"Do you swear to tell the truth... so help you God?"
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Oh no, I think my wording confused you. I can give a rat's ass about the "under God" phrase, but I agree that it can be taken off now because there is no thread from them "Reds". Treat it as a ritual, no more, and go on with your life. We've come pretty far as a secular nation, and people should realize that not all things are to be taken at face value, like the "under God" or the "so help you God."
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Spoiler:
I do sympathize with the poor guy that got robbed and now has no chance of seeing justice done, but I also am left wondering why he would take the chance of telling our christian court system that he is an atheist. Our justice system being biased is no secret and he should have already been prepared to lie one time to make sure the thief was punished. However, atheists are not the only ones who face this dilemma; All other faiths in our country have to deal with this. Besides, if this God was actually the kind of guy who would get a major hard-on for justice he would have killed the thief the second he stole. I also bet this thief is still alive today and maybe planning his next heist, and not burnt in the least. And as far as what effect swearing to God has in court; Swear and you will do okay, do not swear and you are setting yourself up to lose.
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To be honest, I would probably just say, "I do" without even thinking of the mention of God. The more time I spend away from my family, who are really the only religious people in my life, or at least the only people religious enough to mention God regularly in ordinary life, the more I notice when people say something about God or some shit. That being said, I'm still fairly used to the commonplace mention of God, and there are certain times you expect it and it doesn't stand out. Court is probably one of those situations. It's like saying, "I swear to God," or "God bless you," or "God's truth." I say these things, and I don't believe in God. Just sayings. And even if I noticed it, I wouldn't care enough to mention I was an atheist. I might sigh slightly on the inside, to the effect of, "lol separation of church and state," or something, but I would just agree and proceed.
I do feel like atheists are discriminated against in certain settings. Most people I'm regularly around don't care one way or the other. The majority of my friends are really agnostic. So I do not ever feel like being an atheist causes me any trouble. But sometimes people react to atheism as though it's a disease that you might give them, or associate a lack of faith in a higher power with a lack of any morality or anything good at all. Like being an atheist makes a person a lowlife. Which seems like what this guy had happen to him.
I don't know, like I said, it's honestly not a big deal to me. And I'm sorry I made that post a little longer than intended.
I do feel like atheists are discriminated against in certain settings. Most people I'm regularly around don't care one way or the other. The majority of my friends are really agnostic. So I do not ever feel like being an atheist causes me any trouble. But sometimes people react to atheism as though it's a disease that you might give them, or associate a lack of faith in a higher power with a lack of any morality or anything good at all. Like being an atheist makes a person a lowlife. Which seems like what this guy had happen to him.
I don't know, like I said, it's honestly not a big deal to me. And I'm sorry I made that post a little longer than intended.
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Well, we are quite lucky we don't have that crap in Germany. Here you just get to know that you have to tell the truth and are only allowed to keep shut up if you'd bring up evidence against yourself.
However if asked, I couldn't probably care less if there is a god or not, heck it is not as if the judge can write him a letter "God did that "he may be a bad guy" guy lie in-front of me while he made an oath not to?" and expect an answer, so most likely I'd say yes and give a crap about that small deception.
However if asked, I couldn't probably care less if there is a god or not, heck it is not as if the judge can write him a letter "God did that "he may be a bad guy" guy lie in-front of me while he made an oath not to?" and expect an answer, so most likely I'd say yes and give a crap about that small deception.
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mibuchiha wrote...
ZiggyOtaku wrote...
What basis does swearing to God really have?Because daddy's wrath is a scary thing. He'll put you in hell if you lied using his name...
ZiggyOtaku wrote...
If you were brought into court and you had to testify for something and happened to be atheist: Would you swear to God? Or would you risk being discriminated against?Lol, I'm an atheist, and I'd still swear the way they want it. People's belief is hard to correct even with sound and valid arguments, so I think it's pointless to tell them "I'm a logic/reason man" in such situations. That's why I'll just swear that way for the hell of it. What I need is my victory, and if adding some meaningless words to my speech helps me achieve my goal, why not?
Hmm...maybe I'll try to tell the judge I'm an atheist after I won the case. I wanna see his face when I do.
edit: and as the commenter-san said, the court system is biased.
haha, like this person. Always has the same idea as myself. As stated, sometimes lying is neccessary, no matter how honest you are.
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gibbous wrote...
What's even more funny is that anyone would believe that adding "under god" grants protection against communists. It's like a medieval spell against frost, or something.
It was actually a method of enhancing the distinction between the Free World and Communism. In most Communist countries all religion was banned and people were forced to practice a form of state worship often labeled Atheism in the west. Since religion was freely practiced in the west it was seen as an obvious symbol which really meant down with Communism rather than all praise god. That's why they also added the phrase to the USD as well in the mid-60's.
And on the whole "so help you god" phrase in the swearing in I have not experienced that in my trips to court. My first time the judge just asked, "Do you swear to only tell the truth." I was actually more shocked as I expected more and took a second to answer. The judge was used to it and just moved on. The other two times as a witness the judge just assumed that I knew to tell the truth and never even swore me in.
If I were asked that full question in court I would probably answer, "So help me Haruhi!"
Not really. Though it would work with the insanity defense.
Seriously, I would just ignore it as SOP and move on with it. And I'm intellectually agnostic.
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Brittany
FAKKU Production Mngr
g-money wrote...
@ZiggyOtaku: my question to you is if one did not believe in God in the first place, on what basis would one be afraid of lying in front of the whole court? I view it as a custom, akin to the pledge of allegiance. I do it to fit in; being a chameleon is necessary under the circumstances without trying to raise a big scene. Oh I wouldn't care either way. My view of it is the court room is so used to this ritual they don't even think twice about saying it. How many times did you drone out and say the pledge in high school?
I do not believe the "Well if you don't want to swear to God then you must be lying!" That makes no sense in my mind. I would kindly reply to them "No, I simply do not believe in a God, I'm not going to lie in order to convince you that I am not going to lie." --If I were to ever get in that situation.
g-money wrote...
@gibbous: people lie anyways, and some can tell that they aren't of the Christian faith. It's a custom, and people since then have long stopped treating it as something unsecular.I don't look like an atheist particularly. If the only evidence they had for me at court against me was "Your honor, based on X website it stakes a claim that she is indeed not religious! So she swore on nothing but thin air and because she does not believe in God she must not have morals!"
Theen... I'm most likely innocent. Because that's a pretty low blow. I would also turn and appeal the ruling by saying the judge was discriminating against me due to the lack of my religion.
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He should have just sucked it up and said it if he doesn't belive in god wont make the word tabbo if you say it.
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Kind of Important
A ray of Tsunlight.
Every time I've actually had to take an oath (That was important anyway.)I've been given the option of replacing the, so help me god part with something else. I had to be in court a few weeks ago, and I was allowed to, 'tell the truth to the best of my ability'. Which I considered odd, considering I live in Texas at the moment, and 90% of the people down here are hardcore religious folk.
When I was sworn in for the Navy, I was allowed to omit "so help me God" And I did. So really, I don't take into consideration the whole god part. If I need to tell the truth I will.
When I was sworn in for the Navy, I was allowed to omit "so help me God" And I did. So really, I don't take into consideration the whole god part. If I need to tell the truth I will.