or organization. It is there for people who share common beliefs or interests to associate with one another.
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I got a few definitions of religion:
Religious: The worship / belief in a deity / event etc. I included event, as most religions claim that a certain event will take place and are anticipating / fearing it.
Social: A way of collectively gathering to perform certain rites and trying to establish a connection between each other by doing so. Sometimes also connected with charity and trying to help those who are in need, however often connected with the attempt to convert them... (as a saying goes: With bacon you can catch mice).
Individual: The need to believe in something during times of need and the attempt to identify yourself with someone or something.
Political: An organization associating with a political organization or being a part of such to influence the citizens into joining said religion.
Religious: The worship / belief in a deity / event etc. I included event, as most religions claim that a certain event will take place and are anticipating / fearing it.
Social: A way of collectively gathering to perform certain rites and trying to establish a connection between each other by doing so. Sometimes also connected with charity and trying to help those who are in need, however often connected with the attempt to convert them... (as a saying goes: With bacon you can catch mice).
Individual: The need to believe in something during times of need and the attempt to identify yourself with someone or something.
Political: An organization associating with a political organization or being a part of such to influence the citizens into joining said religion.