Fate

Oh, I know and I agree. I was just clearing it up.

Fate/Stay Night

Like Ramsus, I dont believe in 'Fate'.

I believe fate is pre-determine.

However my view of is different, i see fate as a river which can branch into many different flow. Then you will pick the road, and thus fate become an infinte and endless possiblity of we failing and sucsess. Those flow, flow different and is parallel with each route, however when we pick our future, the rest will be erase and again a new flow will be form. So the predeterime path is the endless possibility is built during we choose, but we only know one thing, that we all will die someday or later, so all that flow will agian form into a path. That why fate is something predetermine, if someone found immortally that will throw this statement offtrack

This is only one man view, it wouldn't change much in your fate.

Although I believe in choice #1, its hard to argue against option #2. Anything you do can be chalked up to fate...

For example, lets say Im walking through a park and I see a stroller rolling down a hill toward a lake. Whether I choose to stop the stroller or to ignore it, (I would stop it) you could argue that Im predestined to make the choice the way I do.

Using that logic, there really is no valid argument against predetermination, its just a matter of opinion.

these people are the ones who already gave up in changing their lives to make it successful and they use fate as their reason.
so yeah, most people that believes in fate are either stupid or deluded.


fucking fat

I'm not sure how I missed this thread, but there seems to be quite a few posts against fate, so I suppose I shall play devil's advocate.



Truly, the argument for or against fate has as much or as little bearing as the argument for certainty by Descartes. Which is to say, probably not much, but I am sure the conclusions from any such argument are still useful in some measure as a basis for more meaningful debates. And failing that, at very least they keep me entertained.




By what basis do you conclude that people who believe in fate have given up on success? Why do you suppose that someone who truly believes in fate would have the ability to give up on anything? It seems logical that they could not, anyone who truly believes and understands the ramifications of fate would surely not be so easily discerned.

I am a strong believer in fate, but not in any mystical sense. I believe that everything can be explained by science, and that probability only exists in the unknown. If you knew everything that there is to know about everything at a particular moment, theoretically you could calculate where everything would be in the next moment. And thus, fate must exist. As Einstein said, "God does not play dice".

I don't think I am stupid or deluded, but you are welcome to prove me otherwise.

I believe he said that in denial of quantum mechanics, which concludes, that if god exists, he does play dice with the universe.

Bad logic. Even geniuses use it.

I don't think that very many people really believe in fate that way. I've had lots of debates on fate, and the vast majority of people that I have talked to don't believe in fate. Ignorant people are much more likely to turn to god and religion than fate for an explanation, because religion has a happy ending. Fate... the reality of fate kinda blows on the wishful thinking scale.

It's true that Einstein said that in denial of quantum mechanics, but he was not a believer. The quote is more correctly interpreted as "Physical laws should not depend on probabilities on a fundamental level". Well, as far as we knows, we sure have lotsa probabilities still.

Hmm .. talk about fate ....

1) fate is an excuse that people usually blame when something isn't going out just like what he/she want

2) fate is something that's your decision ...
my theory is, someone cannot really change his/her fate but all decision in his/her life are optional ..
choose this --> output 1
choose that --> output 2
in short, i still thought that fate was decided by us .. there is no need to blame fate for this and for that ...

well, just my two cent

Fate is the abscense of individuality. Henceforth people blame it for mishaps or misteps.
~~>Option2a
~>option 1.
~~>Option2b

I think it is interesting that everyone says this about quantum mechanics... they say that if quantum mechanics holds true, it proves the world is not deterministic.

Unless my understanding of quantum mechanics is off though, the probability that these people refer to comes from Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, which states that the more you know about an objects location, the less you know about its velocity. This is of course because in order to measure these things you must interfere with the object in some way (shoot photons at it ect).

Truly, quantum mechanics does not break a deterministic view then, it only proves it is impossible for humans to know everything. Again, feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but the way I understand it, there would be no probability in the theoretical situation where we knew all the attributes of whatever object. As I stated earlier, probability exists only in the unknown.

The only conclusion you can draw from quantum mechanics is that we will never be able to predict our own futures completely, which isn't to say that they aren't still locked in place.

Oh no, I agree with that, it's just that the Einstein quote was pretty off, especially in the context I pointed out which Einstein used it in.

Like yourself, I don't believe in the kind of fate that is made to sound as if there is some intelligence at work, molding our futures; the supernatural kind of fate. I see fate as just another word without any mysticism attached to mean "we are deterministic".


You know that I know that, brah.

You live now for the fate you have in the future. Nothing more, nothing less.

Your second definition of fate sounds like free will. Fate and free will are not really compatible concepts, so your argument doesn't make much sense. Maybe you don't have a very good idea of what fate is?




Ah ok. I have always taken that quote to be a demonstration of Einstein's belief that all things are deterministic. But I admit that I have not really done any reading into the original context.

Also I define fate as a determinism. That is to say, when all of your actions and decisions are predictable. It is interesting to some people that I still believe we actively make decisions, only because the circumstances of those decisions are fixed, there can only be one logical conclusion.

Joe Dirt- " Fate is but what we make "

Uncertainty principle only states that it's impossible to know certain pairs of quantities of a particle (xp and Et) to arbitrary accuracy. It makes no statement about the probability of knowing the particular state of a system. The probability is given by our good old Schro's equation. And the limitation in measuring those quantities is not some experimental limits like you have to use photon to see the particle, but it is about the nature of the system itself. In other words the principle is saying that nature is just fuzzy down there. I don't really buy it, but hey, until I can prove otherwise, meh.



Nah, probabilities in quantum mechanics is not the same as probability in the common sense. Sure, if we know exactly the position of a dice before it's thrown, how it bounces etc we can predict with certainty what number we're gonna get, but for a particle, things are not that simple. The Schrodinger's equation is a perfectly deterministic, in that we can operate on the wavefunctions with absolute certainty. But since wavefunctions are nothing more than an expression of the probability of states of a particle, and they are the most complete description we can have for a system, we're to conclude that quantum mechanics is fundamentally probabilistic. There are simply no theoretical situations where we know everything and need no probabilities as far as quantum theory is concerned.

EPR paper tried to show that quantum mechanics is still incomplete, that is, the hidden variable theory, but so far quantum mechanics is still reigning supreme. We still have to accept that it's just fuzzy down there. XP