Gender roles in Anime

Warning: This thread is purely the opinion of me and my subsidiaries. Gender roles will forever be a debate that neither sides will ever begin to comprehend. Understand that this thread is posted mainly as a discussion and not to attack any gender whether male/female/trans/asexual.


I just recently had a conversation with a friend of mine who constantly tells me that every anime that I watch, every movie I see, depicts women in a powerless state.


I stood there kinda dumbfounded as I recall most of the anime that I have just recently watched. Gundam(s), Naruto, Oreimo, Madoka, Mayo Chiki! and the countless more animes.


They all are complete stereotypical representations of women whether they are "magical girls", the sought after girl, or the "female sidekick" (Tsundere is stereotypical as well)

I discussed with my friend and I can understand how every animated woman/girl, is to perfection. No flaws, no pimples, no unattractive characteristics at all. Yes I know what your thinking, "Anime isn't real life, stop thinking to hard about it"

I had nothing to say back to her. So it was hard to admit it but I dont ever recall a female gundam pilot that was the main character...

Also I may not be an anime expert but I can kinda figure that even the oldest of animes had stereotypical gender roles. Correct me if I'm wrong here.

Long story short, she told me to never watch anime because just by me watching anime I am reinforcing the stereotype that all women should be kawaii, sexy, busty, and be at the "mans" feet.

That is where most of the danger resides in this thread. How can we react to media images, specifically anime, that depict women as powerless tools and how do we talk about it? Do we stop our moe for characters? When do we draw the line? When does adoration of a character move towards fetishes and obsessions?



There is so much more to this topic that I did not cover and I do not plan on touching base with everything, I mustered a ton of courage to try to post this, so I hope that the responses will be somewhat educated and believe me, this is just scratching the surface.



Again I am no expert, I have not watched every single anime and had it dissected for gender stereotypes, nor do I have a degree in... anything. Just trying to get a different perspective.

I'd agree that this is a big topic that needs FAR more analysis and research.

Yes, as a cartoon/animated medium, there's a long standing tradition of stereotype/caricature, but sometimes there are very adverse effects to keeping such norms in place.

My friends get pissed off when I try to do any sort of gendered analysis of anime beyond a few simple statements, but honestly, it's like any media: a reflection of its creators' and culture's views.

Like you said, anime is anime. People don't want to see characters that are realistic so they get made to be more or less perfect. As for the gender roles, those are kinda stereotypes that would cause some form of dissent should they be gone against in any way but the right one. As long as you keep in mind that anime is just fantasy and in very few, if any, ways representative of real life you should be more or less ok.

Anime characters are developed how the creators see fit.

It is just like the movies, the story writer and director casts the actors in roles they see fit because they wanna make the film as realistic and interesting as possible.

Sometimes there are complaints about it, and sometimes there are ones who crave for it, but whatever the case, it is not up to us to decide which actor/figure fits into which role since the series has been already made.

It is a matter of decisions made to make a good/funny/complicated and other genres anime shows.

True that anime sometimes influences people to have higher expectations for a girls and vice-versa.

I really agree that as long as you think it is just anime, you should be ok, because honestly even though I am a manga/anime freak I don't let it slide into my life because it would be just plain weird.

Let's take Naruto as an example, do you really feel Tsunade, Anko, Sakura or even Hinata or weak, subservient women? I'm not a fan of the Gundam series but I believe there are several women pilots, are they weak or subjugated just because they aren't the main character? How about the Major from Ghost in a Shell - another weak, subservient woman. For ever "poor, oppressed" female anime character I can show you another one who is strong and independent.

I recently listen to a conversation similar to your friends where several feminists talked about the sexist aspects of anime. One railed about Shuffle, because one of the girls learned to cook so she could impress the male lead by making him a bento. You're still in school, and the academic environment is sometimes full of overly idealistic folks of all opinions, but my friend I can tell you with certainty that women in real life do things to impress the guys they like, guys do things to impress the girls they like. My wife got her mother to cook a meal while we were dating so she could make me think she was a good cook.

Guys and girls find each other attractive, they do things (often stupid things) to impress one another - that's not sexists - it's life and it been going on for thousands of years.




So, your "enlightened" friend is demanding that you stop watching anime because it doesn't conform to her somewhat uncommon point of view? And you don't find a problem with that? If someone demanded you change your religion because it did not agree with their beliefs, would you be OK with that? Would you find it problematic?

You said you didn't have an answer when originally confronted - there is a good reason for that. Most people do not see the types of issues she has raised and accused the anime industry of perpetrating. Most of us watch anime to be entertained, we simply do not see rampant injustice so we are not prepared to defend it against extreme points of view, let alone demands that we stop watching it because by doing so we are some how destroying civilization. People will always find fault in things they don't like (or understand), most will simply ignore them - not watch anime if they find it offensive - while others will run to the soapbox and demand you stop - people have tried to ban everything from Harry Potter to Mark Twain from public and school libraries because they found them offensive.

And lets remember that anime is a reflection of Japanese culture, not American culture - it's primary intended audience are the Japanese, not us. Japanese culture is very different, and many modern feminists may find fault with it - but let's remember, it's not their culture.

If you find anime to be offensive, sexists or whatever - then don't watch it - from your comments I sincerely doubt that to be the case. You are more than likely simply a fan, looking to be entertained. Don't let someone else ruin that because she has some extreme point of view. BTW - just what does she find to be acceptable? Anime isn't very different in it's depictions of modern day life than TV or movies - I'd be interested in hearing just what she finds acceptable.

Christina Mackenzie from "Mobile Suit Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket"
Honestly they don't have to be the "main character".

Here's what I can simplify from your post: You need to watch MORE, I mean more Anime. You had nothing to say because you lack "experience" with it.

There are plenty of animes that shows how females who don't fall into the stereotype..PLENTY

Examples, to show your friend how wrong and biased she is:
(Anime's that have females as main characters and also not on the "weak side")
-Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind
-Avenger
-Dogs: Bullets & Carnage
-Earth Maiden Arjuna
-Kara no Kyoukai
-Kino no Tabi
-etc

Here's a really nice question to ask to your friend: "What do you think will happen if the anime industries follows her "beliefs" 100%?
She's not the only one that watches anime, there are specific genre,age groups and gender focus. Why should she watch a male gender focused anime if she doesn't like it. Tell her to watch animes that is targeted for her, and tell her to not force her opinion upon other animes that is NOT targeted for her.

*sigh.. the feminist movement.. wish that they didn't force their beliefs into other people...Look at what they did to the VN and eroge industry...

The Japanese culture is very different to other cultures. With each work that is made they are shaping it into an experience intended for a specific audience.

Also, there are many female anime characters that break that stereotypical female pattern both in older and newer anime. As Kaimax said, you need to watch a lot more anime. Have you ever seen a Studio Ghibli film?

Exactly what she wrote. The industries don't just focus on powerless females at all because when I think about it, the first anime I ever watched that had girls kicking asses were Sailor Moon.

Like the men in anime are typically pimply and unattractive?

Seriously, there are very few ugly characters male or female in most anime. And there are plenty of strong female characters in anime. Selty from Durarara is a good example, as she is rarely the subject of fan service and i can't remember her ever needing to be rescued. And Claymore in both its manga and anime form focus on powerful women who again rarely the subject of fan service. Your friend can find anime focused on powerful women if she really wants to.

Plus, most of the time if a woman hits a man in a anime it is seen as something comedic no matter if the male in question actually deserved it or not. Does your friend find that to be depicting women in a powerless state?

My take is, you're just watching way too much shounen and harem shit. Those pander to young male boys and adolescents and are typically very patriarchal in their nature.

Compare those to some shoujo works, or better yet seinen. Granted, all in all anime and manga tends to be patriarchal as they are created by a society which still has very strong patriarchal mores.

However like all things, that's changing. Not all anime and manga are like that... though frankly I'd say we'd regressed somewhat since the '80. Back then you had a lot more strong female leads and heroines.

Gunbuster, Iczer-1, Vampire Princess Miyu... nowadays strong female leads are rarer. They're not gone though. Take Studio I.G's Lagrange for instance where all three protagonists are girls and while they do have some cute, appealing mannerisms the show has been surprisingly restrained and showed them as well rounded personalities who stand on their own.

PS.: Ecole du Ciel is a Gundam manga with a female lead.

Confirmation bias.

If you watch shonen/harem anime, then obviously the main character will very likely be a young male.

Go watch some Miyazaki or something.

There have been some good responses here, but seriously guys - does anyone know the meaning of sexist? An anime with a male lead is NOT sexist, it ONLY BECOMES SEXIST if and only if there are NO female leads. Harems and Shonen manga and anime are NOT sexists they are freekin sitcoms, they are not intended to be accurate depictions of society - think Married with Children as an example. And as I said, what little it does depict is not about American or even western society, but about Japanese society. Sorry ladies, but you have no right to disparage another culture, now if Japanese ladies want to complain - that's another story.

I heard a female (professional) anime reviewer comment in a discussion about cosplay that "people do not dress up in costume to NOT be noticed". Then several minutes later she stated that female cosplayers who dress up and get all the attention at conventions are "hobags". Sorry ladies, it doesn't work that way. Either cosplay is sexist (which I don't believe it is) or it isn't - it is NOT sexist only when the pretty girl gets more attention than you. Some people simply should never wear spandex!

"Anime characters aren't depicted as ugly or with pimples" - really? You actually think that anime characters should be depicted as ugly, overweight or having acne? Who in their right mind wants to see that - frankly comments like that have had a severely negative impact on the feminist movement, it's just plain impossible to take them seriously.

A member of the same panel discussing sexism in anime that called popular cosplayers "hobags" had another well known member state that High School of the Dead was sexist. Not a huge surprise, the four main female characters do spend most of their time half-naked, but they choose the scene where Saeko confesses her fears about starting to enjoy killing zombies to Takashi and pointed to this scene as why they considered the series "sexist". According to these anime "professionals" this scene robbed Saeko of all her power and strength and she only regained it (if she did at all) when Takashi "gave it back to her" ... what the hell. I watched this series - several times - and that certainly is NOT how I would interpret that scene!

Bottomline - there are people out there who will simply complain about anything and everything, "anime is sexist", "Harry Potter promotes devil worship", because it's about witches. The OP seems like an intelligent guy - my advise to him is to listen to your heart, it will be right almost every time. The idiots - just ignore them.

Just a little thing unrelated. Have you seen Danshi Koukousei no Nichijou? That show has no female leads except maybe at the 5 minute little side show at the end.


Regarding the original topic, being sought after or being a magical girl does not make someone subservient. In Gundam, we know that it was made in the 70s where gender equality hasn't been completely established. Still there are many powerful though other powerless female figures in the series. In the more recent Gundams, even though female pilots don't usually take the front line, they still play a large active role in the series. Gundam SEED has female leads holding the highest authority in their political factions and Gundam 00 would go nowhere without Sumeragi as their tactician.

Oh, just remembered an example. Code Geass has Kallen as the ace pilot and strong female character.

Even Kamen Rider is changing to be more gender equal, starting with Kamen Rider Ryuuki with Femme and Kamen Rider Hibiki with that girl whose name I don't know because I never watched it. In Kamen Rider Decade, one of the protagonist Kamen Riders is female even if she only makes movie appearances.

Then you have the Girls with Guns genre where the main characters are women with godly shooting skills while the men suck ass. Good example: Black Lagoon(Mr. Chang is an exception) and Noir.

Offtopic but personally, I don't enjoy a series where you have the super powered main character with a completely useless chick or ones where you have those super powered girls lusting after that useless short guy. Best ones are the ones where they are battle couples(can't think of an example for the moment so I'll just stick to Special A and Kaichou wa Maid-sama)

Back on topic, your so called friend is one of those feminists who only complain about how everything is unfair because she has those coloured glasses on at maximum opacity. Don't listen to her as that ignorant statement rivals those critics that call a game racist because there is ONE homeless black woman in a city filled with homeless people.

Once again OP, none of the animes you listed have women in a completely powerless state. As you remember in Madoka, there ARE no male characters(or at least none with characterization). Oreimo is a show about the female lead bullying her older brother, Naruto is a shonen manga where everyone's either a ninja or dead(Sakura is no longer the load after the time skip and she's pretty much the only character that could have been considered the load). Actually if you look at Naruto, there is no useless female character in there as pretty much all named characters (and unnamed ones) can kick ass. Tsunade's the leader of the village, Sakura is the strongest combat medic, Chiyo despite being over 100 still kicks ass, Hinata's gotten very skilled though we never really see her fight any enemies who's power isn't approaching god like levels. Yeah. The only reason why female characters would seem weak is because Naruto is basically the Second Coming of Ninja Jesus.

Girls are generally depicted as such because of fan/market demand. Moe, Weak-looking, Defenseless girls generally sell better than strong, independent girls.

But that doesn't mean there aren't any strong girls at all. Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Fairy Tail any manga/anime I can think of has at least one strong girl (In Claymore EVERY STRONG CHRACTER IS A GIRL). Then again, in Japanese culture women are generally more subservient than the western woman e.g. traditionally Japanese wives walk behind their husbands, women do the housework and chores etc. That is their norm and way of life; to do otherwise would seem out of character.

Your friend is judging anime through Western standards. Try to make her look past all that and she'll be surprised.

No I haven't - sorry, and I think I didn't make myself clear in that regard either. I didn't mean a single show with no female lead should be considered sexist - that's (IMHO) crap, but what I meant is that you shouldn't say anime is sexist because 'ABC' doesn't have a female lead, anime should be considered sexists only if no shows (or very few) had female leads. There are times when no women (or no men) is entirely right for a particular work, is Saving Private Ryan sexist? Hell no.

Morals of the thread:
1.) Feminists can and will make anything sound sexist by putting it into a narrow point of view, blocking out most logic and reason
2.) Anime is in no way sexist, considering the number of titles in the female empowerment genre. Hell, I can even name some harem/FE crossovers. To-Love Ru, for one. There was one shred of masculinity in the last season. Omamori Himari is another one.
3.) Your friend doesn't know how to put things in proper perspective

Funny, just the other day I was thinking about the gender stereotypes in anime and came to a conclusion that there is plenty of strong female characters in the series I have watched.

The thing that sometimes bothers me is how easily anime girls get violent, and how it's always funny when a girl hits a guy.

"Kawaii" girls who are always perfect, sells. Just like sex, sex sells.

That's all there is to it.

Anime is twisted anyway. Hentai is the sick sister of anime. So it doesnt matter why she gets off as long as she does and teaches us how to do to step by step.