I miss my loli ~n~

I NEED COMFORT!!! ;m;

The loli tag is back up, so you should be happy again.

Erm... *just took a look* though it's in the books and subscriptions.

Eh, no loli worth a thing from fakku books in the foreseeable future. Maybe when they do Henreader.

They've already released some loli chapters in the subscriptions. Hanafuda has loli in it and was released and more will come with it in the future they just have a lot of other stuff they're trying to release along with that genre.

I know about Hanafuda, it's one of those things good to look at. Henreader is on a different level, or it serves a different purpose.

you are in loli rehab remember? Don't go back to those dark ways

I didn't choose the loli-life, the loli-life chose me.
And i can only hope for more loli content on this site. I've purchased whatever books i feel had loli content, or pettanko close enough that it counted to me, but i'm hoping for more. it is sad when the loli tab is the most empty tag with so many subscribers. If there is loli there will be my money.

I was sort of hoping it was gone for good. I'm not saying I think its morally objectionable/disgusting. Its just too much of a legal gray area in the US. I mean who wants to spend years of their life in prison, with nasty sounding record when they get out all for looking at a drawing of a pubescent anime girl over the internet? Let's just stick with pettanko women(18-40), and be safe until the laws are less murky.

IF it wasn't legal then jacob wouldn't publish it or have it on the site. Unlike JAST usa... Jacob isn't a pussy.

The issue is that legality is not clear cut. I've read many rulings, wiki's, and post to try and understand this. To say the least, I cannot find it spelled out one way or another.

Below is from the justice.gov website (page 49-51)

http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/usao/legacy/2006/12/18/usab5407.pdf


"VI. Conclusion
The successful prosecution of Dwight Whorley demonstrates how innovative employment of obscenity statutes, in conjunction with a thorough computer forensic analysis, can be used to contain a dangerous individual and help ensure the safety of the children in our
communities. Section 1466A allows federal prosecutors to pursue all cases involving visual depictions of minors engaging in sexually explicit conduct regardless of how those visual depictions were produced. Accordingly, not only should federal prosecutors use the statute to prosecute cases involving cartoons, as in Dwight Whorley's case, but they should also consider using the statute to prosecute cases that may be difficult to
prosecute under 18 U.S.C. §§ 2252 and 2252A, for example, where it may be difficult to establish that the children depicted in the images are real."

Other opinions:

http://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/is-lolicon-illegal-in-california--1709408.html

Basically fictious works are not the same as real works. Also people don't seem to understand that loli/shota is not directly related to the age rather the appearence and certain characteristics associated with it. There are a lot of anime/manga characters termed as "lolis" that are much older then they "appear".

The reason this is such a grey zone is two reasons, one this is fiction and two there is no correlation that such material is related to what people fear it relates to pedophilia. Just because people like loli based works doesn't mean they like anything past the fictious 2D shit. Also in most court cases involving any form of loli the charges were either dropped or they were arrested for precious misdemeanors actual illegal crimes such as real child porn.

Now if you have a work where a person looks much older then their age (they look like they are in their 30s yet they are stated explicitly to be under 12 years of age) would them engaging in risqué situations be considered wrong? Just a hypothetical question, but I make the point that again this is fiction.

I agree, and it appeared in my reading that the cases harshly prosecuted also involved real child pornography as well.

I personally don't feel this content is morally wrong, or that we shouldn't be able to enjoy. The issue I have is that it is unclear, and as a paying subscriber I'm more likely to be prosecuted for it. My name/credit card are attached to this account, what it has access to, and maybe even a record of the material I've viewed. One thing I like about this site is that it is https, and it cost about $25k in electricity to power the servers that can break a certificate. That means we have some reasonable security on this site, but we have no guarantees that if the DOJ comes knocking on Jacob's door he won't give them everyone's information.

The depicted age issue is always in question. If you see a school girl manga where the girl is petite, can you tell if she is an older looking 13 year old middle schooler or a younger looking 19 year old university student? The age is not given, so we legally "assume" she's +18 since she could be (some plausible deniability). Still its logically harder to defend a loli where the girl looks 8-9, has prepubescent body, and is wearing clothing typical of little girls. If you stood before a judge/jury which image is more likely to get you convicted?

The other thing is that the US laws are annoyingly fragmented. Even if at federal level we could say this is pornographic fiction that is allowable, that doesn't mean it passes state, county, or local laws.

Still its an interesting conversation to have. I'd actually like to know Jacob's thoughts on the legality issue as well. Maybe he possesses some information to smooth over the legality questions since he's publishing them.

Basically he wouldn't publish loli if he found he couldn't do so.

And the problem with them persecuting loli in the states is the fact that they've been publishing loli material for a while now. Yes a lot of it has been more tame then hentai, but the fact is if the US will allow only certain things, why are other things considered wrong?

I do believe actual child pornography or instances where actual children are involved directly is wrong, but when something is fictional and is just put on paper there is a difference. If a person is wanting to commit crimes they could have looked at this material, but the content itself doesn't create criminals. The greatest example is when people blame sex in social media creating sex offenders or violent videogames creating murders. Yes these people may have indulged in these activities, but they would have done what they did due to other extraneous factors way beyond a game or a tv show. If people want to do something they will do it regardless of the influences, but these can just emphasize it.

Most of us that like loli are just weebs that grew up with cartoons as a kid, but we grew up, the cartoons did not lol.

There is this one thing I've been thinking about when it comes to this:

Is it accurate to say that one of the purposes of porn is to invite you into a world of sexual taboos (sort of speak)? In real life we are held back by morals and taboos that prevent us from exploring certain types of sexual desires. But in porn (and especially in drawn porn) those boundaries are shattered and you are allowed to venture into these taboos and discover sexual desires that you may not even know you have. Or perhaps more loosely defined: you are presented with a sexual scenario that normally wouldn't happen or be permitted, and you either derive pleasure from it or you don't.

This could be anything really. Anything from having sex with the most beautiful human in the world, having sex in public, having sex with an alien creature, being a masochist, etc. So with loli/shota is the fantasy then to have sex with a child? If so then what exactly is the pleasure derived from it?

NOTE: I'm not saying this to suggest that reading lolicon/shotacon makes you a pedophile! I enjoy some of that stuff too, I'm just curious why so many people love it so much despite the controversy.

It's fictional pure and simple. I have anime characters I like and to me they are not real. I grew up liking more petite and moe characters, just like I love the sexy older lady types and the yandere girls, the tsundere, the tomboy, etc. just because you can enjoy loli type characters doesn't mean that is all you enjoy as a weeb. I don't read loli just go see a young kid get fucked, most of the time it is the art and story I am enjoying. I know age difference couples is fun for me to read about so teacher and student is great.

Anyways, yes a person that is sexually attracted to children irl could read this material, but not everyone enjoys reading loli with that in mind. Just like people that read tentacle rape want to fuck squids, or people reading incest want to fuck their sibling. It's not normal sex in all cases, but not everyone who reads these types of bizzare works read them because their a sexual deviant that wants to do something taboo. They just don't mind it being odd and enjoy the story, art, sec scenes, etc.

The people that take such things to an unhealthy level are ones that have had issues prior to any form of compulsive indulgence in their poison of whatever it is they are into. A person that is into raping did not just pick up a book and decide this was what he wanted to do, same with a pedophile. They may enjoy things related to their obsession, but the work did not create the desire.

Also take this from a person that has actually had sex. Not everything you read is what you will enjoy doing. When I say I have a fetish for certain things in hentai, I know for myself it's more about what I enjoy reading. What I actually enjoy irl does not reflect all of my reading tastes. I like tan lines but don't irl, like loli but don't like kids in that way irl. I like older men with younger women because I like dating older, like S&M because I do find that more fun irl.

I always tell people until you try something out (within reason, as I said things that are illegal that you have a compulsion to do is crossing lines), it's not a true fetish. Can still call it that because you're fascinated with it to an extent, but the real fetishes/interests see the ones you enjoy in your personal life. I've known people that said they like feet or doing anal, but till they actually did the deed they sometimes decided it wasn't really for them, they built it up in their minds.

So you're saying that it has more to do with taste in erotic fiction than psychosexual desires? If so then I'd say that sounds like a more reasonable take on it. I think that some people do genuinely believe that taste in erotic fiction is a 100% reflection of your sexuality, so if you like to read loli/shota manga then these people will label you a potential pedophile.

However, one thing that I've heard people say is that anyone who is a fan of little-sister themed hentai doesn't have a younger sister in real life, so they just fantasise about having one. I'm skeptical towards that because I'm a fan of big-sister themed hentai, but I have an older sister in real life. Does that mean I want to have sex with her? GOOD FUCKING GOD NO!! I think it has more to do with that I find the idea of a more mature female to be appealing, and that's about as harmless as me falling head over heels for Naruto. There's just something in that story that resonates with me.

If our sexual desires were based solely on what we read then there would be a lot less squids and octopuses in the world.

As you said you don't want to fuck your sister even if you read incest stories so by reading them some people assume you have some latent desire to fuck your sibling. People that assume just because you read something you're into something taboo isn't the case. The taboo element is enticing to read since as you said we cannot ethically practice some of this, but it's the same as playing a shooting game. Ethically it is wrong to shoot people and not everyone wants to actually experience handling guns in action but to be able to play a shooting game, it's fun to do for fantasy sake. Imagination is fun to have and to enjoy the fantasy of something does not mean you have a desire to practice something. I think about wanting to fly, would be cool if it could happen, but I don't jump out of my window thinking the power of pixie dust will make that happen. That has to be some good pixie shit to get someone to do that and if you're alive to tell the tale, a really expensive hospital bill for breaking your neck in the process.

Anyways as I keep saying, fiction is fiction. People like weird shit all the time, but doesn't mean they're fucked up in the head for it. Those that take fantasy too far an become unhealthy with it have more issues then just reading porn.

This is an important point I think. Like you I have a sister, and while I do enjoy some incest themed manga, it doesn't translate over to real life at all for me. I just don't have any interest in my sister, never have and I can't imagine that ever changing.

For me, there is a very clear divide between my real and fictional likes/dislikes. Most of the things I like in porn I enjoy *because* they're a fantasy, many of them I would not do in reality, regardless of the legality/morality of it. It just doesn't interest me the same way as when it's fictional. Even stranger perhaps, much of it would even repulse me in reality.

I wonder if this is why so many people love vanilla.

The thing I said about taboo was largely inspired by manga critics like Shaenon Garrity who seem to have this idea that hentai manga is supposed to be obscene. Which is not to say they dislikes hentai (quite on the contrary), but going by what they have written on the subject they make it sounds as if a hentai manga that's wholesome is not doing its job. I've also heard the word vanilla be used in the context of comedy that is mild and inoffensive. It's a widely held belief that in order for comedy to work someone must be offended, in the sense that if someones pride isn't shattered then it won't be effective comedy. So by that definition vanilla comedy is comedy that still works but hardly shatters any pride.

If the same thing is true for hentai then you might assume that vanilla wouldn't be so popular, but it is (at least here on FAKKU, I don't know about other places). I've been thinking about this and one theory I have is that people love it because they can relate to it more easily. It's fun to read an erotic scenario that shouldn't or couldn't happen in real life, but if it's something that's not only possible but also fulfilling in real life then people find more happiness in projecting themselves on that scenario. But it could also simply be that people find their erotic fiction more rewarding if there is a romance to go with it, and of course this can be applied to a more edgy or bizarre scenario (as I learned from Yamatogawa's Withcraft). Part of me wonders if this reflects a more sex-positive mindset with people, that they no longer think of sex as something you take from another but rather as something you dive into with gutso and enjoy together.