hey guys

You're right, there's nothing wrong in owning something oneself has created. Except when that something is worldwide and when said owner has backroom dealings and other meanings to spy everyone everywhere (the recent Yahoo scandal) and police any site anywhere (Megaupload and more recently kickass torrent), then it's as luinthoron said - this isn't about selling government property illegaly, this is about mpt wanting to forfeit a considerable control over the world's informations, a control America has apparently enjoyed a lot in the past decades, especially since 9/11.

Also, whoever's part of the UN is irrelevant, because in the end only the permanent members of the Security Council have any kind of power, and guess what Uncle Sam is among them.

By the way, no one's applauding here, I don't have anything against you, hell I don't even know you and couldn't care less about who you are. But I also happen to appreciate being an EU citizen despite her many, many flaws, so I felt offended by your remarks, especially under the assumption that they came from an American (again, if you are one, if you are not I spoke out of turn and you have my apologies for getting riled up for nothing).

Just because a service is worldwide, doesn't entitle you to ownership of it. Then by that logic, companies that operate in an international level are a belonging to individual governments/people? No, they just comply by the law of the land or try to reach a beneficial compromise.

And who's to say these backroom dealers aren't actually worse under the UN? It's like...I didn't post any links or anything showcasing their behavior and history.
Every point is ignored because "LOL fuck america". And Piracy and sites like those are a COMPLETELY different subject. Even under 3rd party control, companies can still take legal actions against kickasstorrents or mega. The fact that people think that is an actual argument towards this specific subject in mind numbing stupid.

I didn't say that you can't have that mindset. All I said was that; it's this kind of mindset that lets the elites basically get away with murder.

I didn't say anything about "activism." The only people that actually believes that such things make a positive difference are millennials or those who are extremely naive/ stupid.

No, one of the most effective ways to fix a corrupt government is a bloody revolution.

If they comply by the law, sure. Too bad most don't, again look at the Yahoo scandal. By the way, why were you so quick to mention piracy, which is admittedly a minor thing, and not the leak of millions of private accounts to US authorities?

And no, I'm not anti-American, though I question many of her actions and decisions, both contemporary and of the past decades, but I'm just one droplet in the ocean so who am I to understand such things.

Also, I see why they told me you're opinionated.

>Who am I to understand such things

why don't you study and find out?

Why write yourself off based on who you are rather than what you WANT to do?

Again, how is the UN immune to doing things worse than than the Yahoo scandal. They've already stated they want to make the internet a safer space for everyone. If that doesn't scream 1984 then I don't know what does.

>you're opinionated don't respond

No. Unless you show me proof that the links I used weren't reputable sources, that the UN isn't terribly incompetent and malicious, or that this issue is about IP and IP protection. Otherwise you're repeating the same thing someone already said but trying to sound like you're the "better" person despite not actually arguing against anything.

It's genuinely frustrating hearing people say the same thing without disproving anything I said, not bringing up another 3rd party organization, or by saying the UN can be changed, but the US can't. Ironically forgetting that the guy who's behind it is leaving office soon, same guy they mostly approved off, while rooting for the candidate that promised to continue to do everything he does.

This touches things I'd prefer to keep private, but let's just say I too don't believe that my opinion matters in the end, not where it counts at least. If you want to agree you agree, if you don't you don't, and life goes on.



Have I ever said, in this thread, that the UN is better and won't abuse its power over the internet if it gains control of it?

When the Secretary General gives a speech, I often comment on how much of a puppet he is, because in the end his speeches are like the Pope's - they're speeches and nothing else. The General Assembly may call for this or that or the other thing, but if the big powers disagree, then it's all for nothing. Heck, I expect nothing from the UN to be perfectly honest, not because it's corrupt or 'malicious' as you call it (what a word), but because it's powerless. Any resolution the Security Council comes up with can be easily vetoed, as it has happened plenty of times.

Also, I didn't post in this thread to debate if you're right of wrong, nor to prove or disprove anything. I simply felt offended by your accusations against the EU, especially the one concerning Africa - you most certainly know we're facing a migrant crisis of unprecedented proportions, and I happen to live in one of the countries that receive the most refugees after Greece.

personally, the fact that:

They tried to force Japan to censor their porn industry.

Had Emma Watson make a speech about how men need to be feminists,

Had Anita Sarkeesian and Zoe Quin come and cry about how oppressed they are online.

And other crap that I can't remember off the top of my head.

Should be enough to show how inept the UN has become as an organization.



So you don't value your own opinion but you're willing to argue with people online over it?

edit:

When the hell did this convo get moved to SD?

Why did you come in here with your own opinions but not even try to back them up with substance?

I even agreed that a possible 3rd party without much outside influence and a good track record would be beneficial for all but nothing came from it. The truth is there is no straight up black and whites in almost any issue and refusing to even talk about it is even more useless than coming in and out with a refusal to compromise or learn.

I'm a more or less a libertarian who's extremely cautious of our own government, but you're telling me I shouldn't support the US because of their dealings with companies like Yahoo and Windows, but should go with the UN who has similar dealings with Google and twitter. The EU specifically so they can arrest people for making "harassing tweets"?

@renovartio

Waar's whim. Didn't break any IB rules but he wants it here so it's going to be here.

I don't value it WHERE IT COUNTS. One forum on the internet is hardly a place that counts imho. I mean, I can say what I think, but that's it, it's up to the others to agree or not.

And seeing how this is going, I should've just ignored this thread and not get riled up by Cruz's accusations.

For that, I apologize and bid you gentlemen a good debate, next time I'll be more careful.

so what you're saying is that you're only interested if people agree with you?

Or rather, you don't actually care what other people think, you just want to say what you think without regard for disagreement?

And do you think enough people are willing to risk their lives, possibly fighting the military even, to do this?

Also, do we even know who our enemies really are?

For all we know, it's every elected official sitting in office now, but there could be more people we obviously don't know about who have pull in the government.

Corporations, really, really rich backers, etc.

It's like, just to root out the corruption, you'd have to slaughter tens of thousands, and then you'd just become a bunch of murderers anyway.

If we wanted to return to principles of justice and equality, it's far too late for that.

Fighting the government is just generally a bad idea, they have soldiers with superior weapons and training, who may or may not destroy threats to the current government, but I'm going to guess they probably will.

See, it would be effective, I can concur, if it was actually possible at this point.

But it's not. You're not going to win in a show of force with the military or the government.

Especially not in this digital information age where weapons and communications are both quite advanced, and the military and government have access to the best of both while civilians receive less effective versions.

The people in power already considered the possibility of people revolting with force of arms and took the time to plan effective countermeasures.

At this point, we've waited too long for revolution of any kind to be viable, unless the entire country is hit with a mass-scale EMP, but then we're just as likely to be invaded by a hostile country.

Not to mention, even then the military still has superior training to deal with such situations compared to average citizens.

You may call me a pessimist, but it's still a realistic view on the outcome of what you described.

Being optimistic with such things would actually be stupid, you have to consider the worst case scenarios first if you ever want to succeed at a massive scale.

Not that I believe you, me, or anyone else here has an ice cream cone's chance in hell at doing so.

I offer my view on the matter if I have one, then those who read it or listen to it are free to react as they see fit. Of course, I try to be civil and don't spout outrageous stuff, unless I know the one I'm talking/writing to is open-minded enough. I also believe I can't judge someone because of their opinion unless, again, they just said something truly outrageous (like 'North Korea is a bastion of democracy').

To try and be a bit more on-topic, I posted here because, as I said, I felt offended by Cruz's remarks on the EU. However, I also believe in the United Nations more than I believe in America, hence why I felt the decision to give control of the internet to the UN was acceptable (and anyway, since it's the permanent members who dictate what happens in the UN, will anything really change that much?). Nevertheless, I also agree with Cruz because, while I don't hold America in high esteem, I also acknowledge the powerlesness of the UN and the divided and weak state of the contemporary EU.

With this hopefully clarified, as I said before I've overstayed my welcome in this thread.