Feminisim
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Now before you kill me, let me explain. As you probably already know, extreme feminists in japan have been baning various fetishes. Obviously, to those who enjoy hentai with these fetishes, it is most distressing. But i think some people have gone overboard with there feminisim hate. It seems people have been decrying feminsim as a whole, mostly due to hate of fetishes that some feminsits in Japan have been spouting
Yes, i think this whole banning of fetishes is stupid. But i don't think we should start attacking feminisim because of it. Every group has extremists, and feminisim is no exception. The main reason i disagree with the fetish banning is that it does nothing for women. Baning loli's not going to stop pedophiles from preying, banning rape hentai is not going to stop rapists, etc. But i do consider myself a feminist, in the sense that i believe in gender equality for both men and women. I do not believe all feminists should be judged based on the actions of a few extreme feminists.
So, does anyone feel like sharing there opinion on this?
Yes, i think this whole banning of fetishes is stupid. But i don't think we should start attacking feminisim because of it. Every group has extremists, and feminisim is no exception. The main reason i disagree with the fetish banning is that it does nothing for women. Baning loli's not going to stop pedophiles from preying, banning rape hentai is not going to stop rapists, etc. But i do consider myself a feminist, in the sense that i believe in gender equality for both men and women. I do not believe all feminists should be judged based on the actions of a few extreme feminists.
So, does anyone feel like sharing there opinion on this?
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Well I don't think these "extreme" feminist are banning these things thinking it will reduce rape or pedophiles. I think it is more of a symbolic thing that such images aren't going to be acceptable in society, real or not.
I think feminist movement groups are wierd though, the right hand never knows what the left is doing. On one side they want equal rights, but on the other they still want to be treated like women, and men and women are different so I guess they should be treated different. But like you said, there are groups that define the public view of all the feminist. And like every group, not everyone is one cohesive agreeing organization, I'm sure there are different opinions about this among people within the movement.
I think feminist movement groups are wierd though, the right hand never knows what the left is doing. On one side they want equal rights, but on the other they still want to be treated like women, and men and women are different so I guess they should be treated different. But like you said, there are groups that define the public view of all the feminist. And like every group, not everyone is one cohesive agreeing organization, I'm sure there are different opinions about this among people within the movement.
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Feminist movements across the world have turn into a big joke. It's fine to want equal rights and treatment as men, but many women only want it where they want it. They don't want to take the same kind of employment and verbal abuse as a man, but still want to be able to work the same salary? That crap doesn't fly. You can't have your cake and eat it too. "Well I want to be treated like a man here, but I don't want to here." Bullshit.
(Yeah, I REALLY hate feminists.)
(Yeah, I REALLY hate feminists.)
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Yeah, and thats why I say the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing because I think there are Feminist who realize that.
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People are obviously confused about things, and morals have made us over-think concepts and ideas that are actually very simple. They look at things like Rape Hentai, and they say "That guy is raping the girl. The people who watch this must be turned on by this, therefore it supports rape." This is just simply not the case, although I'm sure out there, there is a rapist who watches Rape hentai.
At any rate, the banning of fetishes like Rape, or Incest is the product of a flawed idea. Now, if you don't believe me, why don't you think of it this way. Say you met a rapist, and you asked him why he was a rapist. Do you think that he will honestly say he was a rapist because he watched some 'Crazy Japanese cartoon that depicted rape and/or incest?' I don't think so.
Also regarding feminism, there has always been a superiority men have over women, and that kind of feeling is going to last forever. The feeling may be played down, and considered taboo by everyone eventually, but there are always going to be a group of men intent on making women into second class citizens. I can only hope that something like that will not exist in the future. In the U.S.A., and other civilized countries like it they have leveled the playing field for women, creating 'equal opportunity for all race, gender, background'. But, it may WILL take many years before other countries in the middle east accept these ideas.
Basically, feminism is taking a point that has already been made and running away with it, creating unnecessary problems.
At any rate, the banning of fetishes like Rape, or Incest is the product of a flawed idea. Now, if you don't believe me, why don't you think of it this way. Say you met a rapist, and you asked him why he was a rapist. Do you think that he will honestly say he was a rapist because he watched some 'Crazy Japanese cartoon that depicted rape and/or incest?' I don't think so.
Also regarding feminism, there has always been a superiority men have over women, and that kind of feeling is going to last forever. The feeling may be played down, and considered taboo by everyone eventually, but there are always going to be a group of men intent on making women into second class citizens. I can only hope that something like that will not exist in the future. In the U.S.A., and other civilized countries like it they have leveled the playing field for women, creating 'equal opportunity for all race, gender, background'. But, it may WILL take many years before other countries in the middle east accept these ideas.
Basically, feminism is taking a point that has already been made and running away with it, creating unnecessary problems.
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It's simple feminisim has completely degraded.
Feminisim before = equal rights by treating them the same and thus empowering them
Feminisim now = equal right by treating them with a special set of rules that actually make them seem weaker becuase to treat them the same isn't fair.
Feminisim before = equal rights by treating them the same and thus empowering them
Feminisim now = equal right by treating them with a special set of rules that actually make them seem weaker becuase to treat them the same isn't fair.
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Brittany
FAKKU Production Mngr
lathandien wrote...
People are obviously confused about things, and morals have made us over-think concepts and ideas that are actually very simple. They look at things like Rape Hentai, and they say "That guy is raping the girl. The people who watch this must be turned on by this, therefore it supports rape." This is just simply not the case, although I'm sure out there, there is a rapist who watches Rape hentai.I have to disagree. Feminists are after female equal rights. Hentai with rape in it displays an image of a girl being weak, and not being able to defend herself.
Loli shows as a female little girl who is unable to defend herself.
They demand equal rights on women.
They're after it because it depicts an image of women being lesser then men.
That being said, they're after ALL of the porn industry, because it gives a misinterpretation of who women are.
Ew, I think I felt some bile coming up.
The problem is, the only time we ever hear about feminism is when the nut cases who need to be pimp smacked and told to take it like a man are the only ones who get the spotlight.
I actually found a feminism group blog one that's amusing. Not that it's a joke, but her way of words and her articles about issues is amusing.
Such as:
Paris Hilton claiming that only ugly people give head.
http://zeldalily.com/index.php/2009/06/paris-hilton-thinks-blow-jobs-are-for-ugly-girls/
She doesn't have a problem with girls going down, no - that's sexually liberating. She feels a girl should be able to do whatever she feels she's comfortable with in bed.
What she's not okay with is Paris stating something that only ugly girls would do it, when in fact she's done it before.
But mostly because of:
Second, because it gives her younger and more impressionable fans the idea that performing oral sex on a man is somehow a sign of decreased value and/or low moral character. It is so frustrating to see perpetuated the idea that a woman’s choice to perform a certain sexual act is always an act of desperation or an indicator that a man has diminished respect for her. I am not saying that all blow jobs are acts of saintly goodness (although some men may disagree with me on that point), but I hate the idea of a young woman being convinced that she’s somehow a less worthy person because she chose to perform oral sex.
This is the sites feelings about feminism. I can agree with about 90% of it, but I'm not sure of what she meant.
but here it is:
Zelda Lily aims to redefine feminism. We want to approach the term from a new angle. We want feminism to be about everything that being a woman entails.
A woman can be a full professor of physics at MIT, or a CEO of a Fortune 500 corporation. A woman can run a political campaign and a woman can win a political office. A woman can spear-head volunteer efforts at a national level or at a grass-roots level. A woman can run a hospital. A woman can run a salon. A woman can play football. A woman can host a dinner party. A woman can be a single mother. A woman can be pro-life. A woman can run a software company. A woman can be a porn star. A woman can run a bank. A woman can max out her credit cards. A woman can pick up the tab. A woman can be whisked off to Hawaii. A woman can accept and love her body. A woman can get liposuction and a nose job. A woman can produce a hard-hitting documentary. A woman can watch The Hills. A woman can love her husband. A woman can love her wife. And a woman, of course, can love her new Manolos and the perfect little purse she got to match.
We’re pulling feminism away from its cave of ideology and bringing it back into our day-to-day lives. We want to encourage women to talk about everything that being a woman can entail, and everything that a woman may want or fear or love.
We’re putting feminism back in bra.
A woman can be a full professor of physics at MIT, or a CEO of a Fortune 500 corporation. A woman can run a political campaign and a woman can win a political office. A woman can spear-head volunteer efforts at a national level or at a grass-roots level. A woman can run a hospital. A woman can run a salon. A woman can play football. A woman can host a dinner party. A woman can be a single mother. A woman can be pro-life. A woman can run a software company. A woman can be a porn star. A woman can run a bank. A woman can max out her credit cards. A woman can pick up the tab. A woman can be whisked off to Hawaii. A woman can accept and love her body. A woman can get liposuction and a nose job. A woman can produce a hard-hitting documentary. A woman can watch The Hills. A woman can love her husband. A woman can love her wife. And a woman, of course, can love her new Manolos and the perfect little purse she got to match.
We’re pulling feminism away from its cave of ideology and bringing it back into our day-to-day lives. We want to encourage women to talk about everything that being a woman can entail, and everything that a woman may want or fear or love.
We’re putting feminism back in bra.
That being said, it's basically the difference between a Conservative feminist, and a Liberal feminist.
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waynoinsano wrote...
It's simple feminisim has completely degraded.Feminisim before = equal rights by treating them the same and thus empowering them
Feminisim now = equal right by treating them with a special set of rules that actually make them seem weaker becuase to treat them the same isn't fair.
You hit it on the nail friend.
But their is some evadance to show that porn can encorrage a sick fantasy, that very well may become reality.
While at the same time it can be reasoned that porn allows for a healthy letting out of pent of feelings.
I think both arguments have grounds, but the current phobiea (on the part of the fems) goes over board.
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Second, because it gives her younger and more impressionable fans the idea that performing oral sex on a man is somehow a sign of decreased value and/or low moral character. It is so frustrating to see perpetuated the idea that a woman’s choice to perform a certain sexual act is always an act of desperation or an indicator that a man has diminished respect for her. I am not saying that all blow jobs are acts of saintly goodness (although some men may disagree with me on that point), but I hate the idea of a young woman being convinced that she’s somehow a less worthy person because she chose to perform oral sex.
I went to the link and read the full article, and i what she wanted to say was clear. Basically, it seems to be a common idea that if a girl has sex than she has low self esteem/daddy issues/insert negative personality trait here. I agree with the author about the absurdity of this idea
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It's not just because of the recent rape game ban that has people hating feminists. I'm glad there are a lot of people here who realize the hypocrisy presented by a lot of feminists. They want equality, but don't want equality only when it suites them. Many may say not all feminists are like that, but you can't deny the fact that it is the majority.
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PersonDude wrote...
It's not just because of the recent rape game ban that has people hating feminists. I'm glad there are a lot of people here who realize the hypocrisy presented by a lot of feminists. They want equality, but don't want equality only when it suites them. Many may say not all feminists are like that, but you can't deny the fact that it is the majority.In japan or world wide?
Im not so sure that is true in all places.
For instance in Saudi Arabia the feminist their can be likened to the first feminists in the u.s. They not only want equality but to be treated exactly like a man. (with the exception of the religious stuff/gender roles .for instance some ladies like to ware a head dress.)
But in japan they are definitely nuts!
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greenzspy wrote...
waynoinsano wrote...
It's simple feminisim has completely degraded.Feminisim before = equal rights by treating them the same and thus empowering them
Feminisim now = equal right by treating them with a special set of rules that actually make them seem weaker becuase to treat them the same isn't fair.
You hit it on the nail friend.
But their is some evadance to show that porn can encorrage a sick fantasy, that very well may become reality.
While at the same time it can be reasoned that porn allows for a healthy letting out of pent of feelings.
I think both arguments have grounds, but the current phobiea (on the part of the fems) goes over board.
I'm just hoping that this isn't the case.. I love hentai, i've got somewhat simple fetishes from it but i'm not going to go out and rape someone because of it. The people that do this must be unstable, I mean no offense.. but to make something that's practically a cartoon fantasy into something real just to satisfy needs?
I'm sorry but... I don't agree with a lot of the FemiNazi's out there, but then again when something in a Country is instated, it'll take awhile before it's changed.
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It's not that feminist hate hentai it's just they want to see equality and respect towards their gender... you can't blame them entirely as to why fetishes are suddenly being banned.
ask this yourself... "why are they banning them??"
The answer is that people with authority agrees to them about equality between the two sexes and thus they ban (certain) hentai fetishes displaying harassing/raping women because they too believe that women, even in hentai, should be given due and utmost respect.
ask this yourself... "why are they banning them??"
The answer is that people with authority agrees to them about equality between the two sexes and thus they ban (certain) hentai fetishes displaying harassing/raping women because they too believe that women, even in hentai, should be given due and utmost respect.
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Feminism is composed of different schools, or branches, that differ so wildly amongst each other, that it makes almost no sense to state my views on "feminism".
Roughly, however, feminism can be divided into two main branches, and I shall now give my opinion on these:
One one hand, you have the feminism that is centred on the view that there are two genders, which are radically different; that there is a mysterious patriarchy governing the world, oppressing all women; that male sexuality is always rape; that women are always victims; that the natural state of life is a peaceful matriarchate; that women are inherently peaceful; etc.
This is the predominantly anglo-american branch of "radical" feminism that is being promoted by the likes of Andrea Dworkin, Naomi Wolf, Alice Schwarzer and so on. These people are generally more dominant in the public discourse, because they polarize and because they're the loudest - which makes for good headlines. They also present very outlandish proposals (such as Wolf's demand for women to wear tchadors to 'preserve the mystery of sex').
These people I despise. Their arguments don't hold any water (in fact, each and every one of the studies they presented to support their case has been utterly obliterated by academic feminism); their conspiracy-riddled perspective is risible; they form machiavellist alliances at will (such as with christian fundamentalists in their fight against pornography); and their followers don't even realize that this is a MARKET (seminaries, books, magazines, ...), where views are being SOLD to them. Even more tiresome is that these people lend themselves as useful stooges to politicians that are mining for cheap political capital from moral panics. Out! Out, you demons of stupidity!
Then there is the other branch, which dubs itself "academic" feminism, whose proponents include Élisabeth Badinter, Wendy McElroy, Kimberly Davies and others; it is sometimes dubbed the "french" branch of feminism after its original epicentre.
This school of feminism is generally more subdued in its language, and, owing to its scholarly background, less likely to produce a good headline - which means they're virtually not present in the media. Their view is that the binary gender model is erroneous; they have repeatedly shown that the differences between males and females are far smaller than the differences between social strata; they hold the view that the "fight" of men -vs- women is pointless and only furthers the status quo; that the focus should be shifted to men and women jointly striving for change; that the traditional role models result in an oppression of the male just as well as of the female; that the real fight is not men versus women, but up versus down; that neither gender is inherently more peaceable or aggressive than the other; that we are predominantly shaped by our biography and social imperatives; that sexuality (and, by the by, pornography) is not evil, which is why they are sometimes characterized as "pro-sex feminists"; etc.
These people I greatly adore and support them to the fullest. Their views are supported by an enormous slew of modern research from a wide range of disciplines (such as K. Hakami's seminal anthropological research on natural societies); they argue in an unagitated, well-thought manner; and by way of their academic rigour they don't turn a blind eye to unpleasant truths. They also don't have anything to sell, and thus do not have to pander to media attention or the black-and-white mindset of simpletons. Especially Badinter (her works "L'Amour en plus : histoire de l'amour maternel (XVIIe-XXe siècle)", "XY, de l'identité masculine", and above all "Fausse route" have had a profound influence on me) deserves a golden pedestal in the panthéon and I sincerely adore her as one of the true luminaries of our day and age.
Roughly, however, feminism can be divided into two main branches, and I shall now give my opinion on these:
One one hand, you have the feminism that is centred on the view that there are two genders, which are radically different; that there is a mysterious patriarchy governing the world, oppressing all women; that male sexuality is always rape; that women are always victims; that the natural state of life is a peaceful matriarchate; that women are inherently peaceful; etc.
This is the predominantly anglo-american branch of "radical" feminism that is being promoted by the likes of Andrea Dworkin, Naomi Wolf, Alice Schwarzer and so on. These people are generally more dominant in the public discourse, because they polarize and because they're the loudest - which makes for good headlines. They also present very outlandish proposals (such as Wolf's demand for women to wear tchadors to 'preserve the mystery of sex').
These people I despise. Their arguments don't hold any water (in fact, each and every one of the studies they presented to support their case has been utterly obliterated by academic feminism); their conspiracy-riddled perspective is risible; they form machiavellist alliances at will (such as with christian fundamentalists in their fight against pornography); and their followers don't even realize that this is a MARKET (seminaries, books, magazines, ...), where views are being SOLD to them. Even more tiresome is that these people lend themselves as useful stooges to politicians that are mining for cheap political capital from moral panics. Out! Out, you demons of stupidity!
Then there is the other branch, which dubs itself "academic" feminism, whose proponents include Élisabeth Badinter, Wendy McElroy, Kimberly Davies and others; it is sometimes dubbed the "french" branch of feminism after its original epicentre.
This school of feminism is generally more subdued in its language, and, owing to its scholarly background, less likely to produce a good headline - which means they're virtually not present in the media. Their view is that the binary gender model is erroneous; they have repeatedly shown that the differences between males and females are far smaller than the differences between social strata; they hold the view that the "fight" of men -vs- women is pointless and only furthers the status quo; that the focus should be shifted to men and women jointly striving for change; that the traditional role models result in an oppression of the male just as well as of the female; that the real fight is not men versus women, but up versus down; that neither gender is inherently more peaceable or aggressive than the other; that we are predominantly shaped by our biography and social imperatives; that sexuality (and, by the by, pornography) is not evil, which is why they are sometimes characterized as "pro-sex feminists"; etc.
These people I greatly adore and support them to the fullest. Their views are supported by an enormous slew of modern research from a wide range of disciplines (such as K. Hakami's seminal anthropological research on natural societies); they argue in an unagitated, well-thought manner; and by way of their academic rigour they don't turn a blind eye to unpleasant truths. They also don't have anything to sell, and thus do not have to pander to media attention or the black-and-white mindset of simpletons. Especially Badinter (her works "L'Amour en plus : histoire de l'amour maternel (XVIIe-XXe siècle)", "XY, de l'identité masculine", and above all "Fausse route" have had a profound influence on me) deserves a golden pedestal in the panthéon and I sincerely adore her as one of the true luminaries of our day and age.
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As gibbous explained, there are a number of ridiculous people who give feminism a bad name, and they do not deserve respect.
Ultimately, feminism deals with equal rights and opportunities for women, which they should have. However, the flip side of this is that women also have to take on equal responsibilities. Things like affirmative action might get more women in certain jobs in which they are underrepresented, but these things are also essentially saying that a handicap is still necessary. It's also a bit of a double edged sword because while it might give some women a chance to prove to those who don't want to believe it that they can in fact succeed, it also can create a lot of bitterness. People start to believe that women and minorities succeed because they got an advantage and not on their own merit. The number of people willing to attribute minority success in something like college admissions(whether justified or not) to affirmative action more so than merit is quite significant.
I also don't understand why some who call themselves feminists feel it necessary to criticize those women who do choose the traditional mother/housewife role. Feminism is all about having the freedom to choose, whether that choice is housewife or CEO.
Ultimately, feminism deals with equal rights and opportunities for women, which they should have. However, the flip side of this is that women also have to take on equal responsibilities. Things like affirmative action might get more women in certain jobs in which they are underrepresented, but these things are also essentially saying that a handicap is still necessary. It's also a bit of a double edged sword because while it might give some women a chance to prove to those who don't want to believe it that they can in fact succeed, it also can create a lot of bitterness. People start to believe that women and minorities succeed because they got an advantage and not on their own merit. The number of people willing to attribute minority success in something like college admissions(whether justified or not) to affirmative action more so than merit is quite significant.
I also don't understand why some who call themselves feminists feel it necessary to criticize those women who do choose the traditional mother/housewife role. Feminism is all about having the freedom to choose, whether that choice is housewife or CEO.
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AzulE05 wrote...
The answer is that people with authority agrees to them about equality between the two sexes and thus they ban (certain) hentai fetishes displaying harassing/raping women because they too believe that women, even in hentai, should be given due and utmost respect.Or the diet members are too busy trying to satisfy the public that they would vote in favor of these feminists. Seriously, who would take a government official seriously if he claimed he liked hentai or even supported it?
WhiteLion wrote...
Ultimately, feminism deals with equal rights and opportunities for women, which they should have. However, the flip side of this is that women also have to take on equal responsibilities. Things like affirmative action might get more women in certain jobs in which they are underrepresented, but these things are also essentially saying that a handicap is still necessary. It's also a bit of a double edged sword because while it might give some women a chance to prove to those who don't want to believe it that they can in fact succeed, it also can create a lot of bitterness. People start to believe that women and minorities succeed because they got an advantage and not on their own merit. The number of people willing to attribute minority success in something like college admissions(whether justified or not) to affirmative action more so than merit is quite significant.I also don't understand why some who call themselves feminists feel it necessary to criticize those women who do choose the traditional mother/housewife role. Feminism is all about having the freedom to choose, whether that choice is housewife or CEO.
Very good analysis. Need to rep you sometime later.
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If someone doesn't like something they will attempt to stop it, if they succeed in doing so, they will attempt to stop the next thing and the next thing, etc...
Might I draw your attention to this:
http://uk.askmen.com/money/career_250/278_why-women-cant-be-bosses.html
Might I draw your attention to this:
http://uk.askmen.com/money/career_250/278_why-women-cant-be-bosses.html
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While women may have certain tendencies, i think they can get over them if they try. I mean, no one is perfect, and as long as you know what your habits are you can better control them. And in my opinion part of the tendencies the article mentions are due to outside there nature that causes them(like there environment and such)