2008 Olympics- Tibet & China
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Ramsus wrote...
SleepyOne: I'm a little insulted that you would just assume from what little I said that I was such a close minded person. I simply have a more pessimistic attitude about the way the universe operates. This includes disagreeing with The Jesus that going back to living naturally (at least as far back as he's talking about anyway) would do us any good. Humans have simply artificially evolved ourselves through technology too much for this to work, unless you're willing to accept that 60% or more of the human species would die off and as we should all know by now, any plan that you don't have to use to ensure the survival of humanity that calls for such a death toll is a bad plan even if that it the only thing wrong with it due to the choas that is caused by the direct and side effects of that many people dying. At this stage in human evolution it is sadly too late to go back to the way we used to be and our only real choice is to embrace that fact that we are technologically dependent and to slowly change the world around us into a better environment for us to live in.
I apologize for not replying to your whole post. I'm kind of pressed for time so I'll just address this part right now.
I don't really think that such a significant portion of the human race dying off would be all that bad. I believe I mentioned in a post on another thread about the way the human population has grown far beyond what it should be. This is, in part because of the technology issue. We've managed to phase out the majority of the conditions and such that controlled our numbers in the past. I am going to sound like a horrible person, but the infant survival rate in any condition is way too high. Not only that, but there are people in this world that are suffering beyond what they should be. Death really isn't so bad that we have to prolong the life of someone who is suffering. Its also due to greed that we can't let go of people who we love that are in pain. Life support is one of the most horrible things and to see anyone on it is horrible. Natural disasters aren't as bad as people think. Yeah, they're tragic, but I always say, its just mother nature catching up with the human race. I won't bring religion or anything into the picture because that's a whole other issue, and I'm not necessarily a religious person. That being said, our attempts to play God is an affront to nature itself.
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The Jesus wrote...
I apologize for not replying to your whole post.Gah, please don't. I went on WAY more of a rant than I wanted to. I don't really think you're a bad person at all btw, though I still stand by my view of things.
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Well i think we've all digressed from the orginal topic quite a bit but i find the discussion interesting anyway.
I agree that the human population is maybe growing far to large but the fact is the only two solutions are to increase the death rate or decrease the birth rate- and of course the only humane option would be the latter.
It would be beyond barbaric, and personally I think we still have quite a bit more to think about right now than overpopulation. We've got too many other problems to sort out and it seems most of the issues in the MIddle East and Africa are almost overlooked in favour of the much more population pre-Olympics scandal.
Anyway I see nothing really wrong with continuing at the current rate, after a high birth rate usually follows ageing populations which should eventually drop down. Even China with its huge 1.3+ billion population faces population issues- too many males as compared to female. There more populated nations then end up falling into a decline with a negative natural increase, even New Zealand is on the verge of an ageing population.
So to cap it off I think its still too early about going back to nature and living without technology. Certainly we place a large stress on the environment and the recent global food crisis proves this but I wouldn't give up on humanity yet.
I agree that the human population is maybe growing far to large but the fact is the only two solutions are to increase the death rate or decrease the birth rate- and of course the only humane option would be the latter.
It would be beyond barbaric, and personally I think we still have quite a bit more to think about right now than overpopulation. We've got too many other problems to sort out and it seems most of the issues in the MIddle East and Africa are almost overlooked in favour of the much more population pre-Olympics scandal.
Anyway I see nothing really wrong with continuing at the current rate, after a high birth rate usually follows ageing populations which should eventually drop down. Even China with its huge 1.3+ billion population faces population issues- too many males as compared to female. There more populated nations then end up falling into a decline with a negative natural increase, even New Zealand is on the verge of an ageing population.
So to cap it off I think its still too early about going back to nature and living without technology. Certainly we place a large stress on the environment and the recent global food crisis proves this but I wouldn't give up on humanity yet.
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Well, I'm a bit late to the party, but whatever, I like this topic.
First off, since I don't think anyone has commented on Taiwan (sorry to anyone who did), but I would believe Taiwan is part of China. One of those previous governments just moved to Taiwan and set about claming that they were the true government of China after being ousted. Someone likened this situation to the Civil War in the US, and put forth a hypothetical question that; if the Confederates, after being defeated moved, for example to Florida, and declared themselves the true US government, wouldn't the country want the state back?
I don't fully agree with the way China took over Tibet, but the Chinese did exercise suzerainity or some sort of power over them way back in the 18th century. It's still a problem determining who is right and wrong, and what exactly to do with Tibet.
In any case, think of what will happen if China leaves Tibet. Answer: the USA will build a military base there. It would shift the balance of power in that region of Asia, and it would make another world war more likely. The already paranoid countries would be pushed closer to the edge, and chaos isn't too far off if people decide to riot.
Anyway, it's still a bad idea to make China move on this right now. Once the current Dalai Lama is gone, the next one that comes along will have nowhere near the same standing and so China will win anyway. Just got to respect that man though.
Ah well, now to let you get back to your new topic. Rip apart my argument if you will, but I still stand by my views. And now, for something completely different...
First off, since I don't think anyone has commented on Taiwan (sorry to anyone who did), but I would believe Taiwan is part of China. One of those previous governments just moved to Taiwan and set about claming that they were the true government of China after being ousted. Someone likened this situation to the Civil War in the US, and put forth a hypothetical question that; if the Confederates, after being defeated moved, for example to Florida, and declared themselves the true US government, wouldn't the country want the state back?
I don't fully agree with the way China took over Tibet, but the Chinese did exercise suzerainity or some sort of power over them way back in the 18th century. It's still a problem determining who is right and wrong, and what exactly to do with Tibet.
In any case, think of what will happen if China leaves Tibet. Answer: the USA will build a military base there. It would shift the balance of power in that region of Asia, and it would make another world war more likely. The already paranoid countries would be pushed closer to the edge, and chaos isn't too far off if people decide to riot.
Anyway, it's still a bad idea to make China move on this right now. Once the current Dalai Lama is gone, the next one that comes along will have nowhere near the same standing and so China will win anyway. Just got to respect that man though.
Ah well, now to let you get back to your new topic. Rip apart my argument if you will, but I still stand by my views. And now, for something completely different...