On Vegetarianism

BigLundi · 2012-05-29T15:46:05+00:00

So...I usually refuse to...talk about this subject because it's almost inevitable that I'll come off as arrogant and pretentious regardless of how I word it, as it's the stigma with those of my position. I'm a vegetarian. I think I should make that clear before I continue. And while I consider myself a 'moral vegetarian'(as in I don't eat meat for moral reasons, not for my health) I wouldn't consider myself necessarily 'morally superior' to those who do eat meat. I dislike other vegans who make videos and brag about how great they are for not eating meat, they piss me off and make vegetarianism so unappealing to so many people. If I may, however...I'd like to attempt to convince my fellow Fakkuers to perhaps...cut down on their meat intake. Take it or leave it, so long as you read this and consider it I'm satisfied. First, one of the reasons I'm sometimes given for not becoming a vegan is...meat tastes good. While I can understand that some meat products can be good, and indeed some vegans can't keep their dietary habits because of this fact, I'd like to counter that vegetarian products can also taste good. ave you ever had a strawberry banana smoothie? Delicious. Soy milk? While the concept seems like it would taste bad, I recommend just giving it a shot. It's actually, in my opinion, stronger than cow milk, certainly more nutritious, and it tastes...pretty damned good. When most people think of Soy product and consider it to taste bad, I don't think it's the 'soy' that tastes bad, I think it's the 'whey' that tastes bad. And I agree. Whey tends to add a texture to food and drink so that it almost feels like you're eating or drinking sandpaper. I recommend checking out the products and seeing how much whey is in it before judging all soy products as to taste the same way. A good start is Silk Soy Milk, I personally love chocolate almond Silk milk. Salads can also be good, especially when you choose your dressing to suit your tastes. I recommend experimenting with all the different kinds of dressing(except bleu cheese and ranch, they use dairy products). I'm personally a fan of Italian. There are a lot of things a vegan can eat that taste pretty decent, it just takes a bit of effort to look for it(and some research to be sure it's not animal product). Another reason sometimes given for eating meat is, "I give these animals the right to eat me if I'm ever in a situation where that may happen, so I don't see that I'm doing anything wrong." To be honest...you kind of don't. I mean, I don't see anyone in a forest being approached by a bear and going, "Oh well I guess it's my turn." laying down and waiting to be feasted on. It just doesn't seem like a realistic picture to e. Plus there's the fact tat the animals regularly eaten...aren't...likely to ever eat you. Cows don't eat people, pigs don't eat people, sheep don't eat people these aren't things that you're going to be ever threatened by, yet you consume them regularly. That argument to me, holds no weight. Another argument I tend to hear is sort of 'out of sight out of mind' so long as people aren't AWARE of all the bad things that happen to meat product, they can't see themselves doing wrong. To me this isn't a valid excuse either, and the reason is that we don't avoid knowledge for the sake of feeling better about ourselves, and when we do, I see that not as something everyone's free to do without repercussion. It's unethical to plug your ears and close your eyes and say, "La la la I can't hear you." when someone brings up facts counter to what you would LIKE the world to be like. The farming techniques of animals are god awful, with pigs being stood on and clipped apart, still conscious as they're boiled alive, put into small fences where they're pumped full of drugs, and that's just pigs. Cows have their babies taken from them and chopped apart to make veal, they're also put into confined spaces where their milk is sucked out of them daily. And to me it's not a far stretch to see the horrors of that by replacing the cows with human females. At the very least if you're still unconvinced that these are valid reasons to stop eating meat, encourage free range alternatives where animals are allowed to live productive and social lives before they're manufactured. This brings me to my last point I'll be addressing as to why people don't stop eating meat. This has to do with the people who aren't convinced that animals 'feel pain', or that they're not sufficiently intelligent enough for us to consider them, morally. A user on youtube who addressed this named "antybu86" said that we have to first contemplate what we put value on before we say that animals are worth consideration. He said that we're special as humans and we place value on our abilities to perform calculus, think philosophical thoughts, and write poetry. Well, you know what else I personally value? Not having my limbs chopped off while I'm still alive. I also value not having my genitals taken from me or rendered unusable via knives and surgery without anesthetics. And you know what I value more than being able to think philosophical thoughts? And I say this as a student of philosophy who is aspiring for a PhD in the subject: Not being confined into small spaces pumped full of bulk enhancing drugs and being killed at a FRACTION of my natural life span. Jeremy Bentham, 2 centuries ago said the following: "The question is not can they reason, nor can they talk, but can they suffer?" It's been said to me that animals who aren't self aware don't feel pain. But how do we tell that animals are self aware? There's the 'mirror test' that not all animals pass, but that's insufficient. Just because an animal can't recognize themselves in a mirror doesn't mean that they don't feel pain, and it certainly doesn't mean they can't feel other social emotions. Cows and pigs and chickens especially form social groups and hierarchies. They have complex emotions, and even engage in teleological behavior. For more on this see "The Pig Who Sang To the Moon" By Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson. Even if they couldn't do any of this, even if they couldn't have complex emotions or form social groups or whatever, it doesn't change the fact that when chickens have their beaks cut off, when cows have their ears cut off, when pigs have their limbs chopped off without any anesthetics or consideration for how they feel? They...suffer. Immensely. Just as much as you or I would in that situation. For further reading on everything I've touched on here, see Peter Singer's book "Animal Liberation" the updated copy. Thank you for listening.

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say what!

12 years ago

lordisgaea3 wrote...

Freaky Green wrote...

.... Dude you must be joking or you haven't thought that statement for more than 10 mins. Okay it would seems that I have to explain here since you not quite getting it, but not too sure if its gonna help get my point to you.

First of all, believing in the existence of souls doesn't mean it believe it due to some religious faith. When I say soul what I really meant was the core of energy of all living and nonliving things. Yes I do believe nonliving beings too have souls, since all things are made of some form of energy, and there are evidence that suggest that energy is flow through a network. Usually, a network would a center, core, or origin and I am saying a soul is that that center. And it is possible for anything to harm a soul if it were able to disrupt the flow of energy going to the soul, which can be done by killing and/or by destroying. So anyone claims that plants, fungi, bacteria, other fellow animals, or nonliving things don't have a soul are using inaccurate information.

I never said you believed in the religious soul , i did indeed know you were not but it is still a faith .

Freaky Green wrote...

Second, my statement about the truth has a lot to do with existence of souls. I assumed that you initially didn't believe in souls since you can't see them, then thought the existence of souls is illogical, then eventually thought the whole idea of souls isn't true, which lead me to bring up the quote of what's really a lie and whats really the truth.

first i must say i was tired yesterday when i answered to this statement and didn't understand it right but this doesn't mater here is why :

Your statement is describing faith .

Every faith is at a equal level of silliness since faiths are beliefs based on no evidence and it is totaly illogical to believe in something without any evidence.

Let me give you an exemple : the question is : legalisation of drugs , for or against it ?

(this is my faith , i believe in the Agalasa monster)
My answer : I think that drugs should be legal because if you don't do it the next 72 days the Agalasa monster will EAT YOUR SOUL !

You do understand that what i just wrote is a complete nonsens and will never lead to a serious dicussion ? Well when i read what i call your "wacky things" , your faiths , it's the same thing that if you were speaking abouth the Agalasa monster since all faiths are based on the same thing , no evidence . The only moment where faiths will lead to a serious discussion is when the discussion is on the specific faith ...

I want to add that i don't want to break your freedom of expression all i wanted is trying to explain this to you . If you still dont understand then i will just shut myself from now on and never quote you back because of your faiths .

Freaky Green wrote...

Lastly, the part where you say, "There is ABSOLUTLY NOTHING that can lead to think that souls exist , this is why i and a lot of humans don't believe in souls", well after reading this post maybe you and others may think otherwise and look at souls in a different way.

No , since you still didn't give any arguments why i should even consider that souls exist ...

Can you please stay on topic?

Sprite

12 years ago

One thing about being a vegetarian is that it's much harder to maintain a balanced diet. Humans are omnivores and our stomachs are developed that way. Protein is something relatively harder to obtain just by eating vegetables as it is mostly exclusive to legumes. I have a friend who gave up on eating meat after reading some absurd propaganda thingy, but after a year on that vegetarian diet he became very unhealthy with very low resistance to cold and lower amounts of energy. I'm not going to go on that other absurd raw vegetable diet he started going on later but for people converting to vegetarianism without proper adjustments, it's much harder to maintain a healthy lifestyle. Especially American cuisine which focuses on the meat with most vegetables being either raw salads or boiled stuff.

Also for a more practical view on Lundi's plea to cut down on meat, the ratio between meat and vegetable consumption will decrease to a healthier level that most Americans are suppose to eat. Also the consumption of vegetables will help you avoid stuff like constipation and hemorrhoids...

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