Can You Be Happy Without Money?

What way is there to measure happiness other than asking someone if he is happy? If one claims happiness, how do you or I tell delusion from truth in that case? People with seeming reason to be happy will sometimes claim misery and people with little seeming reason to be happy will sometimes claim happiness.

Furthermore, it doesn't seem like the tendency to chain happiness to something is all that uncommon or especially limited to those of little wealth and few material goods. Maybe an object, a person, a god, success, an ability one has, a combination of things, but I haven't met anyone who doesn't appear to act in this manner. Who really has a type of happiness that can withstand anything and everything being taken from them: status, wealth, beliefs shatter, skills eroded, health gone, etc. People also seem to choose to value something that they are good at or something that connects somehow with success(in the case of the sister, her health and having a decent life). Which of these people are choosing a delusion and which simply have actual happiness?

Why, all of them. We all delude ourselves, incessantly (hence my comment on the fist of Kantianism). I wasn't lashing out at anyone for it.
Of course, chaining your happiness to wealth is just more of the same. Money, beyond its immediate function as a legal tender, is the promise of freedom to do as you please. People crave lucre not because they have a banknote fetish, but because it a) grants status b) allows you the illusion of being able to do whatever you damn well please.

However, the question was, whether one could be truly considered happy if so impoverished that survival itself would become a struggle:

And here I must say that no, I do not believe that people can suffer this stress continuously without it having an impact on their happiness. For someone to remain happy throughout this ordeal, their self-delusion must be extraordinary, for I would surmise it to take some straining to convince yourself that you're happy when you're constantly hard pressed by want of food at the end of a month.

I would like to say "Yes, as long as I still have my girlfriend." But I can't. Main reason being her. She herself does not work, I told her she would never have to, so if she stayed with me if I had no money, we would be living on the street. I could never be happy knowing she was suffering. Now without her, probably not. Technology has become a big part of my life. I honestly don't know what I would do if I had no access to any form of technology.

Fair enough, thanks for the explication. I certainly don't believe that I could be happy if I had so little wealth as to be unable to afford food and shelter. Still, I suppose that means that if someone were able to convince himself sincerely that he was happy in spite of semi-starving and being homeless rather than put on a strong front, then that happiness would be just a real. Whether anyone can do this is a separate question.


To comment on another point that was made earlier: buying things yourself. My most prized material possession is my musical instrument, a flute, which I did not buy myself. It was payed for by my grandmother. Certainly as a musician, I spend a lot of time using it, and it is unique since I had it custom made. Still the fact that my grandmother bought it adds something for me. She was also a musician and always encouraged me, so it took on the sense of a family tradition being handed down. I could never have afforded this particular instrument on my own at this point in my life, but that doesn't really bother me.

By nothing I don't mean you're losing even yourself without money. It's just that you won't be able to do anything, that's all.

I think to actually do something meaningful, you must at least have you survival needs taken care of first. And we need money to do that(assuming you choose to live in a civilized area).

Or if you are saying that people can be happy even without those needs...yeah, their self-deluding ability must be awesome indeed.

Money buys happiness there's no question for that for me. Mostly because my body requires me to eat and drink.. and then for something like fun. I won't be happy without my reading materials like manga. I'd be terribly bored in life.

However if my body was suddenly not needing to eat and drink. Screw the money, it cannot buy happiness. I'd spend my life wandering on the earth just traveling on the foot and having fun. Just doing enough work in place to place to keep my clothes updated and not torn to pieces and transportation across oceans.

Whatever makes this even more perfect would be an communicator from Star ocean. And thus, no language barrier exists XP that way, earth will truly become a free world for me.

I'd agree with Gibbous. The only reason people have been happy without money is because they have found something that they hold higher than themselves. In the end, if you are a self-centered person or have a tough time with empathy then you will not be happy if you're short one money.

this is a interesting thread, to say the least.

Happiness without money? Would you have to be delusional to be happy when your dirt poor? I've actually thought about this before, and I guess my first question would be how we define happiness? Like, simple self contentment, or an active enjoyment of life?

Simple self contentment can be achieved no matter how dire your situation, really. Even if your starving on the side of the road, you can find solace in a few things, such as the fact your still alive, the crispness in the air, all that. People need reasons to be content: rich or poor, your not content for contents sake. Just as wealthy would find contentment with a huge TV, the poor can find contentment with something as simple as a plesant breeze. in that sense, its easier for the poor to be content, which one could argue makes their lives, in general, better.

An active enjoyment of life is different.

See, we have to remember that while money can buy things that make people happy, arguably most of the people of the world has to do things they dont like in order to GET money. I dont know many people who are happy to go to work every day. Sure, they get money, but they waste most of their time and energy getting it, which allows them to live comfortably, but would you call it happily?

The people born rich are actually harder to figure out, mostly because Im not one of them, and I've never met someone who's been born rich. However, from a philosophical standpoint... it would be easy to be happy, but they might not necessarily know it. Born like that, you have everything you need, and possibly everything you want: but happiness is really the enjoyment of your life, and if life has always been easy, then they're pretty much always enjoying it: but sense they've never known hardship, I guess they wouldn't really know they're happy cause they have nothing to compare it too.

People who've worked their way to get rich are probably very happy. They know what its like to struggle and they know that now they have everything they've always dreamed of.

Now, to not having money. Can they actively enjoy life?

My reply: sure, why not?

Happiness is where ever you find it, and People, with the exception of the extremely wise, need to give themselves reasons to be happy. If someone realizes this, then happiness is generally an easy thing to find. Sure, your hungry and cold. But your still breathing. You can still enjoy life, your only life. You can still enjoy sunsets and watch the clouds go by. And it may be a hard life, but its still life, and if you cling to that knowledge, and you happy with that fact, than your happy all around.

I think that most people, especially poor, are sad because they think they're supposed to be, and focus on the bad instead of the good.

but thats just my thoughts.

thanks!

I like this one really well. This is just the way I think. Man is such a stupid thing, if you occupy him, he won't think about anything else (happiness being part of it, of course), and time will go by without him paying attention to it or even realizing it. And I may add this : Man always cares about negative things before positives ones.

First, a definition of happiness would indeed be a nice start. And to distinguish "little good things of life", with "living an harmonious and confy way of life" is needed here.

When smiling when you see the sun rise, or when something great happen to your friend is one of thoses little things that make you happy. And of course, anyone can feel this. Well, it's a personnal feeling and some are more positives than other to "see" thoses happy events, but everyone can, even without money (and maybe more for thoses who don't have, because everything's better than what they have, I guess).

But when it comes to "live in happiness", it's not the same thing anymore. And even when you earn enough to pay the bills, have a decent house, some food, health services and whatever you think is a primal need, living an happy life is not something we can all get. Just an example, if you wished you'd become ... let's say an astronaut, and no matter how hard you tried, you never achieved this life's goal, there will always be something you'll regret in the end. I'm not trying to say that unexpected things are bad, but you'll find plenty reasons to be sad, mad or unhappy about, and you'll always focus on thoses rather than good ones (even love, don't lie to yourself, when you're married for 20 years, I don't think there's much to be still "life happy" about).

About delusion, I think it's mainly true. But I won't say it's a given and all of this is right and true. But somehow, I must admit I envy theses people, being able to see what's good in life before faking to don't notice the bad ones.

And to end this well, let me say that :

Happiness is the ultimate goal of man's life, reaching it has no meaning.

(This meaning that you'll always try to be happy, or happier, and that's why you're so prompt to become unhappy, to enjoy more the happy moments)

Yes, you can, but here's a question:
If you were happy, what would you aim for?

I, personally, find contentment in achieving the next step---doing another pushup, removing another second, learning the next skill, and the like. When I get to where I want to be, will things truly be better?

Hence, poor people being happy, they have a place to go, an dream to hope for.

This is also my explanation for all the unhappy rich people out there, if you have everything you could ever need/want, then what fills your day?



I'm not the best to judge, lower middle class, but I don't think money defines happiness, I think happiness is caused by running like hell from hardship.

Looking back on how much you accomplished. Wouldn't that make you happy?

I'll tell you in forty years.

One can't live a really happy life without money in our current society.
Yes you might be happy to some degree, but I'm sure your happines will fly out of the window the second you find out that you can't support the ones you love (your childern, lover, parents, ...) because you're even having trouble to stimulate your own fundamental needs.


And I think the saying "The ones saying that money is not neccessary for obtaining happines are always those who were never lacking it" is absolutely true.

Heh, thanks for your post, it kinda, soften up the thread. But I'd like to restate, no need to underlook money since, there's skills(example, you need to be good at making products such as farming, processing, money is no good without such products) and relation(you gotta be communicable to negotiate) along with it And still power of money comes from the no money values. Money can't exist without labor, but labor can exist without money, labor is increasable by money.

I've been rich and I've been poor (no, really).

Rich is better.

With money, you can delude better!

No, money equals power equals achievement equals happiness. Its just some propaganda bullshit poor people got told or told themselves.

How exactly does money equal power? It reminds me of how people in the past thought that (physical) strength equaled power. Sure, you can do a lot of things if you have money or strength, but it's not as if either one gives you immutable power that lets you do whatever you want. Even if you have all the money in the world, it won't make everyone respect you or listen to you. It won't make you live longer than any poor person, since accidents and terminal conditions can hit anybody.

Also, it's already been said in this thread, but money by itself does not equal achievement. A lot of rich people are born into wealth, and even if they work hard to keep their vast amount of money, they still don't know what it is like to work hard from the bottom to reach the top.