Top 3 Reasons "Persona 4: Mayonaka Arena" HURTS Me

Persona 4 is a JRPG title that's part of the Persona series, a spin-off series of the overall Shin Megami Tensei franchise. It's one of the most famous JRPGs to make it big internationally in recent years, getting enough good will and fandom to get a Vita remake, an entire animated series, a separately sold visual artwork book, dozens of merchandise, and now a fighting game. As far as games go, this is the major cash cow for the game dev/publisher Atlus. Whereas Persona 3, its predecessor, gained a lot of praise and good reviews, this is the title that's really been Atlus's golden egg.

The fighting game is called "Persona 4: The Ultimate in Mayonaka Arena" (which will be referred to as "Mayonaka Arena/Mayonaka" hence forth since that's stupidly long) and is being co-developed by Arc System Works, literally being worked on by the fine folks who bring us the fantastic fighting series "Blaz Blue". It takes place after the events of P4 and is about some tournament hosted by Teddy _{surrounded in rumors and} [size=10]_{fldjhfkshfk fhdjhf}[/h] --

EDIT: Turns out the game is just a fighting game that wants to have fun and not be serious. As Kaimax pointed out, even the titles they gave the characters are just for fun:

"-Yu : "The Steely Sister-Complex Banchō" (鋼のシスコン番長 Hagane no Shisukon Banchō)
-Yosuke : "Captain Resentiment" (キャプテン・ルサンチマン Kyaputen Rusanchiman)
-Chie : "The Carnivorous Beast Who Rejects Feminimity" (女を捨てた肉食獣 Onna o Suteta Nikushokujū)
-Yukiko :"The Impregnable Snow 'Black'" (難攻不落の「黒」雪姫 Nakōfuraku no "Kuro"yukihime)"

If they DO take it seriously, then refer back to reason 3, though with that kind of comedy gold I doubt they will. Reason 2 still stands, though.

...So, uh... I was wrong [size=2]unless they suddenly want us to take this seriously[/h]? Whatever. Not apologizing. No need. Just go pre-order the fun fighter and have a ball.


-- Look, if you want to know more go look it up. This here is a list of arguments about why this game's existence is confounding, irritating, and HURTS me, as it may hurt some of you as well. It's not meant to promote the game (which seems fairly interesting and may be a hell of a fighter once it comes out).



[size=15]Reasons This Game HURTS

1. Canonical Fucking[/h]
EDIT: I was a bit of a tit here. Completely forgot all the other instances P3 ties into P4's world.

I suppose you could always just ignore this horribly glaring flaw since, as a friend of mine said, "You know why they can exist in the same world? Because shut the fuck up and have fun already, damn it!"

[size=15]2. Ruining Role-Playing[/h]
Yu Narukami is the somewhat clever name Atlus or somebody in the writing department bestowed upon the protagonist of P4. This was done post "Seta Souji" (name given to him in the comic adaptation) in the well loved animated series because...well...we couldn't just have the characters refer to him as "Senpai" and "Leader" for an entire series.

Let's be reasonable here: an animated series is far longer than a 50+ hr game. Even if it wasn't, you still have the problem of moving the story into a medium that, for today's audience, demands names from everyone.
-Unless you're a villain. Then we can just call you "Masked Guy" or something.
Consequently, I have no idea how long the anime is. I like the English cast and my interpretation of the game too much to watch it, but I hear it fantastic.

Anyway, it's only fair he was given this name and for the most part it fits. However, what was a competent decision for a show becomes a horrendous misstep for a game. The protagonists of the SMT franchise are rarely named, and when they are it's only because they will be mentioned again in a later installment, and even then they aren't really named but given plucky nicknames like "Immortal Prisoner" or "Demi-Fiend".
The first got his for being cursed with true immortality after defying a totalitarian god and the second was the prophesied reshaper of the world who bathed in deicide.

The only named protagonists in the Persona series are the two in the interlocking Persona 2 games, and that's only because they were peripheral characters in each installment (though even then the games let you rename the protagonists if you wanted, they just had the empty slots filled with names you'd have to erase first). I mean, the writers clearly couldn't just let you rename any of the other main characters in the cast, could they?

Side Note: In Nocturne, gamers were allowed to rename the other main characters in the cast, including the protagonist, the love interest, and the two best friends.

The point is that when you take the name given to the animated character and give it to the videogame one, you are also bringing along all of the traits and events tied to that name and applying it to the canon. Yes, the protagonist for P4 was inherently charismatic to some degree, much as P2's protagonist was inherently rowdy and P3's protagonist was inherently...uh...solemn? Secluded?
What word springs to mind when you look at him?


However, though each protagonist has some inherent trait, they are mostly blank slates for the gamer to fill in. P4's protagonist can be just as much of a heartwarming hero as a mean, teasing git. There's also the points of character preference (Kanji was really my best mate, whereas I always felt Yosuke desperately wanted to be my buddy so bad he was partially my mouth piece), chosen love interest, etc.

When you bring in the name given to the anime's interpretation of the protagonist, you also override our interpretation of him, as well as effectively make our vision of not just the protagonist, but the entirety of Persona 4, well, non-canon.
And THAT is ruining Role-playing.

Just call the guy "Protagonist" or let us name the guy. It's not like the cast needs to call him anything different than they did in P4. "Senpai" and "Leader" still apply, even if it's more on friendly nickname terms now.

[size=15]3. Nonsense[/h]
There is absolutely no sense here. Disregarding the fact that the world on the other side of the TV was supposed to have been fixed up (or at least a large portion of it, the portion imitating Inaba) and that the grand master behind it all has been obliterated (rather thoroughly I might add), there's absolutely no way the cast of P4 would ever, under any circumstances, fight one another.

The cast of P3:FES? Sure, I guess. They were a bunch of hormonally-crazed emotional train wrecks to begin with.
-Though might I add just how far they had to jump the shark with certain characters to get them to go along with that stupid fighting tournament. Mitsuru's reason for fighting was especially mind-boggling.

The cast of P4? Are you kidding me? Just LOOK at them! They're so in-sync they're practically connected at the hip (and as far as my protagonist and Naoto go in my playthrough, that's pretty accurate)!
These aren't friends, this is a surrogate family, and the game never leads you to believe otherwise. Yosuke doesn't throw a jealous fit because he's not the big hero. Kanji doesn't seclude himself in the corner and brood, only responding to you in hard glares. You really get the feeling that the friendship these characters share will last until the day they die, and nothing will ever take that from them.

And now they're fighting.
...The fuck?

Look, there's a number of reasons you can come up with to say why they are fighting, and to each one I say: Look at the ending of P4. Tell me if you really believe what you're peddling as possible fact. Can you really see Chie kicking Yukiko for any conceivable reason? Does the vision of Naoto shooting at Kanji really sit evenly with you? Can you seriously be alright with Teddy hitting fucking ANYBODY?

The answer is: of course not. However, this could work between the P3 cast and the P4 cast, right? I mean, Akihiko doesn't know Kanji at all! Who the hell is Naoto to Mitsuru, or visa versa?
Now think back on those characters as well and tell me if they would fight anybody without first talking to them, maybe settling on a sort of plan against the common enemy trying to get them to fight to the death.
Again, the answer is the same as before.

This is all incredibly out of character, so much so that you can only chalk it up to mass mind control or that they'd all be pulling punches in each bout just to get to the bottom of this mystery tournament. The latter would be stupid since it'd be easier, safer, and smarter to work together from the start. The former, though conceivable, would be stupid for a different reason. Why? We want to play as our favorite characters, not as our favorite characters with brain slugs on them.

The whole thing is just nonsense.

In conclusion, you can have a blast with the game if you like since it's shaping up to be said blast, but I can't even look at this thing without gritting my teeth in metaphorical pain. The idea that this is supposed to be canon is very annoying, but as Metroid: Other M showed us, "official canon" isn't everything it's made up to be.

As a longtime SMT fan, however, this is one game I'll have to pass up if only to save myself from exploding at the sheer bewilderment and irritation it instills in me. Hope I made this long ass explanation an easier read.

is it me or is it every time time i see video game thread by you its just complaints

It's just your timing.

My Conception localization thread is a labor of love: https://www.fakku.net/viewtopic.php?t=82569

My Neverdead review: https://www.fakku.net/viewtopic.php?t=81259

It's in IB, but this is sort of videogame related, a Saber Red joke thread:
https://www.fakku.net/viewtopic.php?t=84282

The point of a fighting game is the actual fighting. How deep the mechanics are, how the controls are, whatever. I'm not one of those people that plays fighters for story, but if it's good then I won't complain.

Actually, P4 and P3 are in the same reality. That's why P4 team actually went to the school where the group of P3 studied. They even met one of the girls whom the protagonist had possible relations with. They're not only in the same 'time' so to speak but they live the same reality. Yukiko also appeared in P3P, physically. They're not just connected by cameo characters but they're in the same world. And I disagree about 'not having two ultimate bosses'. If you've read some Marvel comics they've done this blatantly where Zeus exists along with Odin, Lucifer along with Mephisto, Hades along with Mikaboshi the Japanese god of the underworld there's no reason why Persona can't do the same.

I read this as "blah blah blah thinks I don't like this game". ...okay, so it doesn't meld with the previous games in the series. Just ignore it, man. It kinda reminds me of the complaints over Metal Gear Solid Rising. This weird idea that you can "fuck up" a well-loved game with an INDIRECT SEQUEL. If it was actually Persona 5 and they pulled this kind of continuity-ruining bullshit I'd properly understand the anger but... I just don't see it. It's like being mad over Mario Kart 64 for existing in the same universe as Super Mario 64.

I actually put that out of my mind.
...Shit.


She did? How the fuck-?


Well, while I could just bring up the fact that no one directly from the main cast of P3 was in P4, making the school trip nothing more than a simple reference and not a direct link, that Yukiko thing ruins such a theory.

I guess they've been trying to make P4 and P3 actually a part of the same reality for a while now.
...Damn it! It's just so stupid, though! Not only does it go against the rules of the franchise that the last main title clearly laid out, but it also means that the Greek pantheon is meant to coexist with the Japanese pantheon, and that's just mindfucking to no end!

Who created the world? Who's the head god? In each pantheon there can only be one head god, a god of gods. There's also only supposed to be one massive opposition to said god, his antithesis.

It's why in the SMT universe other gods are called other things, most often just being listed as special "demons". In Persona they're...well...called personas. It's like that because the focus of the story is meant to hinge on only one reigning pantheon. Persona 2 did this just fine. Persona 3 did it just fine as well. Now with P4's success it seems they want to fuck up the continuity and over-arcing theme of the franchise.



There is. For one, Persona is part of a franchise that's much smarter than Marvel comics. The second is what I wrote above. It breaks established rules of the franchise and confuses the laws of the new Persona reality.

If you want to have fun with it, then good on you. I've just been with SMT far too long to not be a bit upset at this. Not too much, but a bit.




Actually it's more "blah blah blah long time Shin megami Tensei fan can't get over the hurtles this tie-in throws at him". Close, though.


It's not like that at all, actually, since Mario was never a franchise known for sociological studies into human psychology and commentary on religion as a whole. Mario was never clever, introspective, and could never be brought up to make the basis for an A+ essay in Philosophy.
...Or Psychology. I forget which. It was years ago.

Point is SMT is far from any other kind of franchise out there, so you really can't compare getting mad about continuity fucking in it as compared to continuity fucking in most other franchises. MGS is a better example than flipping Mario.
-Though fans of MGS aren't angry "Rising" is a sequel because of "official canon", they're angry about the total anal raping Raiden's character is getting and how pleased Kojima seems with himself.

You have a point. "Ignore it if it bothers you since, hey, it's not like they did it in a JRPG, which is what the franchise's games are, and it's not like this will be Persona 5."

I agree, and will, but you also need to realize what I did just earlier in this post. Apparently Atlus has been trying to make this confusion a single reality with hard nudges to P3 and P4 for a while now. I don't care much for "official canon", and it isn't actually a JRPG so I'm not too upset, but with someone who goes so far as to name himself "MegaTenLove" you have to understand how long I've been with this series. Seeing an SMT tie-in and references even in the RPGs to an idea that screws with the established rules of the series as well as makes no sense is painful to me on some level.

I'm not going to be crying over this, nor am I going to bitch about the game once it comes out. Despite the bastardized rules and nonsense of the characters fighting, it looks pretty fun. The art's fantastic and the gameplay looks interesting. It's no where near as offensive as Rising, and who knows? Maybe in the future I'll...
...No, screw that. I'm not buying this.

Anyway, I'm not going to picket against it or even truly hate it like ME3. But this game does so much wrong and with the inclusion of the "Yu Narukami" name it ruins quite a lot more than you think, even more than just the mindfuck of the SMT rules does.
There will always be a part of me
_Deep
[size=10]_{Deep down}[/h]
[size=5]_{That will want to punch this game.}[/h]

Well as long i know the P3 and P4 exist in the same reality, and no i am not basing only on what Margaret say about Elizabeth in P4, there other things that i think connect both.
There a few a remember:

1)When the P4 protagonists go to Gekkoukan High and they met Chihiro(P3) she gave a welcoming speech, later she turn a litte nervous because she forget give to all Yasoinaba students the schedule, then she gave it to the protagonist and he tell her: Don't worry/ You're doing a great job. Who she responds saying barely doing the thing right and that she didn't even write the speech herself that a former student council president (from she's first year) help her, and that she always looked up to her. I think she was talking about Mitsuru.

2) When they are in Tatsumi Port Island's Club (The time they get "drunk") Rise mentions that two years ago she had a secret show (in that same club) the power went out in the middle of the performance. That's a reference to the first Full Moon Operation in September 2009, also Shinjiro mentioned the power incident before battle with the shadow.
And... that's all i can remenber right now =/

Respect to the Persona 2 thing (the MMORPG right? if i am not wrong it is called Inoccent Sin Online) maybe you alredy know but in the original japanese version it don't do a reference to Persona 2, instead it do a reference to Digital Devil Monogatari: Megami Tensei (The light novel Atlus based to create the SMT saga)and is named Devil Busters Online , the name the P3 protagonist use in the MMORPG is N-Jima, reference to Akemi Nakajima(DDM protagonist) and Maya name is Y-KO, refering to Yumiko Shirasagi(DDM heroine).

The only real connection i know between P3 and P2(also the original Persona) is the T.V. show Who's Who', where the hostess (Trish) give little biographies about characters of Persona and P2. Tatsuya for example, Trish described him as "Smoking Hot" and in his 20's. And that him intends becoming a policeman like his brother.

About the "multiple realities" and the "Amala Universe" , i can't say nothing about it since i understand your point.

I don't think so about the "Mythology reigns"; why it can't be?
I you take that in consideration that the complete SMT saga would be impossible; since it already mix components of various different religions, mythology's, legends, etc.
In the first SMT you can fight Satan, Bishamonten, Nebiros and even turn your dog in to Cerberus.
Well... i think you'er right about the two ultimate evils... I mean Izanami really just leave Nyx do what she want and destroy the world? or she wasn't enough powerful to stop she be herself?
And as long i know Izanagi and Izanami only create the Japanese archipelago.
So i don't know what make Nyx had something to do with Izanami.

I agreed with the "Ruining Role-Playing", is really that necesary to the P4 protagonist to have a predetermined name? I don't like he been named Yu Narukami, it ins't a bad name but... i got accustomed to the name i give him in the original game...

About the nonsense
The P3 cast... i like them being playable character but like you said, i don't find any real reason for them to be in Inaba, the tournament... But why? What it has to do with them? More Persona user's? Is that?
Well i know about Labrys has something to do with the Kirijo group but... Is that all? They go to search her beacause she escape or something?
And the P4 cast.. like you say, Why are they fighting? It won't be easy only do ignore the tournament thing and only find Teddie?
Well thats all i can say.

P.s. Sorry for the bad english, i can read it but i suck writing it. =/

I'm gonna honest here, You're starting to take this WAY too seriously and is starting to sound like an angry fanboy.
You're honestly nitpicking things that isn't worth nitpicking.

I'm not gonna comment on the first reason, but the second and the third reasons.. facepalm...

2nd: How is Souji Seta "the right name" And what makes it more "special" than Yu Narukami?

3rd: IT's a fucking fighting game, IT's not about "morality" or character personality that they won't fight. This game was aimed at those who likes fighting games and Persona 4 (or 3). For them, the thought of a fighting game with their favorite characters is what the developers is targeting. People will always imagine what will happen if Yu fights againts Yosuke or Yukiko against Mitsuru, and This game is the answer.

Look at Marvel vs Capcom, You have Captain America, Ironman, Thor, Hulk and Hawkeye. All of them are part of the Avengers, but do you think it's actually Fun by making the characters cannot fight each other because they belong in a group in a fighting game?

You're basically party-pooping this game because you're connecting it too much to the original source RPG.
Fighting games is always about fighting first, stories and reasons is a something to be enjoyed as a side dish.

It's clear from the start that this is just for pure fighting fun. Look at the titles that they give to the characters.
-Yu : "The Steely Sister-Complex Banchō" (鋼のシスコン番長 Hagane no Shisukon Banchō)
-Yosuke : "Captain Resentiment" (キャプテン・ルサンチマン Kyaputen Rusanchiman)
-Chie : "The Carnivorous Beast Who Rejects Feminimity" (女を捨てた肉食獣 Onna o Suteta Nikushokujū)
-Yukiko :"The Impregnable Snow 'Black'" (難攻不落の「黒」雪姫 Nakōfuraku no "Kuro"yukihime)
etc

lol and i bet you still go out and buy it,this is the trick they are not out to impress the fans, the fans are gonna complain no matter what and the fans are gonna BUY it no matter what, they are out to get those new to the game who may have never picked up a persona game. the ones who were (like me) sort of interested but because of not wanting to invest time and jump into a series thats already years old bypassed it, consumers like that will be like "oh a fighting game i could get into that" and BINGO new fans to the series.

Except they do. Nothing like ignoring the facts that we have known since P4 was originally announced.

Additionally, P4:Arena won't have a proper Story Mode until the console release. So save your bitching until then.

That's a shame, since a few repliers have actually made my first opinion rather moot (still think having two different pantheons exist in the same world like that is fucking stupid, but everything else...
Yeah, I forgot a lot of stuff.



Wait, the fuck? Time out, mate. When did I say that? I just mentioned that the manga has the same Souji Seta, NOT that it was "the right name". Hell, I even said Yu Narukami was kinda clever, fit nicely, and was a good decision for the animation.

My point was that no matter what name an adaptation gives him, NO game should give him a name from an adaptation. It ends up overruling gamers' perspective on his character and unintentionally making the adaptation feel more "canon" than the game. It's just what happens and why it shouldn't be done, since Seta Narukami is first and foremost a mostly blank slate SMT JRPG protagonist. Giving gamers the option to name him in the fighting game or just calling him "Leader" would've been better for a number of reasons.

Reread what I said if you want to. You'll find I'm not being a fanboy, but rather a guy who knows the ramifications of letting an adaptation have too much influence.



Yeah, I get that. I know all the tropes of a fighting game and to just have fun with it. As I said, I'm just speaking in terms of the story and just as a guy who's very into SMT lore and all the SMT characters.

If the game wanted to just take the piss and have a blast then fine, but this is said to be a story that's "canon", meaning it'll be much more serious than just a fighting game.
I'm not whining and throwing a tantrum, I'm complaining and giving reasons. I said I can't get past such an idea to have fun with it.

You can? Good! Have fun! The game looks like it'll be great fun for a fighter and is being made by a team who makes MY favorite fighting games EVER (BB). But when you stick those characters into such a situation and expect me to take it seriously, I can't get into it at all because it makes no sense.
_Also, never got into Marvel VS Capcom.



Never pooped on the party. Ever. Just laid out my reasons for not getting into the game at all. Pooping would be if I said the game sucks.

It clearly doesn't suck, and as much as it "hurts" me story-wise, I still find the mechanics, art, and gameplay interesting enough to semi-promote it. Fuck dude, I even said it looked like a good fighter in this very post! I said numerous times for those who can get into it to have a lot of fun with it! Who's shitting here? I'm not.
Now if you want to see me shit on something, see me go apeshit over the character assassination in Metal Gear Rising. But as justified as that is, it's not half as nice as this.
Also, I'd appreciate it if you didn't want to see me shit on something at all. That's voyerism, and it's creepy.
...Unless you give me ten bucks. I need the money.



...


...Well FUCK!

I can't read Japanese, damn it! Every article I read on this game goes on and on about either how smooth the gameplay is or ponders on the story. If they fucking said all that then I would've seen this wasn't going to be as intricate and serious as the Blaz Blue narrative and WAS going to just be fighting game fun!


...Fuck, now I'm angry and embarrassed. More angry than embarrassed, though I am blushing. Furiously. In a rage. A blushy rage.


Well, that-uh... That perspective from the game changes things. If the game really isn't going to take itself seriously, then I won't either. No reason to get irritated by a game that just wants to have fun. If it DID take itself seriously, then my case for the "This is Nonsense" bit is relevant. Otherwise the only thing I'll remant adamantly against is protag name bit, though that's hardly enough to stop me or any other fan from enjoying a game that just wants to enjoy a good time.

You could've just opened with this to begin with, Kaimax. You know I'm an avid fan but not a fanboy. Could've saved me a lot of trouble, mate.

+rep for turning me on my head.



No worries, AsuraShinra, you did well enough explaining. You made very good points and I edited my post to reflect them.

Kaimax (above) showed me proof the game is really just meant to be a bit o fun and not taken seriously, so there's not much reason to think about why the characters are fighting.

Fighting game that want to be taken seriously need to be taken seriously. Fighting games that just want to have fun and be crazy are just fun and we don't need to think too hard over it.

Wish I knew this sooner. Haha~