"Let me give you some advice, Captain."
0
"Yes, Sir?"
"It may help you make some sense of the world."
"Sir"
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people," Said the man. "You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides."
He waved his thin hand toward the city and walked over to the window.
"A great rolling sea of evil," he said, almost proprietorially. "Shallower in some places, of course, but deeper, oh, so much deeper in others. But people like you put together little rafts of rules and vaguely good intentions and say, this is the opposite, this will triumph in the end. Amazing!" He slapped Vimes good-naturedly on the back.
"Down there," he said, "are people who will follow any dragon, worship any god, ignore any iniquity. All out of a kind of humdrum, everyday badness. Not the really high, creative loathsomeness of the great sinners, but a sort of mass-produced darkness of the soul. Sin, you might say, without a trace of originality. They accept evil not because they say yes, but because they don't say no. I'm sorry if this offends you," he added, patting the captain's shoulder, "but you fellows really need us."
"Yes, sir?" said Vimes quietly.
"Oh, yes. We're the only ones who know how to make things work. You see, the only thing the good people are good at is overthrowing the bad people. And you're good at that, I'll grant you. But the trouble is that it's the only thing you're good at. One day it's the ringing of the bells and the casting down of the evil tyrant, and the next it's everyone sitting around complaining that ever since the tyrant was overthrown, no one's been taking out the trash. Because the bad people know how to plan. It's part of the specification, you might say. Every evil tyrant has a plan to rule the world. The good people don't seem to have the knack."
"Maybe. But you're wrong about the rest!" said Vimes. "It's just because people are afraid, and alone---" He paused. It sounded pretty hollow, even to him. He shrugged. "They're just people," he said. "They're just doing what people do. Sir."
Lord Vetinari gave him a friendly smile.
"Of course, of course," he said. You have to believe that, I appreciate. Otherwise you'd go quite mad. Otherwise you'd think you're standing on a feather-thin bridge over the vaults of hell. Otherwise existence would be a dark agony and the only hope would be that there is no life after death. I quite understand." He looked at his desk, and sighed. "And now," he said, "there is such a lot to do. I'm afraid poor Wonse was a good servant but an inefficient master. So you may go. Have a good night's sleep. Oh, and do bring your men in tomorrow. The city must show its gratitude."
"It must what?" said Vimes.
The Patrician looked at a scroll. Already his voice was back to the distant tones of one who organizes and plans and controls.
"Its gratitude," he said. "After every triumphant victory there must be heroes. It is essential. Then everyone will know that everything has been done properly."
He glanced at Vimes over the top of the scroll.
"It's all part of the natural order of things," he said.
After a while he made a few pencil annotations to the paper in front of him and looked up.
"I said," he said, "that you may go."
Vimes paused at the door.
"Do you believe all that, sir?" he said. "About the endless evil and the sheer blackness?"
"Indeed, indeed," said the Patrician, turning over the page. "It is the only logical conclusion."
"But you get out of bed every morning, sir?"
"Hmm? Yes? What is your point?"
"I'd just like to know why, sir."
"Oh, do go away, Vimes. There's a good fellow."
Above is an excerpt from Terry Pratchett's novel "Guards! Guards!".
Discuss it of you like, I just think it should be read.
"It may help you make some sense of the world."
"Sir"
"I believe you find life such a problem because you think there are the good people and the bad people," Said the man. "You're wrong, of course. There are, always and only, the bad people, but some of them are on opposite sides."
He waved his thin hand toward the city and walked over to the window.
"A great rolling sea of evil," he said, almost proprietorially. "Shallower in some places, of course, but deeper, oh, so much deeper in others. But people like you put together little rafts of rules and vaguely good intentions and say, this is the opposite, this will triumph in the end. Amazing!" He slapped Vimes good-naturedly on the back.
"Down there," he said, "are people who will follow any dragon, worship any god, ignore any iniquity. All out of a kind of humdrum, everyday badness. Not the really high, creative loathsomeness of the great sinners, but a sort of mass-produced darkness of the soul. Sin, you might say, without a trace of originality. They accept evil not because they say yes, but because they don't say no. I'm sorry if this offends you," he added, patting the captain's shoulder, "but you fellows really need us."
"Yes, sir?" said Vimes quietly.
"Oh, yes. We're the only ones who know how to make things work. You see, the only thing the good people are good at is overthrowing the bad people. And you're good at that, I'll grant you. But the trouble is that it's the only thing you're good at. One day it's the ringing of the bells and the casting down of the evil tyrant, and the next it's everyone sitting around complaining that ever since the tyrant was overthrown, no one's been taking out the trash. Because the bad people know how to plan. It's part of the specification, you might say. Every evil tyrant has a plan to rule the world. The good people don't seem to have the knack."
"Maybe. But you're wrong about the rest!" said Vimes. "It's just because people are afraid, and alone---" He paused. It sounded pretty hollow, even to him. He shrugged. "They're just people," he said. "They're just doing what people do. Sir."
Lord Vetinari gave him a friendly smile.
"Of course, of course," he said. You have to believe that, I appreciate. Otherwise you'd go quite mad. Otherwise you'd think you're standing on a feather-thin bridge over the vaults of hell. Otherwise existence would be a dark agony and the only hope would be that there is no life after death. I quite understand." He looked at his desk, and sighed. "And now," he said, "there is such a lot to do. I'm afraid poor Wonse was a good servant but an inefficient master. So you may go. Have a good night's sleep. Oh, and do bring your men in tomorrow. The city must show its gratitude."
"It must what?" said Vimes.
The Patrician looked at a scroll. Already his voice was back to the distant tones of one who organizes and plans and controls.
"Its gratitude," he said. "After every triumphant victory there must be heroes. It is essential. Then everyone will know that everything has been done properly."
He glanced at Vimes over the top of the scroll.
"It's all part of the natural order of things," he said.
After a while he made a few pencil annotations to the paper in front of him and looked up.
"I said," he said, "that you may go."
Vimes paused at the door.
"Do you believe all that, sir?" he said. "About the endless evil and the sheer blackness?"
"Indeed, indeed," said the Patrician, turning over the page. "It is the only logical conclusion."
"But you get out of bed every morning, sir?"
"Hmm? Yes? What is your point?"
"I'd just like to know why, sir."
"Oh, do go away, Vimes. There's a good fellow."
Above is an excerpt from Terry Pratchett's novel "Guards! Guards!".
Discuss it of you like, I just think it should be read.
0
That sounds like a good read. I'll be on the lookout for that novel. But what I want to know is what Vimes asked the Patrician. Why does he get up in the morning believing that everyone is evil and all that other stuff? It's such a bleak way of thinking. There's no hope at all. Maybe I'll understand more when I read it.
0
Takerial
Lovable Teddy Bear
As interesting as Terry Pratchett is, I don't see why this was placed in Serious Discussion. You didn't really give a proper topic of discussion other than "This is interesting, read it."
As it stands this is currently just a thread on discussing a certain excerpt from a novel, not a thread of serious discussion. Maybe if you want to clarify a topic that is worthy of being seriously discussed.
Things like.
"This excerpt makes a very good point in that there are only bad people in this world..."
Or
"Do you feel that rules and regulations are only created by people to make themselves feel like they are good and others are bad?"
Topics like that would merit a serious discussion. If you are wanting to discuss a novel then this isn't the proper forum for it.
As it stands this is currently just a thread on discussing a certain excerpt from a novel, not a thread of serious discussion. Maybe if you want to clarify a topic that is worthy of being seriously discussed.
Things like.
"This excerpt makes a very good point in that there are only bad people in this world..."
Or
"Do you feel that rules and regulations are only created by people to make themselves feel like they are good and others are bad?"
Topics like that would merit a serious discussion. If you are wanting to discuss a novel then this isn't the proper forum for it.
0
I like Pratchett as much as the next guy, but well, this is not really SD material, and it would have been a better read if he didn't contradict himself in it.
0
The excerpt provides a rather extreme and cynical view of the world and humanity. I assumed a discussion would arise from that, but no, it would appear it has not. Either way, I put this in SD because it was a serious topic on cynicism, and I felt that if one would discuss something or somethings from the excerpt, why would I limit it by providing a singular focus?
Either way, move the thread or discuss it.
Either way, move the thread or discuss it.
