[Locked] Respect for others (beliefs, lifestyle etc)

counter point.

People can be delusional if they want, but if they start doing things like trying to get their delusions teached at school or present their delusions as facts when making an argument I'll bash them as hard as I can.

Perhaps this will help to better see many atheists point of view:

Beyond the universe there is nothing and within the universe the supernatural does not and cannot exist. Of all deceivers who have plagued mankind, none are so deeply ruinous to human happiness as those impostors who pretend to lead by a light above nature. Science has never killed or persecuted a single person for doubting or denying its teachings, and most of these teachings have been true; but religion has murdered millions for doubting or denying her dogmas, and most of these dogmas have been false.

Charles L. Wallis

This whole topic is nonsense.



So you can't end conversations where you fundamentally disagree about the foundational aspects of reality with someone without it turning into an argument? Oh perish the thought. /sarcasm



Do you have any reason to think they were atheists? How old were they? How do you know the motivation was, "Christians! Must hurt!" I say this because we've had similar things happen in the United States, where people would just walk into churches and open fire. But they weren't atheists, they were politically motivated into thinking that the people in their community weren't being good christians, were being hypocrites, were supporting humanism, and that they had to die for it.

You don't find people committing acts of violence 'in the name of atheism' because that's utter nonsense. You can't get from being an atheist to committing acts of violence in the name of it without adding more to your ideology that's likely fundamentally flawed.



You had knives in you before? So you're saying you were stabbed by atheists? IS that what you're saying? Because up till now I'm having a really hard time believing you. You say that you MIGHT face persecution, then you say you've had knives in you before. Which is it? You can't have both.

I have to say this whole topic irritates me. As an atheist I hear this kind of nonsense all the time, "You can't go around telling people they're wrong! That's rude!"

Guess what? Tough.

Every atheist I know personally respects people's right to believe what they want. What we DON'T respect are the beliefs themselves. I don't respect the beliefs of a christian. And why in the world should I? This might come as a BIT of a shocker to you, but from OUR perspective, you have an imaginary friend, and people like you are trying to use him to gain political advantage. And that...is nonsense.

In the UK, the Archbishop of Canterbury is listened to as if his opinion on politics is supposed to matter simply because he's a well respected high ranking christian. Priests are a fundamental part of Parliament. The Queen is the head of the official church of England. You guys have it pretty nice over there, and have a lot of political sway despite your beliefs being completely undemonstrated and, from what anyone can tell...is nonsense.

Your idea of being oppressed is a bus campaign saying, "There probably is no god, so stop worrying and enjoy your life"?
"OH NO! The atheists have a voice in society now and they disagree with me! Help I'm being oppressed!"

And the other campaign, the idea that christians are being marginalized in the workplace? The link you provided doesn't even provide any sort of link to any sort of study showing that this is the case. In fact, such a thing sounds bias from the very beginning and I'd be suspect of the methodology used to determine what that even means, and how one determines it's marginalization of christians and not...say...bad workers who just so happen to be christians being marginalized. How do you distinguish between the two? So right now, it seems like that ad campaign SHOULD have been denied, because it sounds like nothing but propaganda.

You wanna talk about oppression? I'm an atheist in America. Have you any clue what that entails?

In America, we're the least trusted minority in the country. In America, we're compared to being just about as bad as rapists. In America, celebrities will go on television and go, "These people seem stupid to me." In America, parents will disown us, and communities will marginalize us over nothing more than us disagreeing with their idea about reality(christianity). You want to talk about oppression? I don't wanna hear it from you. Christians don't know anything about oppression.



And WE'RE oppressing YOU by saying we think you're wrong?

Fuck. That. Nonsense.

Why is it anyone's business what another believes? You know what the solution to this is? mind your own business. The morale needs to be carried by everyone though, so a seemingly impossible task.

I have friends who are die-hard Christians who lecture me whenever religion is mentioned. "You need structure. You need guidance. Look at your life. Wouldn't it be better with the Lord in your life?"

To me, religion is a waste of time. I don't see how it would help me. And I honestly do not need others to try to tell me where it would help me. I'm stubborn and I am not going to listen.


But aside form that, my main point is I don't go around telling a Muslim or a Hebrew (or a Christian) that the way they live their life is stupid and pointless and that Yahweh or Allah do not exist. For one it is not as if they will suddenly going to have an epiphany; They're not going to turn to you and say "You know what? You're were right all along!" Another is that it starts unnecessary disputes and altercations about thing involving other people business.

"Don't ask, don't tell."

Good for you but its extremely closed-minded to lump all Atheists together, you not showing respect which is what you upset about. I myself am in Atheists an I have values and beliefs, why? Cause being an Christian or of any other belief has nonething to do with values. I am an Atheists because I find it to be lazy to take values and beliefs from somewhere else instead of deciding for yourself whats right, or whats wrong.

Yeah well a group of atheists stabbed me and my cousin into hospital on my way outta church on a Sunday and while I lived my cousin is now officially a 'vegetable'. They rubbed the sentence 'Down with Christianity, Atheism Rules!' into my face.

But yeah, I'm generalizing. Thank you guys for helping me realize I'm an asshole; humility is one lesson that I sorely need. I can't hate on them for believing in what they believe now can I.

I really need to shup up about things I don't understand, but I can't help it. My cousin is 12 and she's doomed to spend the rest of her life motionless.

I honestly have no fucking clue whether or not you're bullshitting me.

But, giving you the benefit of the doubt...for whatever reason, you're telling me that a group of atheists came up to you, stabbed you, and said, "Down with Christianity! Atheism rules!"?

That's not about atheism, that's about insanity. These people are sociopaths who have added some sort of superiority complex, as WELL as a supreme lack of empathy, or even rationalization that empathy isn't required, in with their atheism.

So let me ask you: When the Westboro Baptist Church goes around saying that God hates the troops and fags and wants to destroy humanity, and that all the death we suffer is god's divine judgement that we all deserve, do you call that Christianity? OR do you say, "No, those people are sociopolitical retards that are severely disconnected with reality."

Now, I'll put aside for now that everything they say they can back up with biblical support and just accept that they're just sociopaths, because the point of this, is that it's QUITE clear that they don't represent the mainstream christian, so it would be unfair for me to conflate all christians with them. Right?

Well let me ask you...does the mainstream atheism honestly look like it advocates randomly stabbing christians? Do you think Richard Dawkins advocates that kind of nonsense? Do you think Sam Harris, who has written entire books on the concepts of morality and ethics and how best to determine them, advocates stabbing people randomly? Dan Dennett? Who is about the nicest philosopher in the world? Do you think he advocates that?

No. In fact you'd be hard pressed to find atheists who DO advocate that. Does that mean those kinds of people don't exist? No, but it DOES show you, from an objective outsider looking in standpoint...you're CLEARLY not coming from a rational position when you get pissed at atheists for grouping christians together...and then do the same thing.

Edit: As an addendum, if you want to marginalize the violent people that go too far with whatever their belief system is, it doesn't bode well to mock a vague belief system that doesn't at all necessitate the things you don't like and find immoral. Instead, how about joining a MEANINGFUL discussion: what is moral? Why is it moral? What's the best way to spread these morals? These are questions worth asking and answering and talking about.

Well, I guess it certainly isn't wrong to stand for your beliefs, and seeing what Christians did to other minorities in history, perhaps it is our turn in history now. I don't find Atheism immoral; but there are certain people who tempt me to think so, and while I try my best to resist them, there are times when I fall for it. Some of the greatest people I know are without religion/ atheists and when I see them I know I'm wrong about a bunch of loonies representing a whole group of people.

I admit, I don't always like Christian morals, and sometimes I find the Lord's ways terrifying. How he wiped out the other tribes in Canaan etc etc. It sometimes can get really frustrating when I want to have fun with my friends as I don't do 'the bad stuff' and in times like these I really want to join in the fun, but then religion holds me back. Feels like having a noose around your neck all the time you know? I don't wanna be any different from my friends but then my beliefs kick in and I distance myself from them, and in my friends view they think I'm being an asshole of a friend, while I think I'm doing the right thing. Half of me wants to join in and be as fun-loving as them, but my other half tells me to restrain myself and not indulge in 'common pleasures'. Feels like I'm torn in two sometimes.

The people that have attacked you and your cousin were not just insane, but have also represented the atheists all around the world.

Not only did they use their motives as " Atheists rules all", but also by doing that also put atheists in a bad position by saying they have no control over their beliefs as to not containing themselves by seeing other believers who believe in another religion.

I really believe each and every religion ( including my own) should mind their own business to themselves and we ourselves need to enforce that as well to live in peace with each other.

No.

No they didn't.

And only an idiot would think that the actions of any one person that identifies as something is in any way representative of the group.

There is no atheist dogma or belief that leads atheists to stab random christians. If an atheist DOES stab a christian and says, "I do this because I'm an atheist!" Then they are clearly not only out of their mind, but have no idea what atheism even is. Because that's not possible. You CAN'T do that 'because you're an atheist'. There's no way that that's the case.

please link the news story about the incident. otherwise, i call bullshit.

I strongly agree with you based on your view, however, there are not a lot of people who think as smart as we all do.

I also agree on the ideal of atheism is also a peaceful belief, but not all atheists are like that, just like muslims, christians and other religions, they tend to go overboard with their belief and somebody winds up getting hurt.

Perhaps the attackers weren't even informed of what atheism really is, maybe they only believe that atheism means believing in science and not in God, but they attacked someone based on a different religious belief and that was wrong.


I know there are people out there who despises religions and belief other than theirs, but that is a selfish trait and a dangerous one.

Also, they used the name "Atheist" as an attacker, which means they did represent atheism. ( Not saying all atheists are like that, but they used that name)

I'm sorry, but I don't have any ounce of evidence at all. I have tried looking for news about the incident, but nothing shows up. If you don't want to believe me, that's ok. It happened last summer around June, that's all I know.

Cases like yours are not rare these days. It happens most of time.

Maybe you do have evidence or not, but it is not the first.

Countless attacks are being reported all around the globe, all for the sake of their beliefs.

I hope your cousin makes it out alright.

I might be touching upon a volatile subject, but is it safe to ask that you've been through something similar?

It's very hard to believe impossible that christians being stabbed by atheists, on the way out of church no less, avoided any kind of media coverage. that is the kind of thing christian "news" groups would jump all over. and once they started screaming about it, the main stream media would pick it up.




citation please. link any story(from a reputable source) of atheists attacking theist.

Not physically but verbally when I wanted to get together with Christians and hang out with them learning more about Christianity and it's history, and that was when Muslims came over and threatened me because I was well known under my Muslim friends and they thought I wanted to switch sides. It just shows that Muslims in my city doesn't treat other different believers that well.

Even though this wasn't a good answer for your question, the cases about treating and mistreating people based on different religious views are still similar.

And their opinion doesn't matter. The logical view is that they didn't represent atheism.



No, you're not getting it. This has NOTHING to do with atheism being peaceful, because it's not. It's not violent either. Atheism, is, put simply, a lack of a certain belief.

There is no violence you coupld possibly ever contrive based solely off of that. You MUST add more to the ideology before you commit an act of violence in 'the name of atheism'. Whic his logically incoherent, and impossible.



And unlike those religions, atheism has no dogma to go overboard WITH. That's the issue.



I wanna be clear. I don't believe this story actually happened at all. I know people who have been stabbed and gone through traumatic experiences like this, and this guy doesn't seem like one of them. In any case, what you fail to see is that if they weren't informed of what atheism is, then clearly they didn't do it in the name of atheism. That's just a logical conclusion you must come to.




Ok. So if I attack someone, even though I'm an atheist, and say, "I'm a muslim!" then I'm representing Islam? Do you have any idea how insane that logic is?