suggestion?

Or at least someone trustworthy who can spend a great deal of spare time on Fakku.

I think users is a pretty cool guy. eh basically middle fingers current mods and doesnt afraid of anything...

As far as I know Gambler doesn't have time for what you propose; he is one of the moderators with the least amount of free time to spend here. Going to point out as well your trust is not exactly a requirement in any of this. Also, crumbling dam? You're being over dramatic again; Fakku is fine.

edit: Is this thread really about a lack of oversight for moderators or was it to get a list of rules which are followed to the letter and standardized punishments? I still don't see how we mods are at fault; your only valid point was about ban's (which moderators can't control).

I would agree with that being overly dramatic, but Fakku isn't "fine" either. I don't know the extent, but there is definitely something not quite right with how everything is handled. Things need to be uniform amongst the staff and it isn't. Just because the moderators don't have the power to ban users doesn't mean they should just ignore offenders as it appears happens from time to time.

I understand every mod has a different personality, but the way things are handled need to be at least somewhat uniform. Some mods are strict towards de-railing, racism, flaming; while some of them jump right into the "fun" and seemingly do nothing about it.

Fine, I'm not here, nor is it my place, to judge what a moderator thinks really needs to be punished and what needs to just be laughed away, but at least let it be universal throughout Fakku.

Otherwise you could run into situations like "Oh, I better not say that here, but if I go to forum X then moderator Y won't care." What kind of precedence does that demonstrate? Anything but an effective one. Then again, like stated before, it is up the members to go to Jacob with things like that if they feel something is being ignored.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic. I understand the staff have their own lives to attend to, and even the staff want to unwind sometime and don't want to visit Fakku just to handle the day-to-day grind that their position entitles, but that can't excuse some of the things that have happened on Fakku as of late.

Hence why I stated




Anyways, sorry it was the best analogy I could come up with after being up all night driving in near blinding rain. He's more like a cartoon cat playing whack-a- mouse like the old Saturday morning cartoons.



The oversight is to make you follow the rules. Like I've said, I've reported things that broke the rules and you or the Globals have dismissed my claim or ignored and deleted it. Unless the report was about a thread in serious that belonged in random or Ib then you guys are pretty on the ball.

When I report something it's because it violates a literal interpretation of the rules as Raze has laid out. Every time I'm ignored, I or zig have to contact Jacob, enlighten him to the offending post. Each time I have alerted him, he took action. You may not being able to ban but, you can certainly delete posts.

Who knows how many legit complaints are simply deleted by mods that Jacob would normally take care of if he had the time. I'm at the point where I'm considering simply skipping the report button and going directly to Jacob. At least something will get done then if not just raising the ire of Jacob.

That seems a little antagonistic though. Not everything has to be taken so literal.

I get the opinion that on most sites (Fakku included) that the rules are more of a guideline, than Commandments set in stone. It is up to the moderators to figure out whether an infraction is really something that needs attention or not. I do agree that a portion of the time they aren't giving it the attention they deserve.

It seems like this topic isn't going to be settled until Jacob takes the time to "lay down the law" so to speak. I'm starting to feel like this is becoming more of an issue related to a lack of communication than lack of oversight.

I don't believe the issue of lazy (not going to beat around the bush here) moderators is all that much of a concern on Fakku, yet. Like waar pointed out, none of us really knows the process of staffing this site, but I can't help but wonder if sometimes that story isn't a cop-out for moderators.

When the rules say



That's pretty straight forward. If the post is insulting towards a users religion, race, etc then delete it. There was an thread quite some time ago with a user named Carthaginian and in the end several users drove him off after a debate over religion. They generally weren't being insulting but, the users were pushing the rules. Some of the users deserved a pm because how vicious they were being towards his religion.



Been one or two of these that were left to run their course while the mods joined in.



This is the vaguest rule we have which has been brought up several times by various users including waar and some others I can't remember off the top of my head. We as a community have been trying to have a set definition or at least a general consensus as what counts as what. Like the United Nations, the only conclusions we could come to is either a vague and abstract idea or that we can't agree on a set definition.

There is a different side to everyone of those rules.

In that case let's delete every topic about Atheism because that apparently insults a great number of Christians that are on this site. Let's get rid of the topic about legalizing marijuana because that is a reference to a potentially harmful drug.

You may call that being overboard, but when I think of the tone and seriousness you are treating the rules that is the stuff I think up. They are just guidelines. Every single post regarding the rules have their own situation. That is why we have moderators in the first place instead of some type of automated system that deletes every post or bans every person that breaks the rules. There are multiple circumstances involved.

I'm not trying to condone breaking them, but taking too serious an approach to the rules can be just as disastrous as ignoring them entirely.

You have a point. I think we can set a reasonable limit on what falls on what side of the line. Jacob would never allowed fakku to become some sort of cyber police state but, we can tighten the rules a little.

Edit: With oversight of the mods we can make sure they are enforcing the rules evenly. Even police departments have an "internal affairs" department.

No I agree.

I'm sorry. I just re-read what I wrote and it kind of came off insulting, or at least insinuating that you were going for some sort of dictatorial approach.

I've just never have good experiences with forums that were so hellbent by their rules. They usually either cause me to leave or I watch the site collapse in on itself.

Hm .. So if that's how it is, I have this to say:

All "LOL LOLICONS R PEDOS LOL!" threads should be removed and the OP's banned - As a Lolicon, I feel this is harassment and it personally offends me. I 100% guarantee you that every Lolicon on this forum will agree with me.

Going to read everything else later but I just wanted to reply to the "you can delete posts" bit. If we delete the post (if it isnt a thread but simply an offensive post) then there is no proof a rule was ever broken. If i were to delete a post with racial or offensive slurs there would be nothing for one of the admins to review... it would be like it never happened. The system allows me to move entire threads to trash bin, but I cant move specific posts. You don't know the system well enough to tell me how to do my job, please avoid doing so.

edit: Just going to add that this thread is about two separate topics; moderator oversight and the enforcement of rules. You've made a home here on Fakku, you've been here long enough to know how things work, how they have always worked. Fakku has always been on the loose moderation side of forums; in fact Jacob once old me he hates moderation and censorship in most of its forms, what makes you think Fakku needs your kind of change? You both maintain that Fakku is in need of some sort of help because "its a sinking ship"... it's no different than it has ever been, the exact same problems being talked about by new people over and over like the last generation never had to deal with the same problems. There never has been a golden age, you're simply acting like an oldfag who believes the previous generation was better than the current one. Fakku has always been lax on moderation, has always had moderators interpret the rules as they see fit, and a certain amount of lawlessness. Why change a working system? It's really not as broken as you think.

As far as oversight goes we already have a form of it FPOD, not to the extent that you seem to wish for but I know for a fact that both admins watch what we do fairly closely (I've been told a few times to tone down posts and that I did something wrong when say moving a thread). Hypothetical situation: gamb can't do it (assuming) who else do you think is appropriate? Do you have another idea that doesn't count on a specific member giving up a larger portion of his time?

Couldn't you simply edit the post with "Edited due to violations" or something like that? That way, people would know that the post in question was reviewed by someone.

the point is no one will ever be punished for the offensive act because the admins are the only two who can punish someone.

At this point any report that i receive calling for a ban on anyone in my section I pretty much ignore until Matt or Jacob look at it; if it gets deleted before that then I can't tell you who did it.

Were there a place that kept old reports, what they said, and who deleted them then it would be much simpler to track down why something was deleted.

I disagree with the thought of it not being as broken as you think, and I can't agree with the interpretation of the "lawlessness" but who am I to argue with how Jacob wants to run things.

As for the last point, there is surely someone that can be trusted who can handle that regardless of the extreme time and dedication necessary.

how about the two people who already have that job... the admins?

well, make that 3, since Raze is still an admin. XD

true, my apologies to razelol.

Well yeah, but obviously Jacob and Matt are busy with other things too. I'm just saying there are surely members on here who are trusted by Jacob and Matt who can devote a great deal of time on Fakku.

Not everyone is going to school, going to work full-time, and otherwise having many of their own personal activities they must attend to, at least at present. Those kind of people might be very helpful.

as far as I can tell the three staff members who have the most time to dedicate to fakku (right now and excuse me if I am wrong about this) are Matt, Teclo, and myself. The list is entirely based off of my personal interactions so I have no real idea how much Kaimax or Klown spend here.

edit: Tegumi also seems to have some time on her hands.