Muhammad and the 1st Amendment
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As some of you may know the recent South Park Episodes "200" and "201" were heavily censored, but the many swear words weren't the only thing being censored, in this case it was the prophet of the Muslim faith, Muhammad. Every appearance of the prophet was obscured by everything from a black bar to a U-haul to a bear costume. The original intent was to mock the response in 2005 to the Danish caricature of Muhammad. However between the airing of "200" and "201" a threatening post was made on the new york website "revolution Muslim" predicting the grisly fate that awaited South Park creators Trey Parker and Matt Stone if they continued to insult the prophet.
In response to this post Viacom heavily edited the episode Matt and Trey presented to them. Removing all direct references to Muhammad not only editing out his image but his name as well. They have also removed all other episodes featuring Muhammad like "the super best friends".
While I can understand their reasons I can't support their actions. We can't allow terrorists to dictate our actions. At the point where our actions are dictated by the fear of repercussion from militant radicals, then all pretense of our freedoms are thrown out of the window. We cannot allow these monsters to destroy our most sacred of rights, the right to speak freely.
In response to this post Viacom heavily edited the episode Matt and Trey presented to them. Removing all direct references to Muhammad not only editing out his image but his name as well. They have also removed all other episodes featuring Muhammad like "the super best friends".
While I can understand their reasons I can't support their actions. We can't allow terrorists to dictate our actions. At the point where our actions are dictated by the fear of repercussion from militant radicals, then all pretense of our freedoms are thrown out of the window. We cannot allow these monsters to destroy our most sacred of rights, the right to speak freely.
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lemiel wrote...
While I can understand their reasons I can't support their actions. We can't allow terrorists to dictate our actions. At the point where our actions are dictated by the fear of repercussion from militant radicals, then all pretense of our freedoms are thrown out of the window. We cannot allow these monsters to destroy our most sacred of rights, the right to speak freely.Not every Muslim is a terrorist. If you mock a devout Christian by tell him the pope is a pedophile and that there is no god, he will end up saying things that may be threatening. Same for every other religion. You mock their beliefs, using the first amendment as an excuse, they believe dedicate themselves and put their faith above the law. Hell, in many parts of the middle east, their faith is pretty much the law.
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No different than the Spanish Inquisitions and other severe past abuses. Someone always has to repeat the past (they do not have to repeat the past but ???????? beware of zealots!!!!!)
Not every Muslim is a terrorist. If you mock a devout Christian by tell him the pope is a pedophile and that there is no god, he will end up saying things that may be threatening. Same for every other religion. You mock their beliefs, using the first amendment as an excuse, they believe dedicate themselves and put their faith above the law. Hell, in many parts of the middle east, their faith is pretty much the law.
Please change Christians to Catholics. The Pope is head of the Catholic church. Christians can be Lutherans who have their own Synods (two of them) which leads their church. The Anglicans have their own leaders who run the Anglican Church. I , not sure, but Baptists have more than one leader; There is the Southern Baptists who run their own. There are the Quakers, Mennonites, Seventh Day Adventist, Presbyterians and hundreds of other Christian factions.
No one fears Catholic or Christian zealots except for Abortionists. I have never heard anyone from a non Catholic/Christian country write a cartoon or a book this bad and have to live in fear like Rushdie in England and that cartoonist in Denmark.
So DRuffy when the Muslims burn some Bibles; I should nuke that country????? Just to put long term fear in them?????????
MoneyDRuffy wrote...
lemiel wrote...
While I can understand their reasons I can't support their actions. We can't allow terrorists to dictate our actions. At the point where our actions are dictated by the fear of repercussion from militant radicals, then all pretense of our freedoms are thrown out of the window. We cannot allow these monsters to destroy our most sacred of rights, the right to speak freely.Not every Muslim is a terrorist. If you mock a devout Christian by tell him the pope is a pedophile and that there is no god, he will end up saying things that may be threatening. Same for every other religion. You mock their beliefs, using the first amendment as an excuse, they believe dedicate themselves and put their faith above the law. Hell, in many parts of the middle east, their faith is pretty much the law.
Please change Christians to Catholics. The Pope is head of the Catholic church. Christians can be Lutherans who have their own Synods (two of them) which leads their church. The Anglicans have their own leaders who run the Anglican Church. I , not sure, but Baptists have more than one leader; There is the Southern Baptists who run their own. There are the Quakers, Mennonites, Seventh Day Adventist, Presbyterians and hundreds of other Christian factions.
No one fears Catholic or Christian zealots except for Abortionists. I have never heard anyone from a non Catholic/Christian country write a cartoon or a book this bad and have to live in fear like Rushdie in England and that cartoonist in Denmark.
So DRuffy when the Muslims burn some Bibles; I should nuke that country????? Just to put long term fear in them?????????
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Unfortuantely, those zealous muslims are just the radical few that forgot the fact that this is life and we're all humans, so their believes and opinions do not outweight our's.
I have a few muslim friends that watched uncencored version of south park 200/201 and loved it. They felt that it was just humorous, like how Jesus is portrayed at times in funny roles. They felt that this kind of threatening stance is just too much for something that wasn't even meant to be taken seriously.
But of course, considering the kind of condition the muslim home countries are in, where nothing that deviates from the accepted norm is allowed, that open-mindedness is probably a rarity. Them being immigrants, it's not hard to see that they may not understand the comedic atmosphere surrounding south park, and what it represent for the people in North America.
Now imagine if, while surfing the net, they accidently wondered into 4chan...
I have a few muslim friends that watched uncencored version of south park 200/201 and loved it. They felt that it was just humorous, like how Jesus is portrayed at times in funny roles. They felt that this kind of threatening stance is just too much for something that wasn't even meant to be taken seriously.
But of course, considering the kind of condition the muslim home countries are in, where nothing that deviates from the accepted norm is allowed, that open-mindedness is probably a rarity. Them being immigrants, it's not hard to see that they may not understand the comedic atmosphere surrounding south park, and what it represent for the people in North America.
Now imagine if, while surfing the net, they accidently wondered into 4chan...
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MoneyDRuffy wrote...
lemiel wrote...
While I can understand their reasons I can't support their actions. We can't allow terrorists to dictate our actions. At the point where our actions are dictated by the fear of repercussion from militant radicals, then all pretense of our freedoms are thrown out of the window. We cannot allow these monsters to destroy our most sacred of rights, the right to speak freely.Not every Muslim is a terrorist. If you mock a devout Christian by tell him the pope is a pedophile and that there is no god, he will end up saying things that may be threatening. Same for every other religion. You mock their beliefs, using the first amendment as an excuse, they believe dedicate themselves and put their faith above the law. Hell, in many parts of the middle east, their faith is pretty much the law.
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MoneyDRuffy wrote...
Not every Muslim is a terrorist.While every Muslims isn't a terrorists, most terrorists are Muslim.
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matt stone and trey parker push thier jokes too far!
now they they are being treated to be killed they censor the show
i dont want to say they deserve a death treat but now they are getting a reality check that there are things you just cant make fun of.one episode that offended me is that episode were the virgin mary statue has her period thats pushing shit too far.
How would you feel if matt and trey got killed?
now they they are being treated to be killed they censor the show
i dont want to say they deserve a death treat but now they are getting a reality check that there are things you just cant make fun of.one episode that offended me is that episode were the virgin mary statue has her period thats pushing shit too far.
How would you feel if matt and trey got killed?
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Harmonian wrote...
While every Muslims isn't a terrorists, most terrorists are Muslim.Not really, but I'm guessing this is a "troll".
Harmonian wrote...
I just can't properly convey the stupidity found in the above post.I just can't do it justice.
Better?
Spoiler:
On topic
Personally, I don't care very much about the censoring. It sucks for those who like the show enough to care that it was censored. I happen to know quite a few people who do like the show that much, but eh... it's not the end of the world. Shit stuff is censored all the fucking time.
See?
Also..
MoneyDRuffy wrote...
You mock their beliefs, using the first amendment as an excuse...This is so true, in more cases than few. People say whatever they want (even if they know that their words are offensive and may provoke a harsh response) and then they hide behind the first amendment, saying they deserve to say it and shouldn't be punished. It's like calling a black a "nigger", a jew a "kike", a white a "honkey", or a hispanic a "spic" and then screaming "FREEDOM OF SPEECHS! FIRST AMENDMUNT. YOU CAN'T HIT ME OR GET MAD."
It's ridiculous and using the first amendment as a scapegoat.
Edit: P.S. Hopefully nobody takes the racist words as being meant to cause offense. If you do, I can't blame you. But hey, I used more races than one to be fair~
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MoneyDRuffy wrote...
lemiel wrote...
While I can understand their reasons I can't support their actions. We can't allow terrorists to dictate our actions. At the point where our actions are dictated by the fear of repercussion from militant radicals, then all pretense of our freedoms are thrown out of the window. We cannot allow these monsters to destroy our most sacred of rights, the right to speak freely.Not every Muslim is a terrorist. If you mock a devout Christian by tell him the pope is a pedophile and that there is no god, he will end up saying things that may be threatening. Same for every other religion. You mock their beliefs, using the first amendment as an excuse, they believe dedicate themselves and put their faith above the law. Hell, in many parts of the middle east, their faith is pretty much the law.
At no point did I say that ALL Muslims are terrorists. This is one of the problems with these kinds of issues. People are so anxious to be politically correct and PROVE that they aren't racist they will defend actions that are absolutely unconscionable.
And I am a Christian, not a catholic, but a christian. If a man were to come to me and say there were no God, I would certainly disagree but for god's sake he has every right be able to say it. If a man were to tell me that the pope were a pedophile, I would disagree, but say that it seems like he makes it easier for Catholic Priestophiles. I wouldn't threaten him unless he were violent in his opinions.
As Voltaire said "I disapprove of what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
MonkeyDRuffy wrote...
Hell, in many parts of the middle east, their faith is pretty much the law.And this is right and OK how?
MonkeyDRuffy wrote...
You mock their beliefs, using the first amendment as an excuseWhen did I mock their beliefs?
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Kaimax
Best Master-San
lemiel wrote...
MonkeyDRuffy wrote...
You mock their beliefs, using the first amendment as an excuseWhen did I mock their beliefs?
He did NOT say that...
the whole "Free Speech right" is broken, since you can just go "Mock" someone and say, "It's an opinion, I have the right to say an opinion."
But then this problem need to be looked from the perspective of the "Ethics of being a human being"
The whole Episode of this is legal, but do you think that it's ethically correct?
From one side you'll see that it's just an "expression" of free speech right, But what about you see from the other "side"?
Do they see as it as entertaining as it should be, NO it's not for them, and this is why the send that threat to the South park Creators.
Seriously,
People need to think if their actions is ethically correct or not, and try to see the problem from many perspectives.
if modern people like us, still can't do that, I'm afraid that World war 3 will break out sooner or later....
Point is, People should look far beyond the rules that are protecting them.
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MoneyDRuffy wrote...
Not every Muslim is a terrorist. If you mock a devout Christian by tell him the pope is a pedophile and that there is no god, he will end up saying things that may be threatening. Same for every other religion. You mock their beliefs, using the first amendment as an excuse, they believe dedicate themselves and put their faith above the law. Hell, in many parts of the middle east, their faith is pretty much the law.One difference champ. When South park mocked the virgin Mary you didn't hear about Christians threatening murder. There is an entire culture of bashing their religion and yet, they have to sit there and take it. Then suddenly, if you mock Islam then YOU'VE GONE TOO FAR!
Danish Cartoons of Mohammad; Rioting in the streets in every muslim nations demanding death for "all who insult Islam".
Crucifix of Jesus Christ submerged in a jar of urine or smeared in elephant dung. We get nothing.
We don't use the first amendment as an excuse. You should read up on this novel concept of "rights". The first amendment says that I have the right to voice my opinion and voice it I shall.
lemiel wrote...
While I can understand their reasons I can't support their actions. We can't allow terrorists to dictate our actions. At the point where our actions are dictated by the fear of repercussion from militant radicals, then all pretense of our freedoms are thrown out of the window. We cannot allow these monsters to destroy our most sacred of rights, the right to speak freely.Hear, Hear! We should not bow to those who use threats and violence to bring about change. Let those with complaints protest in a civil manner.
Kaimax wrote...
People need to think if their actions is ethically correct or not, and try to see the problem from many perspectives.if modern people like us, still can't do that, I'm afraid that World war 3 will break out sooner or later....
Point is, People should look far beyond the rules that are protecting them.
Ethics are subjective Kaimax. You're ethics differ from mine. So whose ethics are correct, yours or mine?
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HentaiElder wrote...
MoneyDRuffy wrote...
You mock their beliefs, using the first amendment as an excuse...This is so true, in more cases than few. People say whatever they want (even if they know that their words are offensive and may provoke a harsh response) and then they hide behind the first amendment, saying they deserve to say it and shouldn't be punished. It's like calling a black a "nigger", a jew a "kike", a white a "honkey", or a hispanic a "spic" and then screaming "FREEDOM OF SPEECHS! FIRST AMENDMUNT. YOU CAN'T HIT ME OR GET MAD."
I sincerely doubt Parker and Stone are going "you can't hit me or get mad". They made their whole friggin' career on barbecuing as many sacred cows as possible. They piss people off, and they know this. It's what they're aiming for, what they've always aimed for.
They want people to get mad, because it means people are watching their show. They want people to try to hit them, because that's the perfect excuse to launch a money-grabbing lawsuit.
I think it is ridiculous that Viacom caved to pressure like that, but it doesn't surprise me much. We've somehow gotten to the point where offending someone is seen as something to be avoided "at all costs," rather than "if possible," and those who dare to speak an unashamedly biased opinion - or, heaven forbid, a scathing bit of satire - they're treated as if they were the enemy of all civilization.
Whatever happened to changing the channel, or angry letters and phone calls?
If you ask me, the ones making death threats because they're offended by someone else's sociopolitical satire cartoon are the ones who have gone too far. Death threats are a criminal offense, after all, even in print; the First Amendment doesn't cover criminal acts. Arrest them, and leave the assholes to be themselves.
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Fiery_penguin_of_doom wrote...
One difference champ. When South park mocked the virgin Mary you didn't hear about Christians threatening murder. There is an entire culture of bashing their religion and yet, they have to sit there and take it. Then suddenly, if you mock Islam then YOU'VE GONE TOO FAR! Danish Cartoons of Mohammad; Rioting in the streets in every muslim nations demanding death for "all who insult Islam".
Crucifix of Jesus Christ submerged in a jar of urine or smeared in elephant dung. We get nothing.
Honestly, I don't follow everything South Park shows (the only time I watched it involved Paris Hilton taking a pineapple up her ass), or the controversies it brings up. I do agree that any action they take against the show's creators to harm them is wrong, but thats how those Muslims are raised. Brainwashed, or whatever you want to call it, many grew up learning religion first, everything else second. Was anything related to Catholics/Christians or Jews covered? If not then it shows one of two things, either they just couldn't be fucked with at anymore and just gave up, or the western world has grown to accept the bashing, the middle east, clearly has not.
So DRuffy when the Muslims burn some Bibles; I should nuke that country????? Just to put long term fear in them?????????
Sorry for getting your religion wrong, I'm just not good with differentiating those for some reason. Go burn their Korans then, or flags. The episode used (not saying they did it to piss them off on purpose) Muhammad instead, they just tend to take their reactions to a level far beyond words.
But even if you did nuke them, they are a group that never forgets grudges, and shit will keep flying back and forth. But if you feel the need to nuke them then yea, go for it.
We don't use the first amendment as an excuse. You should read up on this novel concept of "rights". The first amendment says that I have the right to voice my opinion and voice it I shall.
I know that, I can't word what I want to say to clarify this so I'll just leave it be.
Look, he's not implying that every muslim is a terroist, it's common sense, just like how not every preacher screws little boys or that every father rapes their daughter and the crap like.
I clearly read it wrong.
When did I mock their beliefs?
Not you in particular, in this case it would be the makers of South Park.
And this is right and OK how?
I never said it is right, it just how they run the country.
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MoneyDRuffy wrote...
Was anything related to Catholics/Christians or Jews covered?A simpler question would be "when have they not been insulting to Christians/Catholics and Jews?" :D
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Fair enough, but what I should have typed out is whether it had gotten any public attention on international levels.
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International, I dunno. Possibly in Canada, or on the BBC. Nobody else seems to give a flip about American TV. (Which is fine by me, of course, since I don't watch TV much.)
In-country, however... Well, Christian fundamentalist leaders make impassioned speeches, encourage their congregations to boycott the show and sometimes the network, and there's the occasional small protest march. That's about it. TV isn't taken seriously, except where the real, dangerous nutjobs are concerned.
South Park is a low-brow satire cartoon, and it didn't take long for everyone to realize that's all it is. At that point, the fervor died down. Parker and Stone have been trying to revive the knee-jerking ever since.
edit: I didn't hear much from Jewish religious and community leaders. I assume they're just so used to being the butt of offensive humor that they just had a good laugh with everyone else and let it slide right off their backs.
In-country, however... Well, Christian fundamentalist leaders make impassioned speeches, encourage their congregations to boycott the show and sometimes the network, and there's the occasional small protest march. That's about it. TV isn't taken seriously, except where the real, dangerous nutjobs are concerned.
South Park is a low-brow satire cartoon, and it didn't take long for everyone to realize that's all it is. At that point, the fervor died down. Parker and Stone have been trying to revive the knee-jerking ever since.
edit: I didn't hear much from Jewish religious and community leaders. I assume they're just so used to being the butt of offensive humor that they just had a good laugh with everyone else and let it slide right off their backs.
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Sorry for getting your religion wrong, I'm just not good with differentiating those for some reason. Go burn their Korans then, or flags. The episode used (not saying they did it to piss them off on purpose) Muhammad instead, they just tend to take their reactions to a level far beyond words.
Muhammad is just a prophet not the God, Allah. I have read and seen more controversies about Jesus Christ. The Muslims beleive Jesus Christ was just a prophet.
How come the Muslims did not go after the man who wrote the Da Vinci Code?
Insulting JC is just as blasphemous but are the Muslims their usual discriminating selves?
Jesus Versus Muhammed
The Koran teaches that Jesus Christ performed Miracles (Koran 3:49, 5: ... The Koran teaches that Jesus was righteous and without sin {Koran 3:45) ...
www.babylonforsaken.com/jesusvsmuhammed
Muhammad is just a prophet not the God, Allah. I have read and seen more controversies about Jesus Christ. The Muslims beleive Jesus Christ was just a prophet.
How come the Muslims did not go after the man who wrote the Da Vinci Code?
Insulting JC is just as blasphemous but are the Muslims their usual discriminating selves?
Jesus Versus Muhammed
The Koran teaches that Jesus Christ performed Miracles (Koran 3:49, 5: ... The Koran teaches that Jesus was righteous and without sin {Koran 3:45) ...
www.babylonforsaken.com/jesusvsmuhammed