The "creep" label

I recently read a article that i thought Fakku might appreciate, relating to society's expectations of male sexuality. I've become hesitant to participate ind discussions of misandry/misogny online, mainly because they almost always turn angry. However, this particular article i feel is phrased in a way that imo doesn't shame either gender. Here's the link

Why do we demonize men who are honest about their sexual needs

In case you don't feel like reading the entire thing, the basic idea is that men are expected to be the initiator in sexual matters, while at the same time running a risk of being labeled a creep for doing that very thing. In the same way women have to be extremely careful in regards to their sexuality to avoid the "slut" label, men have to be extremely careful about theirs to avoid getting the "creep" label.

I found myself agreeing with basically everything in the article, but i would be interest to know what my fellow fakkuzza think about this.

Personally, as a guy who feels rather bad at the whole "flirting" thing it would be nice to not have to be the initiator all the time.

There's a difference between being sexually open, or flirty and such without being creepy or slutty.

I do not agree with men being labeled creeps just simply for flirting, and women are not sluts for flirting or wanting to be sexually active with more than one partner.

It's one thing to be honest. it's another to oogle someone and/or take and post photographs of unknowing/unwilling persons online for others to jack off to.

It is fine to have desires, but expressing them at the cost of others' personal comfort, safety, and dignity is plain creepy and horrid.

I'd be surprised if anyone on this site was against the idea's of balancing the gender roles; especially when it comes to relations ships. Girls can be just as perverted as guys; and guys can be just as passive as some girls.

American society in particular condemns people who are open about sex in general, whether or not they are male or female.

In many places in the world sexuality is just seen as a normal thing about life, while violence is more often censored. Over here it's the opposite for god knows why. It's bad for children to know about sex but watching people kill each other is fine.

For instance in Germany prostitution is legal. In fact prostitutes can be part of unions and recieve benefits, not to mention mandatory health check-ups. It's safe for them and for their clients. Why doesn't the US do that to cut out the danger of STDs and target the abuse pimps lay out? The Bible I'm guessing.

But I'm getting off topic. Men can be creeps, women can be sluts. Whether they really are or not.

Actually I think the definition for being a slut is being sexually active with more than one partner.

It's an odd line you straddle in americain society. You want to be honest, because it's easier and that's what everyone tells you to do, but at the same time, sex is very taboo. It's plastered on every surface, product and ad online and on tv, but the culture we are in relies on us wanting it, but at the same time being isolated from it.

In other countries, young adults are very open about there sexuality because a) they realize it's an important issue and that it need be brought in to the open so thar someone with sexual experience can advise them with it b) other countries are far more mature than us and they adnoledge that sex is a part of teens lives, raterthan cover it up and pretend it doesn't exist

In the end it's All a matter of Americans benign immature and insecure about sex.

When i did a paper in college, a article i came across theorized that the issue with sexuality in America isn't how much of it is out there but how its presented. Here is the specific quote in case you're interested

This statement coming from a person who shares okaycupidgoldmine pics for a good ole laugh...(pretty much a public shaming site for weirdos or just generally people you find distasteful on okay cupid the dating site, most if not all of the time, the information is taken without their consent)

Hypocrisy.

But you know what, but of this things should be legally fine(well not always legal depending on where you live and who you're photographing), even if the price is personal discomfort.

Those people shared their own images publicly, on a site where people judge each other constantly. That's one thing. Not at great thing to share them, sure, but most images that make it to those blogs at least have some identifying info removed or omitted to keep said person anonymous besides their image.

What the issue is, is to be taking photos of others without their consent.

I agree, even I make fun of people sometimes. But not the the extent of endangering their personal safety through revealing sensitive personal information, whereabouts, or identity, with intent to harm.

The laws considering, how, where and who you can film/photograph is tricky, and ripe for abuse(In Illinois and man is facing up to 70 years of jail time for video taping a police officer, without the officers consent). I think if you're going to to make this issue about personal discomfort(not dangerous in itself) and that harm might come from it(hardly if not ever true, and not worth the price of freedom imo) we're going down the slippery slope argument, one in which I can easily make a scenario like "what if someone who saw this someone in this site whose opinion they though was unacceptable and they should be punished". It's not hard to know where, when images were taken, or the profile of any individual on that site.

You said it's about taking photos, but why should personal/individual feelings stop there? The people who went to these sites never intentioned for them to be on the okcgoldmine site, and I'm guessing there a few who felt hurt/humiliated/harmed, but you know what? That's okay.

FYI
I don't think the DMCA claim was justifiable when they took down the site, nor do I find the site objectionable.

Ugly/unattractive people are called creeps. That's really all there is too it.

As for the slut label, well, in my experience the only guys who call sexually active girls for sluts are the guys whom she is not having sex with... But I guess things differ.

I blame organized religion for making people ashamed of their sexuality. in american society, depictions of violence are perfectly acceptable, even glorified in sme cases, but the slightest hint of sexual situations can be met with outrage.

Im fine with whatever sexual preferance or fetish a person has unless it is blatantly wrong like beastiality

I'd love to live in a world where everybody is just open about sex, but that will just never happen. there is a distinction between saying hello to a girl and flirting, and just saying ''I WANT TO CUM IN YOUR ASS!''. I think the creep label and the slut label is kind of a false equivalency. It's hard to define a creep but it's basically just being overly sexual or desperate with strangers, staring at their asses and titties for prolonged periods of time. Where as, a slut is a girl who has sex with a bunch of different people all the time and it's just so easy to get them in bed. We view males who have lots of sex as alphas who are just awesome. Because it's easy for women to have sex, like almost any woman could just stand up in a public place and say ''anyone want to have sex?'' and at least one or two men will say ''sure.'' The point is that women have been pressured into finding the best mate and to be selective, where as men are pressured to take everything they can get with much more flexible standards.

When dealing with social situations it can be challenging to distinguish what makes a person come across as a "creep". I've dealt with men and women alike that would say things that made me uncomfortable, but I never found them creepy. How comfortable you are with social interaction and your personal experiences will shape how you decide to define another.

Men should be open and comfortable about their likes and dislikes, but getting to know the other person over generalized subjects and "small talk" can help with gauging the situation. I would be a little startled if a person I just met threw up that they love bondage and liked to be called a dirty pig. Once you establish a solid relationship then the comfort and openness about personal preferences can be initiated.

Not all relationships are like this, meaning that not all of them are going to work out. We hope to find others that are accepting of us, but this can be challenging since everyone has their own opinions. The best thing is to have confidence in yourself and to be proud of who you are (both good and bad qualities) and to continue living life until you find those you can come to care about.

One last issue is on the trust of women in relation to men. I have had a hard time with this as many women have had. We live in fear of those that could do harm to us, even from the people that we want to come to trust. There are many horror stories in relation to women having poor judgement and not noticing men (given the name creep) that take advantage of them. Every women is taught (or should be taught) to be careful of their surroundings and should be wary of those that pose a threat to their wellbeing. This can be taken to extremes and can affect all male relationships. This all boils down to the basic fact that every woman is different, some are very untrusting and others are.

The term "unique" or "individualistic" or "interesting" can replace the use of the word creep for those who have been wrongly labeled as such. If a girl appears uncomfortable, try to change your approach to appear less threatening (nice clean shirt, change topic of conversation, use open public settings as places for conversation) or just move on to the next person.

I'd say that what makes someone creepy is less about how honest they are about sex, and much more about the way they approach that honesty. In different situations, discussion of sex or "sexual needs" can and will be taken as a sexual advance, and if the man trying to suggest the topic persists, whether he intends to or not, he appears to be trying to hit on the person to whom he's speaking. That's one, general example.

Another important factor is assumption based on appearances. I'm not saying that ugly guys get the short end of the stick automatically. That's just not true. However, men who appear slovenly or unclean or ragged have a much harder time not being creepy. This is entirely based on the subjective ideas the person with whom the man is conversing has about what makes someone disgusting.

One last note: desperation. Guys who appear desperate or pleading for sex look, quite frankly, pathetic at best, rapisty at worst. Obsessive tendencies magnify this factor tenfold. Sometimes, what makes someone creepy is simply how off-putting their attitudes towards sex are, as well. People who want to degrade, to defame, and to deflower the world around them are seen as perverse, while people who want to engage in more mutually involved and more "vanilla" sex acts are perceived to be classier, or at least mainstream enough to be "normal."

Okay, I lied. Another point. Familiarity is key. I can talk to my best friends about the color of my piss this morning or the number of dicks I've touched and whatever the fuck, and it's totally acceptable. They don't care because they know and understand me and my intentions when I talk to them. However, if I were to go up to a stranger in a bar and reflect about how the best sex I've ever had was while I was on ecstasy,* they'd probably want to get the fuck away, ASAP.

Finally, creepy men don't pick up on social cues. They don't know when to stop. Sometimes, people assume they won't if confronted and just passively shrug and label people creeps. On the other hand, there are times when people just don't want to be bothered with whatever it is that the creep is talking about. I recall a man who would constantly regale my sorry ass with the never-ending chronicles of his lopsided polyamory. Sometimes, it was funny or hot or whatever it was supposed to be. Other times, I just needed him to shut the fuck up about his penis for five seconds. When I finally confronted him about it, he went on a rant about how he should always be able to talk about sex because it was his inalienable right to brag about his sexcapades. What I'm getting to with this:

People are labeled creepy because they cross boundaries. Sometimes it's not deliberate. Sometimes it is. It's always a subjective matter, in which a man becomes a creep because he fails to need the other's desires. If the person never voices those desires/boundaries/social protocols, then it's not entirely the creep's fault. If they do speak up about what's bothering them, and the man refuses to stop what he's doing, then he's just being a fucking asshole.

Lordy mercy. Long post.

*For the record, didn't happen. Just an example of something one probably shouldn't declare to a stranger.

I only meant that figuratively.