The US Govt restarting Guantanamo Bay

[font=Verdana][color=green]Just recently, it has been released that the US Govt will commence Guantanamo Bay military commissions. This is two years after Obama promised to close down the prison within the year. Obama has said that it would "broaden our ability to bring terrorists to justice"; as well as introducing a new process in which prisoners who haven't been charged or convicted will still be held in the prison.

Here's the article which explains this in fuller detail:

Obama to restart Guantanamo military commissons

So, what are your thoughts on this? I, personally, believe that this is a betrayal to the American citizens who voted for him. Whilst it could be said that this benefits America's, and by part Britain's, national safety; why has it taken so long for him to realise that in the first place? This is certainly an interesting turnaround.

Please, express your thoughts on this.

it looks like they might start serving inmates cockmeat sandwich agian



i wonder what it would have been like if mccain was in the white house?

meh. I dont really care about it much, the only thing im urked about is that everyones gonna flip the hell out on him about going back on himself. i dont think its that biga deal but there gonna crucify him for it

You don't think torture is a big deal?

Not at all. tis a fact of life. Humans are a truly despicable race. Ive accepted it, and im not gonna change something thats never going to change.

I'm surprised people actually expected him to come through on that particular promise.

It seemed the alternative was shipping whomever was there to prisons stateside, a very unpopular sentiment.

It was only shut down as a symbolic gesture to say, "Oh, we are past that whole torture thing" but strategically there was not a good reason to close it down. I don't think they should of shut it down in the first place - they just needed to stop doing the stupid stuff they were doing there, like cockmeat sandwiches.

you must have never been to military school, that place is a living hell

I suppose genocide isn't a big deal either.

agian. nope. its human nature. I really couldn't give a shit, even if I was one of the ones killed. id fight sure but if death was inevitable id accept it.

Obama's not stupid. He obviously wouldn't go back on one of his key policies unless he really had no other choice. I'm not for human torture myself, but sometimes necessary evils like Guantanamo do need to exist because as much as we all want the world doesn't just run perfectly like we'd all want to.

Well... it isn't like they are opening Gitmo to torture people... >.>
They know there are going to be people all over that place just waiting to find something to report on. Soldiers leak info to reporters all the time and very easily.

[font=Verdana][color=green]It's human nature? That is pathetic. If it truly were human nature, a single race would have already been established. If you back that up with some actual facts, I'll be willing to listen to you more.

But yes, whilst G.B is of high strategic importance, I do feel that some of the things conducted their are just pointless. Torture; yes, whilst it is a big deal, it is something that we'll just have to accept. The humiliation tactics, however, are something which I do not approve of - I don't approve of torture, but it harbours results.

the only bit of information i need is our history, in ALL of human history we've been compelled to kill each other, do unspeakable acts, for as long as recorded history goes back you will see this. thats all i need to know

Yes, but in each instance human history is also strewn with acts of compassion that man has for one another regardless of race.

[font=Verdana][color=green]You make it sound like humans were simply killing for the sake of it. That isn't the case; the true fact is that humans fight each other of different ideals or beliefs, or most commonly, for supplies, minerals and energy supplies (and the like). Humans are not genocidal, but greedy and selfish.

But please, get back on topic about G.B.

No one was taling about shutting down the *base* in G.B. Only the *prison*...
which is very much called for, as all it ever was was legal shenanigans to allow illegal imprisonment of people by the USA without the USA violating its own laws.

G.B Prison has to go, as it's a blatant violation of international law.

It's a violation of the UN Convention Against Torture... of which the USA is a signatory state.

Once again: torture as a form of information gathering does NOT work. Get it into your thick skulls. The only thing it's good for is to break people's will and make them "admit" their crimes in a show trial.

It's also a farce over everything that justice should be:
-Fair Trial
-Habeas Corpus
-Protection of Innocence

Why haven't Gitmo detainees put on trial? Because Uncle Sam really fucked up, and often times they have *nothing* on these guys! Just some informant claiming that they're Al-Q. That's *all*.

...and these poor bastards have been there for *years*. No lawyer, no appeal, no chance to do anything about their status.

When a civilization sinks so low, even the extreme tactics of terrorism are beginning to be justified, as what the terrorist do - kill and main innocents - is no different from a legal and moral standpoint to what the USA is doing in Gitmo right now.

Come on! We should accept on their *claims* alone with *no over-sight* that *all* these guys are dangerous terrorists? Then why haven't been they tried? Huh?

PS.: Obama is a soaping, wet pussy. The black prince of compromise and him being black is his *only* good point at this point. He's done *nothing* to curtail the excesses of his predecessor, carried over a lot of the insane policies then put into practice and did nothing to bring the criminals of the previous administration to justice. In fact he's been co-opted into the the racket himself.

Goldman Sachs? Lehman Brothers? Hello! Am I the only one who watched Inside Job, who read Matt Tabithi, who *knows* how much Wall Street has ripped us all off... and got away scoot free?

[font=Verdana][color=green]Torture is a tricky subject.

There is evidence BOTH ways which suggest that it works and doesn't. Of course, there has been a lot of evidence which suggests that, just like you said, it makes them "admit" to their crimes. I have even heard of stories where the interrogators feeded the inmates facts about the case; only to allow the inmates admit to the crimes, using these facts to piece together a story.

However, albeit that this evidence is far less than the original point, but it has been suggested that torture, and in conjunction G.B, can actually be a deterrent. Now, I don't know how I stand on this point. I think that this is very idealistic at best. If it truly were a deterrent, then the US wouldn't be so quick to detain prisoners at the drop of a hat. Does anyone here have any thoughts on this point?

However, Flaser, whilst I admit I was waiting for your post, I was also waiting for your needless insults. I've said to you sooo many times in the past, and to others for that matter, but keep personal attacks out of this section. This is Serious Discussion; and professionalism and common decency must be adhered to.

Thank you.

I'm not seeing the personal attacks. What I see is a passionate post.

That's not to say that I agree, exactly. I don't think Obama has any kind of leeway with most of these issues. Ultimately, the people in Gitmo ought never have been kept beyond a couple of months, but coming into power that far into the process...at least the reopening of commissions represents some step towards emptying the place out. It is a compromise, true enough, but 'restarting' is a hugely misleading word here. No-one new is entering, and the American public would have Obama's head if any severe sentences came of the proceedings.

More generally, I'm not sure how you expected Obama to curtail the excesses of Bush, Flaser. He wasn't exactly going to revert to new federalism. You could say that his ideological standpoint set him up for the bank-pandering compromises, but that was an inevitable result of the policy programme he always aimed to pursue, and the adversarial brand of politics that it spawned.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-15-2010/respect-my-authoritah

Broken promises:

*Close down Guantanamo
*Restore Habeas Corpus
*Say no to renditions
*Say no to warrant-less wiretaps
*Break the fervor of fear that has been exploited by the Bush administration
(Airport security theater? Danger levels from red to violet?)

So what the hell has happened?