US Representative Shot at meeting with Constituents
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Story is still developing...The punchline is that a member of the House of Representatives held a meeting with her constituents (people she represents) in person outside a grocery store to talk about issues important to them. A man saw fit to shoot her in the head and several others, killing at least one person. The congresswoman and many others are in critical condition and are in surgery.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110108/us_nm/us_usa_shooting_congresswoman
The question I'm going to throw out is: What is the most extreme form of protest that you would tolerate a politician having to endure? Obviously shooting them is taking it way too far, and it doesn't accomplish anything that you want.
For me, mudslinging or burning in effigy would be it. Express to the public what they don't stand for, or their questionable views. If you really don't like them, you can be cute and be historical and burn a representation of them. It's not a death threat per se, but the politician would get the idea.
Yes, all these people mostly care about getting re-elected. But this woman was shot at a place where she, at the worst, was pretending to give a damn. Maybe she's even a good soul and really wanted to connect with the people to best represent them.
If this woman dies, it doesn't matter what she stood for. She will be martyred and immortalized, and I am not saying that's a bad thing. That's simply how it's done.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110108/us_nm/us_usa_shooting_congresswoman
The question I'm going to throw out is: What is the most extreme form of protest that you would tolerate a politician having to endure? Obviously shooting them is taking it way too far, and it doesn't accomplish anything that you want.
For me, mudslinging or burning in effigy would be it. Express to the public what they don't stand for, or their questionable views. If you really don't like them, you can be cute and be historical and burn a representation of them. It's not a death threat per se, but the politician would get the idea.
Yes, all these people mostly care about getting re-elected. But this woman was shot at a place where she, at the worst, was pretending to give a damn. Maybe she's even a good soul and really wanted to connect with the people to best represent them.
If this woman dies, it doesn't matter what she stood for. She will be martyred and immortalized, and I am not saying that's a bad thing. That's simply how it's done.
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Ugh, read this in the paper today.
I almost thought for a moment that this happened in a foreign country... I thought this kind of shit wasn't happening to women politicians anymore in the states. So much for that idea. -_____-'
I almost thought for a moment that this happened in a foreign country... I thought this kind of shit wasn't happening to women politicians anymore in the states. So much for that idea. -_____-'
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animefreak_usa
Child of Samael
Mmmm i thought of shooting the douche congressman in my area many times, and he deserves to be shot, but actually doing it, well no. No rational person would kill a person without a just cause more than their opinion and politics. This is America, we use logic and lawful means to get rid of politicians, unlike other countries where defying the status quo would lead to civil war and assassination of candidates. Going make a judgment call and say she as a liberal and the shooter was extreme right wing which makes sense because they are bat shit crazy... my brother is one, but at least the right wingers have some moral and ethical backbone then shoot at a congressperson and judges... poor little girl who saw it in person.
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beeza wrote...
If this woman dies, it doesn't matter what she stood for. She will be martyred and immortalized, and I am not saying that's a bad thing. That's simply how it's done.
I think you are underestimating what it takes to become a martyr. Maybe if she was pushing revolutionary acts through congress, or was singlehandedly uniting both parties and then was shot, then she would probably become a martyr, but just the death of a public figure doesn't equal the creation of a martyr, they have to be a symbol for something already to achieve martyrdom.
Spoiler:
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GroverCleaveland wrote...
beeza wrote...
If this woman dies, it doesn't matter what she stood for. She will be martyred and immortalized, and I am not saying that's a bad thing. That's simply how it's done.
I think you are underestimating what it takes to become a martyr. Maybe if she was pushing revolutionary acts through congress, or was singlehandedly uniting both parties and then was shot, then she would probably become a martyr, but just the death of a public figure doesn't equal the creation of a martyr, they have to be a symbol for something already to achieve martyrdom.
Spoiler:
Oh she'll be a symbol. They'll twist her death to represent all that is good about the democrats and bad about the republicans. What's somewhat amusing is she was one of the targets on Sarah Palin's 'hit list'. This is a political nightmare for the right wing, which actually gets you thinking if the democrats didn't conspire this themselves...
I'm just ranting. Good news is that the congresswoman looks to be okay. The bad news is that five people have been confirmed dead, including a nine-year-old girl.
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beeza wrote...
GroverCleaveland wrote...
beeza wrote...
If this woman dies, it doesn't matter what she stood for. She will be martyred and immortalized, and I am not saying that's a bad thing. That's simply how it's done.
I think you are underestimating what it takes to become a martyr. Maybe if she was pushing revolutionary acts through congress, or was singlehandedly uniting both parties and then was shot, then she would probably become a martyr, but just the death of a public figure doesn't equal the creation of a martyr, they have to be a symbol for something already to achieve martyrdom.
Spoiler:
Oh she'll be a symbol. They'll twist her death to represent all that is good about the democrats and bad about the republicans. What's somewhat amusing is she was one of the targets on Sarah Palin's 'hit list'. This is a political nightmare for the right wing, which actually gets you thinking if the democrats didn't conspire this themselves...
I'm just ranting. Good news is that the congresswoman looks to be okay. The bad news is that five people have been confirmed dead, including a nine-year-old boy.
New Hampshire might have done good with constitutional carry, but when I heard AZ was doing it too...Well, let's just say I'm not entirely surprised something like this happened. Why I support the NICS background checks for gun purchases.
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Let's hope this is a one-time event. I fear any copycats killers out there. They could be angry at the state of the county (i.e. unemployment) and decide that they have nothing to lose in going to kill a political leader.
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animefreak_usa
Child of Samael
Oh crap the little girl died.... May this fucknut be shank'd while a big bad man rapes him in prison.. it's wrong of me to hope the dude dies in a horrible way, just because of the innocent victims that had no part in his sick little emotional problem on politics.
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Takerial
Lovable Teddy Bear
Shooter was a nutjob. Was just looking for an excuse to be a nutjob.
Sad that people are willing to stomp over everything and try to use this for political gains. Horrible.
Sad that people are willing to stomp over everything and try to use this for political gains. Horrible.
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Shooter was just a crazy person looking for a public figure. There isn't anything to say about this besides how horrible and senseless it was.
The saddest part is the 9 year old girl. Imagine standing in front of a store with a group of people who are talking about things you don't even understand. You're just there because you have to be, then some idiot does something so indescribably awful.
The saddest part is the 9 year old girl. Imagine standing in front of a store with a group of people who are talking about things you don't even understand. You're just there because you have to be, then some idiot does something so indescribably awful.
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I heard that the youngest victim in the shooting was a 9 y/o girl who was born on September 11th, 2001. Much sadness abound.
(Unless I'm getting news mixed up again, since it's late, I'm tired, and stuff happens...)
(Unless I'm getting news mixed up again, since it's late, I'm tired, and stuff happens...)
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Just read that the 9 year old was Dallas Greens granddaughter. (Baseball Manager if you dont know)
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animefreak_usa wrote...
liberalGabrielle Giffords is a 'Blue Dog" centrist who supported immigration controls and gun rights (oh the irony).
I'm a bit cut off from the information feed nowadays (I'm just too damn lazy to check news sites every morning).
While the motive is unknown at the moment since the suspect has turtles up with his fifth amendment rights I can't help but suspect that there will certainly be a wave calling for gun bans.
Not to mention that every anti-government individual and organization will now be under increased scrutiny do to this twits actions.
I suspect more than anything this was just a way for him to get his political message heard by a larger population or he plans on using his court trial as a platform for his pontificating.
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Flaser
OCD Hentai Collector
animefreak_usa wrote...
Mmmm i thought of shooting the douche congressman in my area many times, and he deserves to be shot, but actually doing it, well no. No rational person would kill a person without a just cause more than their opinion and politics. This is America, we use logic and lawful means to get rid of politicians, unlike other countries where defying the status quo would lead to civil war and assassination of candidates. Going make a judgment call and say she as a liberal and the shooter was extreme right wing which makes sense because they are bat shit crazy... my brother is one, but at least the right wingers have some moral and ethical backbone then shoot at a congressperson and judges... poor little girl who saw it in person.Are you kidding? During the 20th century the USA has had more public figures as well as presidents assassinated than most of Europe combined.
Kalistean wrote...
Shooter was a nutjob. Was just looking for an excuse to be a nutjob.Sad that people are willing to stomp over everything and try to use this for political gains. Horrible.
It always is... a lone mental patient who has somehow escaped from a facility hundreds of miles away, went to this exact rally then pulled the trigger and afterwards can't even say why he did it. That's how typically a disposable gunman in chosen.
http://exiledonline.com/obama-beware-jfks-blood-watered-the-crazy-rightwings-tree-of-liberty/
http://exiledonline.com/mark-ames-presents-wisdom-for-the-ages-always-rush-a-gun-and-run-from-a-knife/
http://exiledonline.com/who-remembers-the-strange-hit-job-on-nicholas-deak/
[size=9]While it’s certainly possible that a man as powerful and murky as Deak, with as many big secrets he held, could have been killed by a “lone nut” who randomly happened to come all the way from Seattle to Orlando to Manhattan and shoot him. But that story strains belief.
I wouldn’t really give a shit about Deak’s murder myself if the way he was killed didn’t trigger a bad flashback to Moscow. It was 2002, I was running The eXile almost alone because Taibbi and Krazy Kevin split to start up a paper in Buffalo right when this problem started to heat up. After a few months, it snowballed into something serious, and then scary. I was determined not to give in, and the very night that I was about to publish an aggressive article slamming the goons and daring them to kill me, a good Russian friend called me to tell me that they were going to take up my dare and I was a dead man if I didn’t back down quickly. This friend, I’ll call him Pavlik, was by this time nearly an oligarch in terms of his power and money (I’d known him back in the mid-90s when he was looking for work). He’d heard about how I was confronting people from a particular grupperovka, told me at 3am to stop production of the newspaper and cancel my articles, and had his driver pick me up from The eXile’s offices.
I was driven to a bar where Pavlik was waiting, along with two old pals of his who were on the criminal-underworld side of Moscow’s economy. When I walked in, they all gave me an almost embarrassed look, something like pity, and that’s when I realized I’d fucked up. I was already a dead man–and one of the stupidest they’d ever come across.
“Don’t you know who these fucking people are?” Pavlik said. “Listen, Mark, this isn’t a game, mate. [He always preferred the British "mate" to our "dude."] It doesn’t matter that you’re American–they don’t give a fuck about your passport. You will 100 percent for sure be killed if you do not back down now and do everything as I say. You understand? You will be killed. I don’t want to see you die. I don’t know how else to make this clear to you, mate. I’ve already seen plenty of it, and I don’t want to see it again. It’s not worth it, mate. You can’t win, you’re just fucked. That’s what these people do. And let me tell you how they will kill you, so that you understand. Because I know, okay? These fuckers, they won’t shoot you today, they won’t shoot you tomorrow. It won’t happen like that. They won’t break into your flat and kill you. They’ll do it in a way that no one would think of the connection. They will wait and it will look random, totally random. Six months from now, a year, two years from now, whatever is most convenient for them, some random thing will happen to you. You’ll be walking down a street, and some crazy bomzh with a knife will just fucking stab you, okay? Or some junkie will just stick you with an infected needle. Or a brick will fall from a construction site. It will look like an accident, or like something completely random, and that will be it. You’ll be fucking dead.”
Seeing Pavlik switching from hysteria to resignation was enough to convince me. I took his advice to the T, and he rescued my ass (so far at least). He talked to his people, who talked to their people. Money was paid, apologies were written. I sure as fuck didn’t want to die like that, knifed by some Russian homeless person, for no apparent reason.
Reading about Deak’s murder, I couldn’t help but think, “Hey! I recognize that! It’s a hit job!”[/h]
I wouldn’t really give a shit about Deak’s murder myself if the way he was killed didn’t trigger a bad flashback to Moscow. It was 2002, I was running The eXile almost alone because Taibbi and Krazy Kevin split to start up a paper in Buffalo right when this problem started to heat up. After a few months, it snowballed into something serious, and then scary. I was determined not to give in, and the very night that I was about to publish an aggressive article slamming the goons and daring them to kill me, a good Russian friend called me to tell me that they were going to take up my dare and I was a dead man if I didn’t back down quickly. This friend, I’ll call him Pavlik, was by this time nearly an oligarch in terms of his power and money (I’d known him back in the mid-90s when he was looking for work). He’d heard about how I was confronting people from a particular grupperovka, told me at 3am to stop production of the newspaper and cancel my articles, and had his driver pick me up from The eXile’s offices.
I was driven to a bar where Pavlik was waiting, along with two old pals of his who were on the criminal-underworld side of Moscow’s economy. When I walked in, they all gave me an almost embarrassed look, something like pity, and that’s when I realized I’d fucked up. I was already a dead man–and one of the stupidest they’d ever come across.
“Don’t you know who these fucking people are?” Pavlik said. “Listen, Mark, this isn’t a game, mate. [He always preferred the British "mate" to our "dude."] It doesn’t matter that you’re American–they don’t give a fuck about your passport. You will 100 percent for sure be killed if you do not back down now and do everything as I say. You understand? You will be killed. I don’t want to see you die. I don’t know how else to make this clear to you, mate. I’ve already seen plenty of it, and I don’t want to see it again. It’s not worth it, mate. You can’t win, you’re just fucked. That’s what these people do. And let me tell you how they will kill you, so that you understand. Because I know, okay? These fuckers, they won’t shoot you today, they won’t shoot you tomorrow. It won’t happen like that. They won’t break into your flat and kill you. They’ll do it in a way that no one would think of the connection. They will wait and it will look random, totally random. Six months from now, a year, two years from now, whatever is most convenient for them, some random thing will happen to you. You’ll be walking down a street, and some crazy bomzh with a knife will just fucking stab you, okay? Or some junkie will just stick you with an infected needle. Or a brick will fall from a construction site. It will look like an accident, or like something completely random, and that will be it. You’ll be fucking dead.”
Seeing Pavlik switching from hysteria to resignation was enough to convince me. I took his advice to the T, and he rescued my ass (so far at least). He talked to his people, who talked to their people. Money was paid, apologies were written. I sure as fuck didn’t want to die like that, knifed by some Russian homeless person, for no apparent reason.
Reading about Deak’s murder, I couldn’t help but think, “Hey! I recognize that! It’s a hit job!”[/h]
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I don't think the culprit was simply aiming for the politician. Since I do not have complete knowledge of the entire situation, I will assume the other victims are innocent bystanders nor holding any position in the government. May I enquire if there were any security measures in place when the unfortunate incident occurred?
All of us have different views on differing matters, including politics, but killing someone because s/he disagrees with one's viewpoint is wrong.
All of us have different views on differing matters, including politics, but killing someone because s/he disagrees with one's viewpoint is wrong.
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Gambler wrote...
I don't think the culprit was simply aiming for the politician. Since I do not have complete knowledge of the entire situation, I will assume the other victims are innocent bystanders nor holding any position in the government. May I enquire if there were any security measures in place when the unfortunate incident occurred?All of us have different views on differing matters, including politics, but killing someone because s/he disagrees with one's viewpoint is wrong.
Authorities say that the evidence points to this being a planned event to specifically assassinate Giffords.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/us/10giffords.html?hp
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animefreak_usa
Child of Samael
Gambler wrote...
I don't think the culprit was simply aiming for the politician. Since I do not have complete knowledge of the entire situation, I will assume the other victims are innocent bystanders nor holding any position in the government. May I enquire if there were any security measures in place when the unfortunate incident occurred?All of us have different views on differing matters, including politics, but killing someone because s/he disagrees with one's viewpoint is wrong.
I believe congresspeople and senators are not provided security by the government like other high government people since their so many of them and you never think a nut job would shoot at them in America. I'm sure most hire private security or the police provide it for them. In Afghanistan a politician came to the camp i was in and we provided outer security and he was cover by either private or special ops... can't tell them apart in the field.
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Takerial
Lovable Teddy Bear
He did plan the assassination.
However, he did also seem to be aiming to kill as many people as he could. He was apparently stopped when he attempted to reload, meaning he was planning on continuing.
However, he did also seem to be aiming to kill as many people as he could. He was apparently stopped when he attempted to reload, meaning he was planning on continuing.