The Santa Problem

Saw the thread and found you'd already succinctly said what I wanted to right; give credit where credit's due, same as someone who survives risky surgery then thanks God, No!!! Thank the doctor!

Well Santa Clause is more believable than god.

I find it funny when someone denies Santa and believes in god when they are both similar.

I stopped believing in Santa when I was 6 because my brother told me he was not real.

Santa -> get presents Christmas morning

God -> get presents after you die (harder to "disprove")

Also, how do children with poor parents feel when they don't get as many toys as their friends? They probably feel really shitty and think that they aren't as good as the next kid who's parents are more wealthy (or at least, that's a possibility). Santa can be kind of be a downer for people. :(

The pain of learning these truths is nothing short of the growing up process.
You'd actually be taking away valuable life experience but not participating in it, though it isn't entirely neccesary either.

Children like to believe in Christmas and Santa, it's magical and fun, all in all i only see positive things in following the ancient tradition of promoting these childrens beliefs and then telling them the truth afterwards.

@ pizzabite: Very true... Kapitalisme can be a real bitch on that matter. Perhaps somehow the governments should do these things, to make it fairer. Note though, i haven't made any suggestion on HOW they would do it, there are so many pot holes now that i think about it that it will probably never happen.

People should be taught not to compare themselves to others.

Also:
-God doesn't require people to openly lie to you.
-God satisfies the ultimate "Why?"s, which science currently cannot.
-"Santa" Klaus is an extension of one of The Church's saints.
-There is scientific proof behind the historical accounts in scripture. No proof behind flying reindeer (magic dust?).
-Being a bitch won't make you feel safer as an Atheist. Education and rational thought will. I don't have a problem with atheism (enlightened argument). Just don't have a problem with me.

Actually it can make you openly lie to others. Just depends on your belief of that god.

It does not satisfy the question. If that is your way of thinking then saying magic fairies created the universe is also a valid answer. Pulling an answer out of your ass does not make it better than no answer.

Socrates once said that he held a young boy slave, who admitted to not knowing a question, above a higher class citizen, who pretended to know the answer without really knowing. I support this idea too. I respect a scientist who actually admits he doesn't know above a religious person who pretends to know but really doesn't.

Nobody knows the real answer to many questions about our universe, but that does not justify anyone else making up their own without evidence.

There is very little historical accuracy in the scriptures. You must know that history is written by the winners and will thus follow into their own bias. Even not taking that into account many of the original scriptures have been lost and all we are left with are shoddy translations by people who have their own agenda to serve.

Both god and Santa Claus have many things in common and a big one is that both have no evidence to support their claims. Any mythical creature I name will be equally valid when put side by side with god.

-The "lying" is actually a blindspot some followers choose to make, in order to aid belief.
-I'm not satisfying your question, make your own goddamned thread. My entire post="God is more believable than Santa Claus."
-"Because God says so" is not an answer to anything. Religious scientists strive to find "how", to compliment their "why". I said nothing about "knowing."
-There is evidence. If you want to put it scientifically, God could be compared to the unified theory. I'm also not arguing this in an unrelated thread.
-There is a rough timeline, featuring the important events. I said nothing about taking things literally (I personally don't See:homosexuals). By that logic, textbooks should not be trusted as research sources (even one of many), because the collaboration must be biased.
-Pegasus.

Take a moment, look deep within yourself, and read something written by the opposing side. There are rational people out there, who accept religion as a different explanation. If you step outside yourself for a moment, maybe you can see their viewpoint, and make a CHOICE not to agree.

I have read many books and writings from people who have an opposing view to mine. None of them can provide evidence. All they do is make arguments that already presuppose many things without actually providing evidence to those claims.

Not one has provided a demonstrable measurement for god from which we can test and gain results. That is what science is.

This is why I say Santa is just as valid as god, so is Zeus and Thor.

Well your sort of damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

Suppose you go along with the whole Santa thing, your kid is criticized for believing in a figment of imagination.

What if you DON'T go along with it, then what if your kid is the only one in school who says this, and looks like an ass?

Either way it goes, there is no escaping problems when it comes to saying to your child "Santa does/doesn't exist" Maybe let them believe what they want? It's hard to make that call, because it can go bad no matter how you slice it.

Very good post. I never thought of it that way.

Thinking about it, I think the best thing a parent could do is try to instill strength in his/her child. I highly doubt any six-year-old is going to be able to think critically about the existence of Santa or weigh what people say differently, and it is impossible to know how a child will react in any given situation. But if the parent tries to make the child strong, emotionally and mentally, then the child will be less likely to react negatively. Of course, expecting a child to be strong may be as silly as expecting a child to be logical, but I think trying to imbue strength into a child is the best thing to do in regards to the Santa problem. Even if it doesn't work at the time, and the child still sheds some tears, the child would be less likely to hold the memory in contempt in the future. While that isn't necessarily a solution, it allows the parent to go with either decision and be comfortable. At least, it seems that way to me.

hmmm...
care to share the scientific proof?

Rationality: Exact, valid, and rational reasoning.

Faith: Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

I think that Kids need something to believe in before they find out all the crap that goes on in the world. Kids should have fun and believe in things like Santa while they can. When A kid finds out or stops believing then I think that that just means they are ready to grow up and become a little more of an adult. The part about Santa that you can't be naughty is also pretty good for getting kids to behave. I know that even after I found out that Santa wasn't real I was still a better behaved boy.

Again, not arguing this in this thread. Hence the lack of proof, and sweeping statements. Make your own, and discussion could ensue.

I also think that offering santa as incentive is a bit jacked. Kids should have values instilled, rather than acting "good" conditionally.

Im feeling ignored...
you wrote: "There is scientific proof behind the historical accounts in scripture. No proof behind flying reindeer (magic dust?)"

Im not convinced that you are speaking the truth, sure you may have heard or seen it somewhere but I dont kow anything about your sources and they may be totaly wrong as far as I can tell.

Im asking you again where are the proof?
Show me the sources please?

I'm really tired of protecting children from every little thing in this world.
How many kids truly have psychological trauma from finding out Santa Claus was fiction?

When I was a kid, I don't even know how I found out - I think my older brother told me. At first it was a 'not ah, don't say that or Santa won't come' and then when I was a tiny bit older my parents would say it, I'd feel like a smart kid that I know something they don't, that Santa wasn't real. It was just a 'not ah, Santa's not real!'

I had no sorrow, I was only concerned that I wouldn't get anymore presents if I didn't believe in Santa ;p

Right now, the kids who are growing up in elementary/middle school - they're going to be fucked when they're adults. You aren't allowed to criticize a child in class, because it could hurt their feelings, you aren't allowed to use red ink to grade papers because it gives a negative feeling - both teams need congratulations and both teams need to feel like winners, etc etc. Society is putting this huge bubble over kids so they don't get hurt, they don't feel disappointed, fearing that they'll become depressed or they'll be sad because something went wrong during their childhood.

It's upsetting, because if kids don't get to experience hardships growing up, then they won't know how to handle themselves independently when they're adults when they face rejection, something being unfair, or somebody lying to them.

I'm not saying kids should be bullied, or kids should have somebody in their face saying they're not worth anything - but I am saying they shouldn't be sheltered from ANYTHING happening to them.

There's no Santa problem, there's just paranoid parents or asshole problems.

Guys, this is a thread about whether or not to tell kids about Santa. As the person who made the thread, I'd really like to not see any religious arguing. There's plenty of that already, and if you want to argue about it some more, you can start your own thread. Whether or not Santa exists or any shit like that isn't necessary or wanted here. Same with whether or not God exists or anything about the Bible. Unless, of course, a person is tell his kids that Santa isn't real because he feels that it betrays the Bible, but even then, the discussion wouldn't be about religion itself or God. It'd be about beliefs, with any person can have, regardless of religion.

I'm not going to point fingers or name names. Just stop it with the religious debate.

I apologize.

Im not really fond of kids and I wont have any as for if ever, ill tell him/her its just like any anime character on tv. S/he should freakin know the gifts are coming from me and not some mythical creature.

From what I remember though, there was a real human santa claus in the past on some european country I think.

Ziggy, I read what you said. I did not go to school here in the US so I didnt knew and I dont have kids. Wont that produce retard-like wimp kids? Forgive me, that was rude, I think the term would be poor development of adaptive skills? I mean isnt that what school is for in the first place. But i guess this is off topic so ill end it there.