Laws Against Aiding Homeless
0
THIS IS NOT A VIDEO THREAD
Report: http://www.nationalhomeless.org/publications/crimreport/CrimzReport_2009.pdf
In case your browser won't open it: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?vznlzgmfdjc
Some cocksuckers are making it illegal to aid the homeless in America? The supposed land of the free? The place where the stupid pledge says, "with liberty and justice for all"? It's not like I believed we were "free" to begin with, but fucking criminalizing shit like asking for money, and feeding homeless people is fucking ridiculous. Outlawing compassion. Fucking great.
I don't know about you people but making a law punishing those for helping others who aren't so fortunate just pisses me the fuck off.
0
Heh "the most evil law that I've ever heard of in America". Should buy him a copy of the U.S. code, or any state-level legal code, and send him screaming.
Punishing helpfulness is not a good thing though, and simply criminalizing the homeless is the typically idiotic approach I'd expect of politicians. Politicians are this special breed of people who turn up the stereo if their car's making odd noises, and they use the same approach to policy-making in office. QED.
Punishing helpfulness is not a good thing though, and simply criminalizing the homeless is the typically idiotic approach I'd expect of politicians. Politicians are this special breed of people who turn up the stereo if their car's making odd noises, and they use the same approach to policy-making in office. QED.
Arbitor69 wrote...
looks like NWO starts to show up =O
0
We had many a discussion about homelessness in my past English class. THE prime con-"help the homeless" arguements were that if you give a poor person money that they'll use it for drugs, that homeless people will pester you for food and rob you if you feed them or clothe them, etc.
We had a cop come in (worked for the neighboring city) who talked about a homeless man who he knew that slept in a church every night on a pew then got up and left each morning before the church staff punched in. He left it at those details, asked us what we thought and the two main responses were "If he wasn't stealing, ruining property, etc. he had the right to sleep there" and "It's trespassing, even though the janitor propped the door open to allow him in every night. Both should get in trouble". Turns out, the cop was the homeless man. I would have NEVER guessed, since the homeless man is perceived as dirty and run-down looking. I know that it'd been a long time but he had no look to him that he was once homeless.
I think that it is unfortunate that we live in a society where people who're models, sports players, etc. who do nothing productive during off seasons or away from shows still get paid a extreme balance. There are children whose mothers and fathers actually work but get paid low wages. How is this okay?
We had a cop come in (worked for the neighboring city) who talked about a homeless man who he knew that slept in a church every night on a pew then got up and left each morning before the church staff punched in. He left it at those details, asked us what we thought and the two main responses were "If he wasn't stealing, ruining property, etc. he had the right to sleep there" and "It's trespassing, even though the janitor propped the door open to allow him in every night. Both should get in trouble". Turns out, the cop was the homeless man. I would have NEVER guessed, since the homeless man is perceived as dirty and run-down looking. I know that it'd been a long time but he had no look to him that he was once homeless.
I think that it is unfortunate that we live in a society where people who're models, sports players, etc. who do nothing productive during off seasons or away from shows still get paid a extreme balance. There are children whose mothers and fathers actually work but get paid low wages. How is this okay?
0
I can understand the reasoning behind that law though. America loses shitload of money through people feeding ho- OH WAIT, IT DOESN'T. Sleeping on a park bench is illegal at you guys over there? Gonna give me death sentence if they catch me tree climbing? I'm not even sure if this was all serious, I mean, is this really real? What the fuck.
But I liked how the dude got angrier the longer his speech went on. He's charismatic.
But I liked how the dude got angrier the longer his speech went on. He's charismatic.
0
nacho wrote...
I can understand the reasoning behind that law though. America loses shitload of money through people feeding ho- OH WAIT, IT DOESN'T. Sleeping on a park bench is illegal at you guys over there? Gonna give me death sentence if they catch me tree climbing? I'm not even sure if this was all serious, I mean, is this really real? What the fuck.But I liked how the dude got angrier the longer his speech went on. He's charismatic.
they call it "loitering" over here. Fortunately, there's no homeless people in my city so we're just yelling at kids who stand around shop. However, there are many homeless near where I'm moving to. I was told to avoid them but it pisses me off that they're homeless so I might talk to some :3 And donate to a shelter.
It isn't fair that some are homeless, even when it comes to financial situations.
0
America, getting more fucked up in the years to come
motherfucking politicians need some Akumestu up in this shit!
motherfucking politicians need some Akumestu up in this shit!
0
Brittany
Director of Production
Every time I've ever seen a homeless person, I've always wondered if they would take help or suck up the help and abuse it.
Like, for whatever reason, I always played with the idea of getting to know one, inviting them home letting them get cleaned up, groomed, and some new clothes - help them get a job and get a regular income. Let them stay with you and save up for a small apartment. Not that I want to - but the scenario often crossed my mind.
I often wondered if a homeless person would graciously accept your help and use it to help them get on their feet, or deceive you and take off with your things when you're looking the other way by taking advantage of you.
Like, for whatever reason, I always played with the idea of getting to know one, inviting them home letting them get cleaned up, groomed, and some new clothes - help them get a job and get a regular income. Let them stay with you and save up for a small apartment. Not that I want to - but the scenario often crossed my mind.
I often wondered if a homeless person would graciously accept your help and use it to help them get on their feet, or deceive you and take off with your things when you're looking the other way by taking advantage of you.
0
Isn't that like the movie "Pretty Woman"?
But the thing is homeless people come in all shapes and sizes. So one is homeless because he is a druggy that got kicked out of the house by his mom. The other is a family man who got into a divorce, lost his home, and doesn't have money to support his kids and have a place to stay.
Besides, these laws give the police the abilty to arrest them, and give them a place to stay the night. It's not like they get locked away.
They do they same in japan, there aren't alot of homeless on the street because they take them away so they don't die of the cold.
It is a REALLY old law in chicago(?) to that you can't slee under the stars at night, as an excuse to be able to get help to old people. The dude on the video is just inductively reasoning these laws into a bigger overall problem that isn't as bad as he says.
But the thing is homeless people come in all shapes and sizes. So one is homeless because he is a druggy that got kicked out of the house by his mom. The other is a family man who got into a divorce, lost his home, and doesn't have money to support his kids and have a place to stay.
Besides, these laws give the police the abilty to arrest them, and give them a place to stay the night. It's not like they get locked away.
They do they same in japan, there aren't alot of homeless on the street because they take them away so they don't die of the cold.
It is a REALLY old law in chicago(?) to that you can't slee under the stars at night, as an excuse to be able to get help to old people. The dude on the video is just inductively reasoning these laws into a bigger overall problem that isn't as bad as he says.
0
I usually get verbally abused by bums who don't like the fact that I can't give them a buck or two. I do when I can and want to, but not every day. Making it illegal is not something I would want to see happen, though. I happen to like seeing them on the corner. I can't explain why, I guess it's easiest to say I take comfort from knowing shit happens and I should keep going.
0
Brittany
Director of Production
I'm sure there are movies with that scenario in it. But it's just always been a thought since I was little. Every day my mom and I drove past this one bench where a person normally sat. I remember one time I had Twizzlers and thought about if they'd like one too.
But, with the prison thing. People do shit to get sent to prison. A lot of times homeless people who are sent to jail, when they're released - they do something to go back into jail. They get 3 meals a day, plus snack machines. They get a bed, bath, and able to exercise.
My brother has been in jail for 13 months and has been in Boot camp for 5 months. He'll be released in August, but when I last went to visit him at prison he told me you could save up money (by like working in the kitchen for less then .50 an hour) and actually get a flat screen HD TV for your cell. Or if someone gave you money for one.
Jail isn't so much jail anymore. And guess what folks? We pay for that.
But, with the prison thing. People do shit to get sent to prison. A lot of times homeless people who are sent to jail, when they're released - they do something to go back into jail. They get 3 meals a day, plus snack machines. They get a bed, bath, and able to exercise.
My brother has been in jail for 13 months and has been in Boot camp for 5 months. He'll be released in August, but when I last went to visit him at prison he told me you could save up money (by like working in the kitchen for less then .50 an hour) and actually get a flat screen HD TV for your cell. Or if someone gave you money for one.
Jail isn't so much jail anymore. And guess what folks? We pay for that.
0
Yeah, I know what ziggy is saying. My friend went to jail, he said it wasn't bad where he was. He played basketball in the afternoon, watched espn in the lunchroom, served lunch to people, read alot of books, and went out to pick up trash in some senic places. But I don't think he'd want to GO BACK to jail. Still jail isn't so much a jail anymore, unless you go to maximum.
Back on topic: If you really want to do something, buy them something to eat. If you don't want to give them money, buy what you would of given them the money for. I saw someone digging through a trash can infront of a taco bell, and said to my girlfriend, "if we give him money do you think he'll go buy something to eat" and she said just to make sure lets buy it for him. So I stood outside making sure he didn't leave, and she went inside and got something really fast.
I went up to him and said "you know that isn't the best thing to be doing" and he said somethin like he rather not be doing it. I handed him a bag of burrittos and said something like I'm rooting for ya, and smiled and left.
I felt really good the rest of the day.
Back on topic: If you really want to do something, buy them something to eat. If you don't want to give them money, buy what you would of given them the money for. I saw someone digging through a trash can infront of a taco bell, and said to my girlfriend, "if we give him money do you think he'll go buy something to eat" and she said just to make sure lets buy it for him. So I stood outside making sure he didn't leave, and she went inside and got something really fast.
I went up to him and said "you know that isn't the best thing to be doing" and he said somethin like he rather not be doing it. I handed him a bag of burrittos and said something like I'm rooting for ya, and smiled and left.
I felt really good the rest of the day.
0
OT:
The fun thing is, no matter how much you approve or disapprove of loitering, begging, or whatever, punitive measures aren't going to change the bigger picture. Either serious, structural change is brought about, or everything stays the same.
My money's on the latter.
Spoiler:
The fun thing is, no matter how much you approve or disapprove of loitering, begging, or whatever, punitive measures aren't going to change the bigger picture. Either serious, structural change is brought about, or everything stays the same.
My money's on the latter.
0
Well they don't put these homeless people in jail as a form of punishment. It isn't like they are saying "if you don't stop being homeless we are going to through you into jail - where btw we will feed you and provide showers".
They are doing it to keep up the apperance of cities so business will move in, so people wont be afraid to walk downtown, and so these homeless don't die on the street.
They are doing it to keep up the apperance of cities so business will move in, so people wont be afraid to walk downtown, and so these homeless don't die on the street.
0
razama wrote...
Well they don't put these homeless people in jail as a form of punishment. It isn't like they are saying "if you don't stop being homeless we are going to through you into jail - where btw we will feed you and provide showers".They are doing it to keep up the apperance of cities so business will move in, so people wont be afraid to walk downtown, and so these homeless don't die on the street.
I'll simply be quoting the report from the original post:
Los Angeles, CA. According to a study by UCLA released in September 2007,
Los Angeles was spending $6 million a year to pay for fifty extra police officers
as part of its Safe City Initiative to crack down on crime in the Skid Row area at a
time when the city budgeted only $5.7 million for homeless services. Advocates
found that during an 11-month period 24 people were arrested 201 times, with an
estimated cost of $3.6 million for use of police, the jail system, prosecutors,
public defenders and the courts. Advocates asserted that the money could have
instead provided supportive housing for 225 people. Many of the citations issued
to homeless persons in the Skid Row area were for jaywalking and loitering --
“crimes” that rarely produce written citations in other parts of Los Angeles.
Los Angeles was spending $6 million a year to pay for fifty extra police officers
as part of its Safe City Initiative to crack down on crime in the Skid Row area at a
time when the city budgeted only $5.7 million for homeless services. Advocates
found that during an 11-month period 24 people were arrested 201 times, with an
estimated cost of $3.6 million for use of police, the jail system, prosecutors,
public defenders and the courts. Advocates asserted that the money could have
instead provided supportive housing for 225 people. Many of the citations issued
to homeless persons in the Skid Row area were for jaywalking and loitering --
“crimes” that rarely produce written citations in other parts of Los Angeles.
Hmmmmmm.
Constructive Alternatives to Criminalization
Daytona Beach, FL. In order to reduce the need for panhandling, a coalition of
service providers, business groups, and the City of Daytona Beach began a
program that provides homeless participants with jobs and housing. While in the
Downtown Street Team program, participants are hired to clean up downtown
Daytona Beach and are provided initially with shelter and subsequently with
transitional housing. A number of participants have moved on from the program
to other full-time jobs and housing.
Daytona Beach, FL. In order to reduce the need for panhandling, a coalition of
service providers, business groups, and the City of Daytona Beach began a
program that provides homeless participants with jobs and housing. While in the
Downtown Street Team program, participants are hired to clean up downtown
Daytona Beach and are provided initially with shelter and subsequently with
transitional housing. A number of participants have moved on from the program
to other full-time jobs and housing.
Hmmmmmm.
Looks to me like criminalization ("putting people in jail") does not work nearly as well, both in terms of cost-effectiveness and sustainability, as wholly different and constructive approaches do.
And, humbly beg to differ, but that does sound like a punitive measure to me:
Recently, cities have indirectly targeted homeless people by restricting service providers’
food sharing programs.38 Historically, cities have attempted to restrict food sharing on
providers’ property through zoning laws. More recently, some cities have passed laws to
restrict food sharing in public spaces, such as parks. Some courts have found that food
sharing restrictions can violate religious groups’ right to freely exercise their religious
beliefs.39 Further, at least one court found that one food sharing restriction also infringed
on the right to free speech.40
food sharing programs.38 Historically, cities have attempted to restrict food sharing on
providers’ property through zoning laws. More recently, some cities have passed laws to
restrict food sharing in public spaces, such as parks. Some courts have found that food
sharing restrictions can violate religious groups’ right to freely exercise their religious
beliefs.39 Further, at least one court found that one food sharing restriction also infringed
on the right to free speech.40
Which, by the by, does plenty little to ensure "these homeless don't die on the street."
0
Man don't post stuff about skid road unless you've been there. That is a unique situation. It is like a lawless area without... hope really... I know, I've had to FUCKING STAY THERE.
Second, just cause they use the money for housing, do you think homeless will actually stay there? that is so naive it is ridiculous. If they wanted to stay someplace on someone else's dime, there are already places for that. Why do you think people dig through the damn trash can when there is soup kitchens?
Lastly, those police patroling skid road did a hell of alot more then just arrest people for jaywalking. They probably stopped women from getting raped in the street as well.
Seriously, the naivete that arises when people use statistics..
Second, just cause they use the money for housing, do you think homeless will actually stay there? that is so naive it is ridiculous. If they wanted to stay someplace on someone else's dime, there are already places for that. Why do you think people dig through the damn trash can when there is soup kitchens?
Lastly, those police patroling skid road did a hell of alot more then just arrest people for jaywalking. They probably stopped women from getting raped in the street as well.
Seriously, the naivete that arises when people use statistics..
0
Man don't post stuff about skid road unless you've been there. That is a unique situation. It is like a lawless area without... hope really... I know, I've had to FUCKING STAY THERE.
Awkay pardner, nice use of apocryphal personal accounts to deny me the right to post as I please. It is not necessary to have lain in a frying pan in order to write about beefsteak. (Gorky)
Well, ever onward then, Nixon:
Second, just cause they use the money for housing, do you think homeless will actually stay there?
As opposed to the jails where they'll...also not stay, but be taken in and discharged from in rapid sequence, but at lower cost-efficiency.
Furthermore, the second quote which you so graciously ignored acknowledges very well that more than just shelter is required, as it speaks of work programmes being an integral part of reintegrating the homeless into working society.
Lastly, those police patroling skid road did a hell of alot more then just arrest people for jaywalking. They probably stopped women from getting raped in the street as well.
Nice try with the moral panic, but not only does that not work on me, it's """probably""" also not related to the topic, which is about the use of zoning and loitering laws to hush up the homeless problem cities face, and about cities cracking down on food sharing programmes.
Seriously, the naivete that arises when people use statistics..
Seriously, the ad-hominems people resort to when they cannot muster better arguments..
0
Okay gibbous, instead of analyzing the way I post, how about beter addressing the fact that even if you spent the money to help these people with housing and so forth, the same problem arises. You can't make them take advantage of these things, there are already programs in place that people ignore, and a bum would rather be out on the street and freeze to death then go into a shelter.
Now sure, not all homeless are so prideful. But for those who aren't, silly laws are made to forcefully remove them from the streets.
The video almost implies that the government is keeping people from helping homeless and arresting homeless themselves just to be bullies.
Now sure, not all homeless are so prideful. But for those who aren't, silly laws are made to forcefully remove them from the streets.
The video almost implies that the government is keeping people from helping homeless and arresting homeless themselves just to be bullies.
0
Brittany
Director of Production
I actually remember watching a youtube video (almost certain from here) about a man who every year threw a big BBQ for the homeless people. Where the police actually arrested him, because he was having an event with too many people and too little supervisors or something like that in public.
Pretty lame. If anyone can think of the Youtube video I'm talking about and show it, +rep
Pretty lame. If anyone can think of the Youtube video I'm talking about and show it, +rep