The Soul
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This notion was brought on by BigLundi's meaning of life thread, I just thought you should know that lol.
So. Do you believe in a 'soul', what is a soul exactly? Some people say it links to religion and of course the overly-discussed topic of God.
Religious people say God 'gave' us a soul and our soul will return to him once we die, supposedly. Someone once told me that when we die our body loses about 20ish pounds of weight, and they said this was the soul leaving the body. Interesting observation I thought, but perhaps untrue. I reckon the body loses weight due to something related to the organs not working any more, but I'm not too sure on that subject.
Plato, arguably the greatest philosopher of all time, believed in a soul. He in fact made a theory called the 'World of the Forms' in which our souls originate from this 'World of the Forms' and that in this world lies the 'true Form' of, well, everything. So yes, apparently there is a perfect Form of a dog, a chair etc. But he was more interested in the Form of virtues like good, beauty, etc.
Anyway, Plato said that when we witness a tree for example, we usually 'know' it's a tree because of it's form. Apparently, our soul is 'remembering' it from the World of the Forms.
This was later discounted as not true for an obvious lack of evidence in this ever-growing science-orientated world we live in.
I suppose the soul is interpreted into some Asian cultures as 'qi' (pronounced chee) I think anyways, could be wrong. 'Qi' is basically inner energy and all that stuff to do with auras etc as they believe this 'qi' rests in the lower abdomen of the body and 'unlocked' through meditation.
TL;DR
As to not draw this post out too long:
Do you think the soul exists and what do you think it is?
So. Do you believe in a 'soul', what is a soul exactly? Some people say it links to religion and of course the overly-discussed topic of God.
Religious people say God 'gave' us a soul and our soul will return to him once we die, supposedly. Someone once told me that when we die our body loses about 20ish pounds of weight, and they said this was the soul leaving the body. Interesting observation I thought, but perhaps untrue. I reckon the body loses weight due to something related to the organs not working any more, but I'm not too sure on that subject.
Plato, arguably the greatest philosopher of all time, believed in a soul. He in fact made a theory called the 'World of the Forms' in which our souls originate from this 'World of the Forms' and that in this world lies the 'true Form' of, well, everything. So yes, apparently there is a perfect Form of a dog, a chair etc. But he was more interested in the Form of virtues like good, beauty, etc.
Anyway, Plato said that when we witness a tree for example, we usually 'know' it's a tree because of it's form. Apparently, our soul is 'remembering' it from the World of the Forms.
This was later discounted as not true for an obvious lack of evidence in this ever-growing science-orientated world we live in.
I suppose the soul is interpreted into some Asian cultures as 'qi' (pronounced chee) I think anyways, could be wrong. 'Qi' is basically inner energy and all that stuff to do with auras etc as they believe this 'qi' rests in the lower abdomen of the body and 'unlocked' through meditation.
TL;DR
As to not draw this post out too long:
Do you think the soul exists and what do you think it is?
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I think you meant 22 grams of weight when we die.
No one's been able to explain the 22 grams of loss, since no one's willing to repeat the experiment that brought about the idea of a soul weighing 22 grams.
No one's been able to explain the 22 grams of loss, since no one's willing to repeat the experiment that brought about the idea of a soul weighing 22 grams.
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I believe that the universe, aside from balls of mass, is made up of a network of consciousnesses that could be described as a 'universal computer'.
We are indistinguishable in this massive network of thought, until we 'download' into a physical form for an indeterminable but finite existence.
When our physical form shuts down for any of an extremely long list of probable causes, our consciousness is re-uploaded to the all-encompassing universal computer.
When we return to the Universal-God-Computer, the new data gleaned from the soul's experience in aforementioned physical form is added to the 'collective database' within the network, allowing the God-computer the wisdom of all living beings past, present, and future.
We are indistinguishable in this massive network of thought, until we 'download' into a physical form for an indeterminable but finite existence.
When our physical form shuts down for any of an extremely long list of probable causes, our consciousness is re-uploaded to the all-encompassing universal computer.
When we return to the Universal-God-Computer, the new data gleaned from the soul's experience in aforementioned physical form is added to the 'collective database' within the network, allowing the God-computer the wisdom of all living beings past, present, and future.
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As a psychology student, I do not believe in the human soul outside being a metaphor or symbolism.
This is a materialistic dimension. That is not to say our perceptions are what we think, but the traditional explanation of soul does not hold weight in my opinion.
This is a materialistic dimension. That is not to say our perceptions are what we think, but the traditional explanation of soul does not hold weight in my opinion.
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Lollikittie wrote...
I believe that the universe, aside from balls of mass, is made up of a network of consciousnesses that could be described as a 'universal computer'.We are indistinguishable in this massive network of thought, until we 'download' into a physical form for an indeterminable but finite existence.
When our physical form shuts down for any of an extremely long list of probable causes, our consciousness is re-uploaded to the all-encompassing universal computer.
When we return to the Universal-God-Computer, the new data gleaned from the soul's experience in aforementioned physical form is added to the 'collective database' within the network, allowing the God-computer the wisdom of all living beings past, present, and future.
Well, none of us will truly know if whether or not a soul does indeed exist.
A man long ago once said that the soul dies with the body. He was branded a heretic and was burned for his beliefs.
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Proxy2128 wrote...
I think you meant 22 grams of weight when we die.No one's been able to explain the 22 grams of loss, since no one's willing to repeat the experiment that brought about the idea of a soul weighing 22 grams.
hehe, sorry my bad, I did indeed mean grams >_>
Lollikittie wrote...
I believe that the universe, aside from balls of mass, is made up of a network of consciousnesses that could be described as a 'universal computer'.We are indistinguishable in this massive network of thought, until we 'download' into a physical form for an indeterminable but finite existence.
When our physical form shuts down for any of an extremely long list of probable causes, our consciousness is re-uploaded to the all-encompassing universal computer.
When we return to the Universal-God-Computer, the new data gleaned from the soul's experience in aforementioned physical form is added to the 'collective database' within the network, allowing the God-computer the wisdom of all living beings past, present, and future.
Interesting analogy you have there, reminds me of Avatar for some reason lol.
Lishy1 wrote...
As a psychology student, I do not believe in the human soul outside being a metaphor or symbolism.This is a materialistic dimension. That is not to say our perceptions are what we think, but the traditional explanation of soul does not hold weight in my opinion.
It is true to an extent that this is a materialistic dimension. However, that assumption would be limiting it to what we perceive with our 5 senses. I'd like to refer you to some of the waves in the Electromagnetic Spectrum. Can we interpret say, Gamma Rays with our naked senses? I don't think we can anyway, I'd prefer not to be anywhere near Gamma Rays lol.
It is also scientifically proven that all humans have an electro magnetic field, which I guess is what people call an aura. You can't really perceive this electro magnetic field either without the correct equipment.
Basically: What is to say there are not other dimensional aspects going on around us?
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I don't know what the fuck is going on around us. But I'm going to try my best as a person on this earth than dabble with silly things like the soul. Let god sort em' out.
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Lishy1 wrote...
I don't know what the fuck is going on around us. But I'm going to try my best as a person on this earth than dabble with silly things like the soul. Let god sort em' out.As you said, let God sort em' out.
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In a religious way;
I'd like to but I'd just be lying to myself.
Comes down to comforting lies vs cold truths. I chose reality.
Any other way;
Haven't thought about it.
I'd like to but I'd just be lying to myself.
Comes down to comforting lies vs cold truths. I chose reality.
Any other way;
Haven't thought about it.
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I honestly haven't the slightest idea. I hold a more scientific outlook, so I think our very being and consciousness is merely within the brain.
On the other hand, I feel like there could be something that could be interpreted as a soul.
I don't know. As for the human body loosing mass after death. I'm not sure of that's myth or fact. I can honestly tell you that the assumption that the body loses weight after death is not organ losing function. Even if an organ is working, it still holds the mass, and that mass doesn't simply not exist while it's functioning. It's still there, and would still be accounted for. In fact, through this point of view, it would make more sense that the body would gain weight after death.
On the other hand, I feel like there could be something that could be interpreted as a soul.
I don't know. As for the human body loosing mass after death. I'm not sure of that's myth or fact. I can honestly tell you that the assumption that the body loses weight after death is not organ losing function. Even if an organ is working, it still holds the mass, and that mass doesn't simply not exist while it's functioning. It's still there, and would still be accounted for. In fact, through this point of view, it would make more sense that the body would gain weight after death.
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dragonsheart967 wrote...
I honestly haven't the slightest idea. I hold a more scientific outlook, so I think our very being and consciousness is merely within the brain.On the other hand, I feel like there could be something that could be interpreted as a soul.
I don't know. As for the human body loosing mass after death. I'm not sure of that's myth or fact. I can honestly tell you that the assumption that the body loses weight after death is not organ losing function. Even if an organ is working, it still holds the mass, and that mass doesn't simply not exist while it's functioning. It's still there, and would still be accounted for. In fact, through this point of view, it would make more sense that the body would gain weight after death.
From what I gathered, a doctor wanted to prove that the soul did exist, and like every other thing that does exist, he thought the soul had mass. While his experiments did bring about the possibility of a soul existing, (his subjects were patients who were all terminally ill, and he thus recorded their weights before and after they had died. Though he only had four subjects at the time, he noticed one thing all four lost; 22 grams), his experiment was brought to an abrupt end.
One OTHER thing that experiment brought about was that beam scale you'd see, and more than likely step on, at the doctors office.
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Proxy2128 wrote...
dragonsheart967 wrote...
I honestly haven't the slightest idea. I hold a more scientific outlook, so I think our very being and consciousness is merely within the brain.On the other hand, I feel like there could be something that could be interpreted as a soul.
I don't know. As for the human body loosing mass after death. I'm not sure of that's myth or fact. I can honestly tell you that the assumption that the body loses weight after death is not organ losing function. Even if an organ is working, it still holds the mass, and that mass doesn't simply not exist while it's functioning. It's still there, and would still be accounted for. In fact, through this point of view, it would make more sense that the body would gain weight after death.
From what I gathered, a doctor wanted to prove that the soul did exist, and like every other thing that does exist, he thought the soul had mass. While his experiments did bring about the possibility of a soul existing, (his subjects were patients who were all terminally ill, and he thus recorded their weights before and after they had died. Though he only had four subjects at the time, he noticed one thing all four lost; 22 grams), his experiment was brought to an abrupt end.
One OTHER thing that experiment brought about was that beam scale you'd see, and more than likely step on, at the doctors office.
We just don't know if that was the soul or something that merely a medical expert can tell us. I was just saying that it couldn't originate from an organ unless there was some odd chemical reaction or something that occurs after death.
I'm not sure how long ago this experiment was conducted, but considering the medical knowledge we have gained if it was more that several decades ago, then it may very well be inconclusive.
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dragonsheart967 wrote...
Proxy2128 wrote...
dragonsheart967 wrote...
I honestly haven't the slightest idea. I hold a more scientific outlook, so I think our very being and consciousness is merely within the brain.On the other hand, I feel like there could be something that could be interpreted as a soul.
I don't know. As for the human body loosing mass after death. I'm not sure of that's myth or fact. I can honestly tell you that the assumption that the body loses weight after death is not organ losing function. Even if an organ is working, it still holds the mass, and that mass doesn't simply not exist while it's functioning. It's still there, and would still be accounted for. In fact, through this point of view, it would make more sense that the body would gain weight after death.
From what I gathered, a doctor wanted to prove that the soul did exist, and like every other thing that does exist, he thought the soul had mass. While his experiments did bring about the possibility of a soul existing, (his subjects were patients who were all terminally ill, and he thus recorded their weights before and after they had died. Though he only had four subjects at the time, he noticed one thing all four lost; 22 grams), his experiment was brought to an abrupt end.
One OTHER thing that experiment brought about was that beam scale you'd see, and more than likely step on, at the doctors office.
We just don't know if that was the soul or something that merely a medical expert can tell us. I was just saying that it couldn't originate from an organ unless there was some odd chemical reaction or something that occurs after death.
I'm not sure how long ago this experiment was conducted, but considering the medical knowledge we have gained if it was more that several decades ago, then it may very well be inconclusive.
I would like to say the experiment occured somewhere in the early 1900's, though I could be mistaken.
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Our consciousness is from electrochemical sparks....All those sparks stop, we are dead. Maybe the soul is electrical. Simple energy being not so simple, its basically what I believe about the soul in an actual measurable way. Other than that it is basically a loose bit of life energy that is reused. I can't hazard a guess beyond that.
Duncan MacDougall's work is very odd though, he experimented with animals and people who were about to die, finding that about 21 grams was lost shortly after a person died. However It has never been able to be reproduced, so it might have just been a religious man trying to prove his faith though science.
Duncan MacDougall's work is very odd though, he experimented with animals and people who were about to die, finding that about 21 grams was lost shortly after a person died. However It has never been able to be reproduced, so it might have just been a religious man trying to prove his faith though science.
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leonard267
FAKKU Non-Writer
Sunduction wrote...
I suppose the soul is interpreted into some Asian cultures as 'qi' (pronounced chee) I think anyways, could be wrong. 'Qi' is basically inner energy and all that stuff to do with auras etc as they believe this 'qi' rests in the lower abdomen of the body and 'unlocked' through meditation.
I apologise for not contributing to your discussion about souls. However, I can tell you a little more about qi. "Qi" is best translated into life energy or energy instead of a type consciousness that transcends death like a soul. Once you die, you have no more "qi".
"Qi" is used to describe your mood and your state of mind for anyone who is familiar with the Chinese language. (I apologise again for the use of Chinese characters). This implies that "qi", is alike to one's aura, and can affect one's mood or state of mind.
Eg: Shengqi (生气) Anger
Shenqibobo (生气勃勃) Lively
Shenqi (神气) Pride
Yongqi (勇气) Bravery
Siqichenchen (æ»æ°”沉沉) Not lively, deadpan
This is to prove my point that "qi" is associated with one's state of mind.
The concept of "Qi" is used Traditional Chinese Medicine, of which I am not familiar with. I am under the impression that the flow of "qi" in one's body can adversely or positively contribute to your health.
ED: The 22g lost when you die, I suspect it is the body producing carbon dioxide as it begins to decay or some other gas escaping from the body.
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I'm a ginger, I don't have a soul, couldn't care less.
I take most things that doesn't have proof to not exist.
I take most things that doesn't have proof to not exist.
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leonard267 wrote...
Sunduction wrote...
I suppose the soul is interpreted into some Asian cultures as 'qi' (pronounced chee) I think anyways, could be wrong. 'Qi' is basically inner energy and all that stuff to do with auras etc as they believe this 'qi' rests in the lower abdomen of the body and 'unlocked' through meditation.
I apologise for not contributing to your discussion about souls. However, I can tell you a little more about qi. "Qi" is best translated into life energy or energy instead of a type consciousness that transcends death like a soul. Once you die, you have no more "qi".
"Qi" is used to describe your mood and your state of mind for anyone who is familiar with the Chinese language. (I apologise again for the use of Chinese characters). This implies that "qi", is alike to one's aura, and can affect one's mood or state of mind.
Eg: Shengqi (生气) Anger
Shenqibobo (生气勃勃) Lively
Shenqi (神气) Pride
Yongqi (勇气) Bravery
Siqichenchen (æ»æ°”沉沉) Not lively, deadpan
This is to prove my point that "qi" is associated with one's state of mind.
The concept of "Qi" is used Traditional Chinese Medicine, of which I am not familiar with. I am under the impression that the flow of "qi" in one's body can adversely or positively contribute to your health.
ED: The 22g lost when you die, I suspect it is the body producing carbon dioxide as it begins to decay or some other gas escaping from the body.
Fret not, rather forgive my ignorance on the topic of 'qi'.
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There really is no proof we have souls. It's just a made up word. Although I would totally love it if we had one (since it implies we live after we die), I just can't find myself believing humans have souls. There's probably something like it or relative, but then again, how would I know? How would you know? This conversation would be much more interesting if we had "concrete" proof of souls.
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[color=#2e1a6b]So... I replied to biglundi's thread, which inspired biglundi to make another thread, which inspired you to make this thread...
I believe that a soul is just an embodiment of one's conscience. at death, the soul continues to exist, having the same conscience from when he was alive. In this state, the soul is basically a ghost. different religons have different explanations of what happens to the soul, but according to Christianity, they follow this complex chart
I believe that a soul is just an embodiment of one's conscience. at death, the soul continues to exist, having the same conscience from when he was alive. In this state, the soul is basically a ghost. different religons have different explanations of what happens to the soul, but according to Christianity, they follow this complex chart
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Meh.
There is no rational proof that the soul exists.
Personnally, being a fervent believer in magic(and fireballs), I would say yes, the soul exists, but because we can't proove it, I'm as useful as a fish out of water.
Also, I would say that the 22 grams you lose when you die could possibly be the air leaving our body, witnessed as the "breath of death", last action of the corpse as its lungs fold upon themselves under the weight of the thoraxic cage.
There is no rational proof that the soul exists.
Personnally, being a fervent believer in magic(and fireballs), I would say yes, the soul exists, but because we can't proove it, I'm as useful as a fish out of water.
Also, I would say that the 22 grams you lose when you die could possibly be the air leaving our body, witnessed as the "breath of death", last action of the corpse as its lungs fold upon themselves under the weight of the thoraxic cage.