The Best SUBBING Group Out There?!

I remember that there was once a poll (not so long ago before the time warp) where we discussed how we preferred to watch our animes better - with Subs or Dubs, and clearly, the result was so brutal, if my memory serves me correctly, the DUBs got only 2-4 votes against the SUBs' 40 or more. So going straight to the point, g-money just flat out disagreed with my statement that Chihiro Fansubs SUCK (surely you don't actually believe that do you?), :razz: which urged me to make this topic.

Now, if anyone can please answer this questions:
-What's your criteria for judging what subgroup is good and what is not?
-What makes you say that subgroups like Chihiro (for example) is even on par with others like m.3.3.w?
-What subgroups do you think should just call it quits already?
-Name/List the subgroups that you "truly believe" to be GOOD or BAD, that can be justified within your criteria.

Here's mine: (coz I don't feel like elaborating)
Quality of release (video-encoding/audio-timing/sync) - 30%
Translation (grammar/word-usage) - 30%
Regularity of release (weekly/not-once-every-blue-moon) - 30%
Style (font-coloring/opacity/subtitle-placement/additional-info) - 10%

@g-money: you haven't seen the entire ToLoveRU series right? Hmm, so that's why you haven't got a clue. That's basically the first series that Chihiro ever subbed.

They also subbed Sekirei and likewise, their releases were so damn full of anomalies! They can't even get the characters' names and corresponding numbers down together! That's bullshit! (end of my rambling!) :mad:

If you'd ask me why I had to put up with them for those two series, there was simply no other choice. Despite all that, I'm still quite a bit thankful for them of course. It's just that I couldn't stand anyone saying that they're one of the best fansub groups out there... without going through the agony of watching over 30 subbed episodes by them. They're definitely BAD, if not the worst! If they can ever be compared with any other groups, I suppose it would be with Kesanai-subs and the "older" Yuurisan-subs. :lol:

Chihiro (FFS)
+ 13%
+ 10%
+ 22%
+ 5%
= 50% (over a hundred) - speaks for itself!

Thinking about a GOOD subgroup, Eclipse would be the first that comes to mind. They're pretty good at prioritizing their work. They'll only pick up two series at most per season which makes them one of the most outstanding groups as far as "regularity of release" is concerned. They're unlike Shinsen, which I also believe to be one of the best there is, that bites off more than they can chew; ending up with nothing done most of the time. Just look at their project list... :roll: Well, there's still a lot more to mention but I'd rather leave some of those to you guys.

To tell the truth I don't have any strict criteria in choosing a group, only a couple of things I take notice of.

What I usually do is go to anidb or MAL and check the ratings groups subbing a particular show received, trying to choose 2-3 that stand out (provided there are that many). Afterwards I simply compare opinions about the selected ones, my personal experiences (provided it's an older group) and file details.

H264 coding is a must these days so I ignore xvids if I have a choice. The thing that often irritates me is having no control over the filesize and releasing 400 MB large standard episodes (the fuck am I supposed to store it !?) so I try to skip on those as well. It's simply nice if a version you watch is the one you deemed worthy of storing.

I also like it when a group doesn't try to over-complicate the translated sentences making them unnecessarily long. Nothing against a broad and rich vocabulary but subs like that are sometimes harder to follow. Especially when the font choice prioritizes style over readability.

As for my personal favs (just a few examples off the top of my head):

- KAA has always been a symbol of quality for me but doing only DVD rips puts them in a somewhat different category. Still, when catching up on an older show seeing their name is always more than welcome. Flawless DVD quality and the often usage of the best fansubs a series received thus far (after further tweaking them of course) plus skipping on the dual audio makes them the default winner for whatever they release.
- Frostii shines amongst the recently active groups. They're is a fusion of F-B and Ureshi and leave little to complain about. Apart from their speed that is ...
- Eclipse is a group that I often follow due to their choice of shows, guarantee of completion and excellent speed. They are however an example of a group that slightly over-complicates the sentences (something I noticed while closely comparing subs for FMA:B and Geass R2). Still an excellent group though - especially when teamed up with Static-Subs.
- Menclave (another fusion born from the hardcore sex between Mendoi and Conclave) is a group that usually fills all my expectations and many of my stored shows were subbed by them. Glaciers are faster than them however. Very slow and lazy glaciers ...

BTW hermit : Chihiro may have been crap in the past but they really picked up on quality recently. Asura Cryin` comes to mind ...
If you're looking for sub-suicide, check out Ayako (former YaMom) or Desire. Though I'm sure you already have ^_^

I used to be picky with sub groups, but I can't do that anymore. I have an old computer with a small screen and low RAM, and a lot of groups out there now release only in super-duper-ultra-quality-HD or whatever, and that means I have to skip them. I have to search for groups that release videos with dimensions that fit my screen, and most of them time, groups that release in mkv format don't specify the dimensions. Pisses me off.

Anyways, I don't have a strong opinion about any group out there. There are some I like and some I dislike, for whatever reason, but I can't really say that any group is the best or the worst.

I think that Dattebayo gets more shit than they deserve. They're not that bad. They've been regularly releasing for years, which is a lot more than can be said for just about any other group out there. Some groups don't even manage to do an entire 26-episode series, but Dattebayo did two series at once for the longest time, and they never missed a week. They troll, but it's easy to avoid their trolls, and it seems like most groups out there now troll at least a little. And though they may use more cursing than is necessary, I've seen other groups use a hell of a lot more.

@hermitVI: I might not have watched ToLOVEru (I should), but I saw Chihiro's other releases and they're doing a fantastic job. And before I answer your question, I'd rather list the fansub groups I think are great:

First Tier:
Lunar
KickAssAnime (KAA)
Eclipse (+ SS to create SS-Eclipse)
Static-subs (SS)
Shinsen-subs (SHS, not to be confused with SS)
AnimeOne (AonE)
m.3.3.w (+ Bakawolf in joint projects)
Ayako
Conclave-Mendoi
gg (also qq)
Anime-Empire (AE, A-E, a-e)
LIME
a4e

Second tier:
Anime-Kraze (Ani-Kraze)
C1
Ayu
AniYoshi
MinorJaNai (MJN)
Ureshii
V-A
B-A
Chihiro (@hermitVI - do you not watch K-ON or Asura Cryin?)
Coalguys
A-Flux
Kyuu
Triad
zx
umai
Doremi
Yoroshiku
BSS
ax
Froth-Bite
Saizen

I have watched over god knows how many anime for me to be pulling out lost knowledge of fansub groups. More often than not, the history of projects are an important indicator to whether or not this fansub group is the real deal. Other than that, I take a look at an even balance of accuracy, special effects/style, quality of the video encode, and punctuality in descending order of importance.

i'm not to sure, but didn't eclipse sub Code Geass? if they did, they are good, cuz i loved the subs on code geass.

Yes, Eclipse subbed Geass R2, but so did like 20 other groups. You don't actually know who's subs you were watching, do you?

On topic:
Fav. Groups:
gg (and by association gSS and ggcaust) - because of their work on Code Geass and Eden of the East and because they have koda.
Eclipse - One of the few groups that don't participate in subbing drama, asking for donations, or asking for more tlers, editors, timers, etc.
CoalGuys - because they're so coal for wrapping up Toradora! and doing K-ON!.
a.f.k. - I watched Haruhi and Despair-sensei with them.

Yeah, I know ... not real criteria, but as far as I'm concerned, if the subtitles don't make my eyes bleed and the translation doesn't read awkwardly, I think the group is fine. It's not like I can gauge the accuracy of their subs since I don't know Japanese.

I used to love Triad, but since they've essentially stopped subbing, I don't give a damn about them. It's one thing to be a week or two behind, or to drop a show even though it's popular, but not releasing a single episode for four months is ridiculous. Especially when each episode is only fifteen minutes long.

If another Fukumoto series comes out, they may start subbing again, and I might fall in love again, but I don't expect much from them.

However, I'd still suggest their completed series to anybody. Very good quality.

@g-money: WTF! I didn’t tell you to list down every single fansub group that there is! Wait, are you aware that Anime-Keep, ANBU, and LIVE-EVIL subs aren’t on your list? (Kuro-Hana was rather short lived, but I’ll never forget them for subbing HSDK and Death Note.) No offense but for some reason, I really lol’d while reading your post. Well, I definitely now have a pretty good idea as to where you’re coming from – you watch way too much crap. (consider it a joke but feel free to take it however you like) :razz:

There are certainly some things that I'd like to disagree with but meh. It’s like trying to convince a hungry wild tiger, chewing on your foot, to eat the person who’s trying to help you instead; it’s never going to work.

As for me saying that Chihiro is bad, that statement is totally based on my first hand experience with their earliest works (ToLoveRU & Sekirei). That’s how much of a big deal “first impressions” are for me. Even if I do admit that they’re doing somewhat better these days, the “negatives” wouldn’t just go away that easily. (- > +).


Which only proves that you've got no idea what Chihiro was like not so long ago... To see is to believe bro. I just cannot accept the fact that you labeled Chihiro as one of the best subgroups out there without even knowing their history. That's all there is to it.


You've said it yourself.

Btw, you don't necessarily have to watch ToLoveRU (TV series). Just watch its OVAs. It’s guaranteed to be a lot better, albeit shorter. (2eps are out, 1 more left to go)

Now, to answer that damn rhetorical question... Yes, I do watch both K-ON! and Asura Cryin’. But why the hell should I wait for Chihiro if CoalGuys (which isn’t really that different – even in the order in which you’ve listed them) can release K-ON!’s episodes in a much earlier date? The show itself isn’t really anything much where subtitling/translations are that important anyway. AC on the other hand is something that’s kinda difficult to get a feel for, thanks to its absurd plot wherein in one minute, the characters are killing each other and within the next, they’re all back to having a mutual understanding. Heck, ever since the start of the series, there hasn’t even been one casualty yet.

@Shaggy: I agree with you to some extent. Dattebayo isn’t bad but the series that they've chosen to sub are - Naruto(dropped), Bleach... bleh. Only Genshiken really stood out for me.


^This... was hilarious! :lol: (No doubt you're referring to DMC - Detroit Metal City)

@Das: Didn’t you already drop that AC shit? :roll:

About KAA, my memory seems to be failing on me but I do know that I've got a few issues with their subbing and style. When it comes to "oldies", I tend to go with a4e, unless of course only KAA has whatever series it is that I've got in mind.


I did watch those series from a.f.k. as well. Too bad, they never managed to finish the entire SZS series. I doubt they'll resurrect for the upcoming 3rd season but I'd certainly be glad if they would. :D

I most definitely have. Just an opinion based on the 4 eps I managed to watch.




A.f.k dropping season 2 of SZS was hella unpleasant. Finally got around to watching it some time ago and the quality drop (not the visual one) I was forced to suffer after ep 4 was almost unbearable.
An awesome group BTW, obviously putting shitloads of work to their few selected projects. Kinda like Triad in that sense and even though both tended to release xvids rather than h264s I still loved them.
Seeing both inactive for nearly a year seems to make the past tense appropriate. For shame ...


Dattebayo, gg and a4e are groups I try to avoid if presented with a choice. For different reasons...

I forgot about those three, but I’d consider them second tier groups. I only took a cursory glance at the anime in my terabyte drive, not those in my DVD binders. Also, no offense taken, but I don’t watch crap.



I did. Would you expect fansub groups to be at their best at the very beginning? You’ve missed out many other recent projects in their name, like Akikan!, Asu no Youchi, Minamike Okaeri, Ikkitousen, etc. You've watched one or two series by Chihiro then written them off as one of the worst fansubbing groups. Honestly, I’m the one who feels like I’m talking to a wall, and you need to lighten up on what counts for acceptable. This is coming from a person who has watched over 300 anime series and is usually level-headed about anime and tolerant of almost every genre there is. To me, Coalguys is beginning to shine, but even the Toradora subs didn’t impress me too much with their occasional typing/translating errors and typesettings. Why settle for a 175MB xvid episode when I can get a h264 at 90MBs? (I'm talking K-ON episodes.)



It wasn’t a rhetorical question, lol. I watch Chihiro-subbed K-ON because I consider their subbing work to be better than Coalguys if only by seniority and their video encodes and size are best for me, who’s always strapped for hard drive space.