Political shifts in Europe

Those of you who live in Europe, or with an interest in European politics, probably know that there have quite a few countries have seen a shift to either far left or far right political parties in the 2014 European elections.

Here in Britain, UKIP (UK independence party) topped the polls with over a quarter of the votes. UKIP wants to leave the EU, cut down most immigration, and withdraw from the European Court of Human Rights (mainly to avoid giving Prisoners the vote).

In France, the National Front won with 25%. They are heavily anti-immigration, euroskeptic, and want more regulated trade.

In Greece the far-left group, the Syriza coalition, won the vote. They consist of a variety of political groups, ranging from Democratic Socialists to Eurocommunists.

So what do you think of this? Are these far-right groups a good option for these countries? Many have accused them of being racist, but does their victory show that the people are also racist? Why did Greece vote left-wing? Do they just want to keep the EU as a safety net after having to be bailed out recently? Are all these votes simply a reflection of the dissatisfaction with mainstream parties, rather than a change in political view?

Answer these questions, or bring up your own points. I'm interested in what people have to say about this.

Well I Live in Belgium and here the Eurosceptic party lost so hard it's almost that it has no relevance anymore. I think this is mainly due to the internal frictions between the two parts of this country.

But other then that, I think the britains have always made clear that they wanted to keep distance from the EU im not shocked that with the crisis UKIP gets really popular. In France I think the socialists fucked up really bad and this played right in the card of the FN.
Personaly I think it would be bad to weaken the EU but it sure needs some serious reconsidering, because some thinks just don't work.

It is naive and over simplistic (and most of the time wrong) to call people who are anti-immigration racist. There are real reasons and good arguments for anti-immigration. Im from Finland, but i currently live in Canada so i have no idea how they voted down there, havent asked anybody, but i would think that we are not 'hard on' anti-immigration and that we DO wanna remain part of the EU.

So who won? Was it one of the center parties, or one of the right-wing groups? And what are these internal frictions?



To be honest the voter turnout is pretty shocking here as well. 34% in the UK compared to 90% in Belgium. I suspect many people who would have supported the 'normal' parties just didn't bother showing up, having lost faith in them from the crisis. All the people I know are pretty clear they don't like UKIP.



That is very true. But many people have accused UKIP of being racist. This is partly because of their hardline anti-immigration stance, and partly because a few UKIP members have said racist things, or just generally offensive things. Like that one that claimed the floods were caused by the legalization of gay marriage.



According to a quick internet search, in Finland both the far-left and far-right gained votes, but the winners were the Liberals (center-left), followed by the EPP (center-right).

We have a pretty complicated system with a different set of parties in the North and the South. In the North (Flanders) the flemisch nationalists won but they don't place them selves with euroskeptics like UKIP. In the South (Walonia) nothing much has changed the standard parties kept everything socialists, liberals and chirstian democrats. The frictions im talking about are the reason for the popularity of the Flemisch Nationalists. There is a strong movement for more Flemisch autonomy.



But in Belgium you are required to vote if this wasn't the case we would probably be close to 34%

My Dad immigrated here (England) from France, so I'm a bit biased against any type of party that's like UKIP. That being said, I think it would be generlising the voting populance to suggest they agree with UKIP because the country shares their (potenially) racist views. I think it's mainly due to the previous governments failures as to why this has happened to most countries (bar a few like Greece) because of how some of the EU trading laws restrict some countries from doing business their way (I think that's a reason why England want to leave the EU?).

I also believe that a reason why parties like UKIP have become more popular over recent times is despite how immigrants bring in more jobs and help the economy they sometimes send that money back to their own country, effectively reducing the income that country could be making if their own workers had those jobs. As a result parties like UKIP would become more popular since less immigrants would be coming in to send their money back to their own country. I think an example is that Polish workers were estimated to have brought in £1.6 billion to the British economy, but sent £1.1 billion back to their families in Poland back in 2012 or 2013. I can't remember where I saw that statistic so I don't know how accurate/valid it is.

As for whether their good or not...time will tell. In theory it could work very well but it could also strain relationships with foreign countries if we aren't in the same Union anymore. Or it could strengthen those relationships given how we could follow our own guidlines.

What was Greece's previous previous party and their stance on economic issues?

And did anything change in Germany?

Also, what are the alternatives suggested for the Euro? Along with other promises made by the winning parties, if anyone knows?

I know very little about EU's politics, so reading these conversations are interesting.

Can I assume the UKIP party is similar to the US's GOP in wanting to weaken ties with other country's (outside Israel), favoring businesses, and with a strong religious image?

Interesting, so are these Flemisch Nationalists anti-immigration? So like, they want to keep ties with the EU for trade purposes or something, but don't want a lot of immigrants because they're taking lots of jobs (or something along those lines)?



Well that would certainly explain the difference. The other countries with high turnouts were Luxemburg (90%, compulsory voting, little change with centre-right still dominating) and Malta (74%, I think optional voting, again little change with the 2 centre parties on pretty much level pegging).

The lowest turnout was in Slovakia, where only 13% voted. The centre-right is still the most popular, but the centre-left, while still second, has lost a seat to the far right.



Well, from what I've seen of people on TV, and with how the media portrays foreign people in some instances, I can certainly believe that there is more racism than there is previously. I just don't think it's enough to give UKIP the amount of support that they earned.

Also, as a French person, I'm interested in how you view the rise of the Front National in your home country?



Well most of the time it's not entirely the governments fault, but they just get blamed for it because they were in power at the time. The massive crisis Britain had was caused by the banks. Most of the disdain towards the government comes from the fact that it's taken so long to recover from it, and again it's up for debate about whether that is the fault of their policies and action.

And asking why England wants to leave the EU is difficult because there are so many different reasons people have. It's one of UKIPs reasons for it, along with the anti-immigration stuff and not wanting to give prisoners the vote.



It's certainly a plausible statistic, because when we had an influx of Polish migrant workers, the Polish economy was pretty much down the crapper, so people were coming here for work because they couldn't get jobs in there country. For the most part, those people really had to support their families, and not being able to afford to bring everyone over into England, they just had to send the money back so their family could survive.

But now, the focus is more on Romanian immigrants, who I believe have a similar economy problem (although I haven't checked up on that). Except the public/media response is worse this time: rather than being "These Poles are stealing British jobs!", it's now "Romanian immigrants are pick-pockets". Which is at least a huge generalization, and at worst outstandingly racist.



In 09 Greece's 2 main parties were on level pegging. The Panhellenic Socialist Movement (centre-left) want a world where wealth and power is shared more equally. The New Democracy (centre-right) wants Greece to have a more independent economy, initially opposing the austerity packages the EU gave them, but having to accept it because of the terrible state of their country.



Not much. A slight loss for the left, but marginal gains for the far-left, centre-left, centre-right and greens. The right and far-rights still have next to no support whatsoever.



I'm not sure what you mean by alternatives. UKIP thinks that Britain can rule itself basically. They want the British government to have control over the country, support the monarchy and oppose the disestablishment of the Church of England.

I'm not sure about what promises have been made, but here are some of their policies:cut corporation tax; abolish inheritance tax and national insurance; give more decisions on spending on health public; free dental and eye checks; repeal the human rights act; opposing sam-sex marriage (but not civil partnerships); oppose the idea of man-made climate change; oppose foreign military intervention and aid.



They do favor business'. Their religious image is quite strongly christian, although they do claim to support other religions as well. As for ties with other countries, they want to cut most political ties with Europe, but I'm not sure about other countries, and they want to keep free trade with everyone.

I don't think there's more racism. There has always been high degrees of racism in England, I believe people have just began to ignore it while it's shown in news reports because of how they may tolerate the parties like UKIP and their ideals more than they used to. Not that I'm completely disagreeing with what you've said, it's incredibly possible that racism has been on the rise.



I'm not such an expert on French politics. All I know is from what my cousins have tolf me, and they're more central-right based party supporters if I had to label them. Although from what they've told me there is a similar type of 'racist' flag being pinned on them but not as much as UKIP are getting. Also, not my home country, I was born and raised in England (Just thought I needed to point that out).

But I'm not a fan of any 'Anti-Immigration' stances, at least, not the heavy anti-immigration parties. I'm too afraid it will send us back to more racist times and sever ties with other countries.



I believe it is their fault. They have a large degree of control and always have their own people keeping up to date with how the banks are doing. So in theory they should have seen such a disaster coming and at least softened the blow of the crisis. Although, yes, it would be naive to say that the only reason parties like UKIP want to leave is because of the failures of the previous governments, I'm just saying the trade restrictions are one of the major reasons.

They want better immigration laws inside the country mostly regarding citizenship and more attention to illegal immigration. But they still want to keep the current immigration agreements with the EU. They actualy want more immigrants that take jobs here and less immigrants that don't have jobs but live on government support.

The whole, "UKIP won," shit is starting to get to me. It's pushed by the media but they fail to recognise that not a single council was turned over to UKIP in Britain. They failed to get a single councilor in Liverpool and Manchester and the seats in councils that they did win are spread so far apart, it's laughable to say that they have any power whatsoever. Britain is hardly the Eurosceptic country it's made out to be.

All UKIP does in Britain is divide the right wing vote. The idea that UKIP has any sway over left wing voters is amusing to me considering Labour gained over 300 council seats in the recent elections. It's also very good to see that UKIP support has actually decreased, with the general "definitely will support rate" having gone down in the past few years from 22% to 17%

In terms of European elections, well... to say that MEPs have any power at all is somewhat unconvincing considering that out of all of the EU's governing bodies only one is formed of individuals who are actually elected to their position (It's honestly a worse picture than when you think about all the unelected rich fuckers in the houses of lords). So, ok I'll hand it to you that they won over a quarter of the British seats in European Parliament (27.5% to be exact and 24 seats), however, what will they do with this newfound power in europe? The answer is nothing, UKIP has always had several MEPs and most of them boycott, or do not even turn up to bloody vote.

So that's your so called UKIP earthquake for you. UKIP are a bigger joke than the Liberals. At least the Liberals have control of councils.

Yeah, with UKIP becoming more famous, it gives people who didn't want to voice their opinions on immigration for fear of being accused of racism a way to express it in a safer way. And it gives a less extreme option for slightly racist people than the BNP.



Damn, I knew you were raised in England, typed that without thinking.

Anyway, I feel the National Front is slightly more racist than UKIP, given that their leader said giving Immigrants the vote was a "crazy measure". Although maybe in French that's less of a strong word than it is in England. Personally I'm not a fan of anti-immigration either, because you meet more interesting people in multicultural societies.



Even then, the people who were in charge when the banks collapsed would be to blame (think it was labour), but both main parties are pretty hated because of it. It's difficult for a government who comes in at a bad time to retain support, because they usually get blamed for not sorting everything out immediately.



That sounds like a pretty reasonable view. From that they sound much better than UKIP. So from the sounds of it Belgium is very much for immigration, is there a reason for that? Something to do with the wanting immigrants to take jobs that you mentioned?



But the fact that they did so well in the European election implies that Britain is, at least, more eurosceptic than it was in 09. However, it is important to take into account that lots of people don't bother voting in England. So then it could just be that UKIP were the most successful in mobilizing voters, which is certainly a plausible explanation giving the opinions of the other major political parties at the minute. And while it is true that UKIP hold little to no power in British politics, they do now hold the majority of Britains seats in the EU.



I was unaware support had gone down for UKIP, that certainly is good news. And again I think that whilst UKIP is unlikely to turn left wing voters, at the minute they are more inspiring to the right wing voters than the left wing parties (based on the European elections).



Yeah, I doubt Britain having more UKIP would make a significant difference. And even if you look at the overall results, it's only +11 seats for both the far right and far left. But what gets me is the +80 for the 'other' group. It's difficult to get an idea of how this affects the distribution of seats on the left-right spectrum. They don't have much power, but it's still unusual given that it's an increase of over 250% from the 09. Perhaps this shows that the people really are getting tired of the mainstream political parties.

And while I'm we're on the subject of what UKIP will do in parliament, in there manifesto (or something) they said they went not to help the EU, but to 'find out what it's up to'. Which is incredibly stupid.



I think that, however much they try, they're probably always going to be a one policy party. Anti-immigration is really their only policy that people take seriously. I mean, they don't believe global warming is caused by humans. That is hardly something that's going to win them any votes, unless they're deliberately appealing to morons.

Lol, it's okay, easy mistake to make since you don't really know me too well. At least my Danni is talking about me a little ^_^

As for the National Front, I'm not totally sure on what they said exactly in French so I can't tell you whether or not it means less. I would need the exact quote to tell, but racism is a little worse in some areas of France than England. Although that generally only applies to black people, I was thinking the higher level of intolerance could be a reason why some people consider them less racist since their ideas of what's racist may be different to ours. Don't know for sure though so don't quote me on that.



Wasn't considering the change in parties when I wrote that. Apologies. I can't remember which way round it was but I think the housing crisis happened in 2006 and the banking crisis happened in 2008, so obviously the party in charge (It was labour BTW) had to not only deal with a problem as soon as they took charge but then had to face another. So as you said, it would be difficult for them to retain support after having that occur to them so shortly after coming into power.

Immigration is a big topic here though, for some reason the most radical party in this topic lost almost all its votes to the nationalist party. Honestly I don't know why this happend. Over all I think Western-Europeans have no problem with immigration, just with all the problems that come with it. But if it is to do the jobs people don't want to do anymore then I think that most are pro immigration. I don't really think there is a problem with people losing their jobs because immigrants take them away.