Go to College, Study What You Love, and Work at McDonald's?
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I talked to a woman the other day who said that she has a degree in English (I assume a bachelor's degree) and works in a grocery store. She spent four years, at least, and a ton of money to get a college degree, and she's working at a grocery store.
It's not that uncommon, and though it isn't a new phenomenon, it is becoming more common. People who get degrees in Philosophy or Art are often the butt of jokes; what are they going to use them for? I even asked a Philosophy professor what a person could do with a Philosophy degree, and he said to me, simply, "Teach."
That sort of thing pisses me off. If I'm going to pay a bunch of money, even going so far as to get student loans and go into debt, I want it to mean something. I want to be able to get a good-paying job after I graduate. At the same time, I don't want money to be my only goal; I want to study the stuff I enjoy, the stuff that interests me. The thing is, mathematics and economics don't interest me. So, how can I study what I love and still get a good job after college?
I'm not asking any specific questions in this thread. I just want to hear what everybody thinks about this subject. Feel free to ask your own questions and voice any opinions you have concerning the problem of college degrees that seem all but worthless.
It's not that uncommon, and though it isn't a new phenomenon, it is becoming more common. People who get degrees in Philosophy or Art are often the butt of jokes; what are they going to use them for? I even asked a Philosophy professor what a person could do with a Philosophy degree, and he said to me, simply, "Teach."
That sort of thing pisses me off. If I'm going to pay a bunch of money, even going so far as to get student loans and go into debt, I want it to mean something. I want to be able to get a good-paying job after I graduate. At the same time, I don't want money to be my only goal; I want to study the stuff I enjoy, the stuff that interests me. The thing is, mathematics and economics don't interest me. So, how can I study what I love and still get a good job after college?
I'm not asking any specific questions in this thread. I just want to hear what everybody thinks about this subject. Feel free to ask your own questions and voice any opinions you have concerning the problem of college degrees that seem all but worthless.
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education means considerably less than connections, these days.
Like that saying, "it doesn't matter WHAT you know, it matters WHO you know."
A guy who didn't finish high school can get a job for $20 an hour if he knows the right people, while someone who graduated collage can only find jobs paying minimum wage if they don't.
Another thing is, like you said, some subjects just don't have realistic applications. People have a lot of different reasons to go to collage, but the big one it seems is that it is what is expected. After high school, you go to collage so you can get a well-paying job. It's just how it works in most people's minds. So you study something you at least somewhat like, but maybe that isn't something that really has a field of work after collage, and you find yourself fucked. You have no money, and you owe a bunch back in student loans, and your degree amounts to jack shit because it didn't teach you anything that is useful to anyone. Especially these days, with such high unemployment rates, to have a good job you either have to know someone, or have skills vital in a particular field. Outside of that, you have shit, and you are actually worse of than people who didn't go to collage, because they have 4 years work experience over you.
Not that collage is a bad thing, or that even studying what you like in collage is a bad thing, just don't necessarily expect it to add up to a whole lot after you get out.
There isn't any point to life if you don't enjoy it, though. We all do what we have to, and sometimes that means working two shit jobs to pay the bills. In fact, a LOT of times it means that.
But, like I said, you should always do what you can to enjoy your life.
I've made a very stupid decision to move soon, for no reason other than I would rather be there than here. It is, by all other counts, a bad idea.
But I'd rather be shit poor and happy than just moderately poor, bored, and miserable.
Like that saying, "it doesn't matter WHAT you know, it matters WHO you know."
A guy who didn't finish high school can get a job for $20 an hour if he knows the right people, while someone who graduated collage can only find jobs paying minimum wage if they don't.
Another thing is, like you said, some subjects just don't have realistic applications. People have a lot of different reasons to go to collage, but the big one it seems is that it is what is expected. After high school, you go to collage so you can get a well-paying job. It's just how it works in most people's minds. So you study something you at least somewhat like, but maybe that isn't something that really has a field of work after collage, and you find yourself fucked. You have no money, and you owe a bunch back in student loans, and your degree amounts to jack shit because it didn't teach you anything that is useful to anyone. Especially these days, with such high unemployment rates, to have a good job you either have to know someone, or have skills vital in a particular field. Outside of that, you have shit, and you are actually worse of than people who didn't go to collage, because they have 4 years work experience over you.
Not that collage is a bad thing, or that even studying what you like in collage is a bad thing, just don't necessarily expect it to add up to a whole lot after you get out.
There isn't any point to life if you don't enjoy it, though. We all do what we have to, and sometimes that means working two shit jobs to pay the bills. In fact, a LOT of times it means that.
But, like I said, you should always do what you can to enjoy your life.
I've made a very stupid decision to move soon, for no reason other than I would rather be there than here. It is, by all other counts, a bad idea.
But I'd rather be shit poor and happy than just moderately poor, bored, and miserable.
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Dante1214 wrote...
But I'd rather be shit poor and happy than just moderately poor, bored, and miserable.
Also, I was reading an article about college in the Fire Service (my carreer of choice)
It says that in a candidate, having a degree-even in something useless-amounts to a capacity to work hard, and finish what you start.
However, on a personal level, I think that obtaining useful trade skills is more important than academic fulfillment.
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It really depends on your aims in life. Some of my friends studied just to get a 9-5 job, have a family and some kids, have some money to fund their pastimes etc. very uninspiring
I, personally, wanna make a difference in the world. I first took up finance because “that’s where to money is”. But I came to like it very much after 3 years and hopefully, I can put it to good use in the future - sort of the shit we are in now.
Good luck in whatever you choose to do :D but have an aim before executing it or you’ll be another headless chicken… :twisted:
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If you go into the field that can hypothetically get you more money say something like computer programming, the problem right now is that that field is laying off so many employees. These kinds of jobs relating to computers are being sent overseas to places like India were they work for smaller wages which I think is pretty ridiculous but somewhat understandable. That's what happened to my dad, they laid him off and it took him maybe about a year before he found another job. I don't know the specifics but it seems a lot of other people are losing their jobs too and that results in some of them going back to school therefore causing overpopulation in the CSU where I'm at. At the moment, I'm finding a hard time deciding what major I really want to stick with cause I want something that would get me a good paying job.
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I never understood why companies hire based on connections instead of skill/knowledge then complain when these new hires are incompetent or lazy.
I personally have been thinking about going to college for political science (bet you didn't see that one coming). The applications for a degree like that are 20-40k jobs or I can go four more years to make it a total of eight so I can get a 80-100k job. The problem is, the higher paying job has a chance to be nationalized by the government in the future. Thus dooming me to a meager existence of a tax leaching government employee.
I think another problem with college is narrow degrees. If your degree only has one or two possible jobs associated with it then you are going to have a hard time finding a job in the first place. This problem is multiplied by the fact that our economy is dropping in size.
As Dante said, I'd rather be poor and happy then be miserable and bored at a decent paying job.
I personally have been thinking about going to college for political science (bet you didn't see that one coming). The applications for a degree like that are 20-40k jobs or I can go four more years to make it a total of eight so I can get a 80-100k job. The problem is, the higher paying job has a chance to be nationalized by the government in the future. Thus dooming me to a meager existence of a tax leaching government employee.
I think another problem with college is narrow degrees. If your degree only has one or two possible jobs associated with it then you are going to have a hard time finding a job in the first place. This problem is multiplied by the fact that our economy is dropping in size.
As Dante said, I'd rather be poor and happy then be miserable and bored at a decent paying job.
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It's true that the appropriate connection can get you anywhere in life, but the path that you walk is defined by your actions. An asshole can be an asshole without taking classes on how to be an asshole. In a similar way, a philosopher can be a philosopher without taking philosophy courses.
Alternatively, an asshole that gains the appropriate credentials for being a professional asshole can't become a gainfully employed asshole if he doesn't have asshole connections. The same can be said for an properly certified philosopher. So, how do the these people become successful? Its not something that you need to lose sleep over. Assholes and philosophers both find their way in life by doing what they are able to do.
Maybe my train of thought is a little difficult to follow. So, to put it in perspective, there's this guy who's like 60 years old or something. He sleeps on a bench in the park with his guitar clutched in his arms. When he wakes up, he walks around until he finds a place he likes and then he sits down and plays his guitar.
Is that a bad way of life? He does what he does and he doesn't even do it because he thinks he can make a few cents from people passing by. He will die, but when he does, he'll be more satisfied with his life than the majority of the billions of people who continue on with their cushy fucking lives.
Alternatively, an asshole that gains the appropriate credentials for being a professional asshole can't become a gainfully employed asshole if he doesn't have asshole connections. The same can be said for an properly certified philosopher. So, how do the these people become successful? Its not something that you need to lose sleep over. Assholes and philosophers both find their way in life by doing what they are able to do.
Maybe my train of thought is a little difficult to follow. So, to put it in perspective, there's this guy who's like 60 years old or something. He sleeps on a bench in the park with his guitar clutched in his arms. When he wakes up, he walks around until he finds a place he likes and then he sits down and plays his guitar.
Is that a bad way of life? He does what he does and he doesn't even do it because he thinks he can make a few cents from people passing by. He will die, but when he does, he'll be more satisfied with his life than the majority of the billions of people who continue on with their cushy fucking lives.
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So, I will be getting a BA in music this May. Pretty useless right? Well, I won't really be finding out, because I am immediately going on to graduate school.
I think having a college degree, in any academic field, is always better than not having one for getting a job. The fact that you got one means that you have a certain level of intelligence and were willing to do the required work to get it.
Really, there's not much to be done about supply and demand that dictates the wages for a lot of jobs. Most corporations need accountants and economists, very few need philosophers.
The one exception to this is non-college level teaching. The market is artificially depressed because the government controls a huge share of the market and fails to compete financially for the better individuals.
If you have a PhD though, any field has job opportunities as a professor. It doesn't pay the same kind of money as aerospace engineering or finance, but it's a certain type of lifestyle that allows usually more freedom when choosing what to actually do in your field.
For me, I know I want to pursue a career in some aspect of music, and I accept the fact that I'll never make the money of a finance economist. I'm also getting a BA in math, and I know from the experience that even if I got a lot more money, I would still be unhappy doing that stuff full time.
I think having a college degree, in any academic field, is always better than not having one for getting a job. The fact that you got one means that you have a certain level of intelligence and were willing to do the required work to get it.
Really, there's not much to be done about supply and demand that dictates the wages for a lot of jobs. Most corporations need accountants and economists, very few need philosophers.
The one exception to this is non-college level teaching. The market is artificially depressed because the government controls a huge share of the market and fails to compete financially for the better individuals.
If you have a PhD though, any field has job opportunities as a professor. It doesn't pay the same kind of money as aerospace engineering or finance, but it's a certain type of lifestyle that allows usually more freedom when choosing what to actually do in your field.
For me, I know I want to pursue a career in some aspect of music, and I accept the fact that I'll never make the money of a finance economist. I'm also getting a BA in math, and I know from the experience that even if I got a lot more money, I would still be unhappy doing that stuff full time.
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If I were to put it simply, I'd have to say major in something that'll get you what you want, until your minor (what you love) becomes useful in your dream plans or whatever. That's what I was told to do. After failing a full scholarship for my dream line of work. Obviously, I failed at school, so take what I say (and everyone) with a grain of salt, but don't forget that life is what you make of it.
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TheDarkStarAlchemist
Requests Moderator
Dante1214 wrote...
But I'd rather be shit poor and happy than just moderately poor, bored, and miserable.
agreed. i plan to go into automotive design next year and i know the car industry is on the downhill slope. but i love cars. it's something i've always wanted to do.
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Myself being a Linguistic/Global Studies major with business as a minor... I have thought about career options long and hard...
My dad always told me that the degree isn't getting the job, its the door to get the interview and bragging rights, and I believe that to be fairly true. After having my mother going back to college in my final HS years and obtaining her masters, she still struggled to locate work with her newly found degree.
While I am sticking with linguistics, one of the main reasons I choose to pick such an interesting (yet strange) major is due to the simple fact I can proceed further in it whenever I please, and gives me an open ended escape to travel the world, while still using my talents along the way.
My father has always told me, make money so that at the end of the day you can enjoy whatever you want, and I've always countered saying that I'de rather do what I enjoy my work, and never have to leave it even if I don't make the lavish lifestyle he's chosen for himself. I can still enjoy myself as a middle class citizen and at the end of days, be a prof. for what I've learned...
Just my thoughts... although I do agree there is something wrong with some degrees and no jobs, however no one should argue that one of those generic degrees in "something" should really automatically get a job just because they paid for a degree. (Thoughts going back to 12 year olds becomming black belts... lol, common now?)
My dad always told me that the degree isn't getting the job, its the door to get the interview and bragging rights, and I believe that to be fairly true. After having my mother going back to college in my final HS years and obtaining her masters, she still struggled to locate work with her newly found degree.
While I am sticking with linguistics, one of the main reasons I choose to pick such an interesting (yet strange) major is due to the simple fact I can proceed further in it whenever I please, and gives me an open ended escape to travel the world, while still using my talents along the way.
My father has always told me, make money so that at the end of the day you can enjoy whatever you want, and I've always countered saying that I'de rather do what I enjoy my work, and never have to leave it even if I don't make the lavish lifestyle he's chosen for himself. I can still enjoy myself as a middle class citizen and at the end of days, be a prof. for what I've learned...
Just my thoughts... although I do agree there is something wrong with some degrees and no jobs, however no one should argue that one of those generic degrees in "something" should really automatically get a job just because they paid for a degree. (Thoughts going back to 12 year olds becomming black belts... lol, common now?)
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Long time no see everyone! (was busy studying, so this topic kinda jumped me during the bit of free time I have)
I am currently in my second semester studying German / English and am aiming to be a teacher in the future (hopefully at a school in Germany / Denmark as it would suit with my nationality).
Anyways there are several reasons why such things happen. One thing is that during some random point in their student life people realise that they picked the right thing and don't want to switch to anything new or abort what they are doing, so they just look for the next best job they find.
Another thing that isn't rare around here are people that take up "minor" jobs while looking for a job that suits their criteria.
But yes, if you don't study something that has a broad spectrum of possibilities, the possibility of applying it drops drasticly.
However it is also a result of overpopulated studying sectors as e.g. economics. The problem about it is, that often they think "I want to study" and study the next best thing that is avaible to them or that is in fashion, without thinking of future chances and possibilities... and end up as busdrivers because they can't find a job because their grades were too average to get a good job.
I am currently in my second semester studying German / English and am aiming to be a teacher in the future (hopefully at a school in Germany / Denmark as it would suit with my nationality).
Anyways there are several reasons why such things happen. One thing is that during some random point in their student life people realise that they picked the right thing and don't want to switch to anything new or abort what they are doing, so they just look for the next best job they find.
Another thing that isn't rare around here are people that take up "minor" jobs while looking for a job that suits their criteria.
But yes, if you don't study something that has a broad spectrum of possibilities, the possibility of applying it drops drasticly.
However it is also a result of overpopulated studying sectors as e.g. economics. The problem about it is, that often they think "I want to study" and study the next best thing that is avaible to them or that is in fashion, without thinking of future chances and possibilities... and end up as busdrivers because they can't find a job because their grades were too average to get a good job.
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I really need to take the time to read through all the replies in this thread.
Anyway, the following would be my 2 cents worth of opinion regarding the dilemma of studying a subject one enjoys or taking up another which will most likely be useful in future:
The pefect scenario is one where a student enjoys a particular subject which is deemed to be practical. However, more often than not, students will not get the best of both worlds. I would assume it is easier to score better grades when someone is studying what s/he enjoys; those who enroll in a practical degree course, without having any interest in it, may find the entire studying journey torturous, only to obtain poor grades upon graduation, which defeats the original purpose of securing a good future.
Anyway, the following would be my 2 cents worth of opinion regarding the dilemma of studying a subject one enjoys or taking up another which will most likely be useful in future:
The pefect scenario is one where a student enjoys a particular subject which is deemed to be practical. However, more often than not, students will not get the best of both worlds. I would assume it is easier to score better grades when someone is studying what s/he enjoys; those who enroll in a practical degree course, without having any interest in it, may find the entire studying journey torturous, only to obtain poor grades upon graduation, which defeats the original purpose of securing a good future.
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Dante1214 wrote...
education means considerably less than connections, these days.So true, it's painful from where I'm standing.
I'm currently in the process of wrapping up my Chemistry studies that devoured the last 5 years of my life and honestly ... I'm scared shitless about my immediate future. From what knowledge I managed to gather, the job market isn't too crowded in this devision simply because there are very few Chemistry graduates (the reasons being the extreme difficulty level and moving on towards a PhD as a natural course of action). Nevertheless, people like me, who wish to work after graduating are usually payed pathetic money or need some major connections.
Things don't look much brighter if I chose to aim towards a PhD myself. As far as my university is concerned, those next 4 years seem even harder than it is currently and completely prevent you from working somewhere else in the meantime (due to the amount of work) while paying little more than crap. To make things even more promising, I often hear about a PhD being deemed over-qualified while applying for a position, meaning that I'd probably be forced to stay in the university/science business till the end. A PhD abroad is a far more lucrative option but it's a pretty big decision and I wouldn't be too happy leaving my country.
I definitely chose my current direction based on interests (I wouldn't call it love) and doubt I'm gonna regret the choice but it's still fucking infuriating that people who needed to put far less effort in graduating in their specialization, will find it easier to find a good, well-payed job than I.
Still (perhaps somewhat more on-topic) that very interest I've mentioned earlier made it possible for me to survive those last few years without dropping out and I will always believe one should find one particular thing he's good at (and enjoys it) and master it, rather that go for the sheer money alone. No matter the financial gain, you always loose much of yourself if you chose the latter.