Reasons Why This Piece Is No Good, Compiled by high_time and leonard267
high_time:
it's not about the length you see. I've read through all of those and enjoyed it, but I can't say I've thoroughly read it. I just read the parts that were understandable. still, there's many parts where I'm completely lost to what's going on.
particularly this usage of language isn't something of my preference. it just kinda sounds too formal and rigid to me, and I don't have that much of an expertise in reading to make up an understanding of this. at some points I can't even distinguish the parts you want to deem as important or the parts you want to stress out. most of time it's just me.
and don't get me started on the actual story and content stuff, I'm very cruel and unfair when it comes to this. really, the most thing I hate about writing is that I have to criticize people sometimes even though I can't really write any shit.
I think, if I were to write these kind of things, maybe it'll go along the
destruction of Rome by the barbarians and such. somewhat along the lines of a historical fiction. go get some few historical references from wikipedia and change it to adjust it to the story. maybe I can introduce Dave as a viking descendant, and Liz as a part of a nomad tribe known for its sexual prowess like the amazoness.
Dave being effeminate enough to pass out as a woman who pretends to be a man, and Liz, a woman with giant jugs and a large penis who masturbates every day. gave them a descriptions of ridiculous looking erotic apparel similar to cosplay, and give them the moe characteristics. every day they partake in a S&M relationship where Dave becomes the little girl and LIz as his mother.
due to the aftermath of Rome destruction by the barbarians, they go and set out to form the New City in the ruined place because they had ran out of places to have sex in public, and having sex both in the ruins and a new city in the same place would be good. because this story uses a hentai logic, they did not get pregnant even after having so much sex, particularly Dave, since he's a man, even though he's also a trap with thin, slender and prim body.
add some ridiculous absurdities and lots of obscene pornographic things and you get what I usually write. also add hermaphrodites, cross-dressing guys, tentacles and that would most likely offend many people in historical department, especially when someone wants to satirize their history and turning it into something made by a horny Japanese who reads too much and still can't even understand a single word.
later on I'll give the cliffhanger of Dave getting pregnant, and during the pregnancy he will form three titties, multiple genitals and a hymen-coated vagina. the adorable hermaphrodite kid, subject to be a violent masturbation fodder by pedophiles, lolicons, and many other people who are just looking for kinky fantasies. that's it when the kid grew up.
as the ending, Dave, the loli kid, and the mother would have lots of sex at one time, described in great length and detail on how pleasant an incest sexual intercourse between the hermaphrodite daughter, father, and mother. all of them being hermaphrodites of course. it goes to greatly offend the decency and prudishness of many people all around.
it will do a nice touch to end this by making the three of them commit suicide after that because the Author told them so. basically making the readers think 'what the fuck am I reading?'
or we could just go on with a cliched 'they lived happily ever after' the ruined city has now became a city filled with hermaphrodites and they had lots of happy sex - everybody was happy - the legacy continues on until the present. whenever you want to take the true path of a hermaphrodite, come and visit us anytime.
signed,
The Chieftain.
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yeah just like that.
as an alternative to making it the city filled with hermaphrodites, I'll probably try to write something like this one.
http://yuri-ism.com/2014/01/17/release-224-earth-girls-finale/
make the girls had lots of sex and they would give birth to a child by laying eggs after having kinky girl-on-girl intercourse.
leonard267:
I will do a satirical parody of it if I have the time. I think it will take less effort.
If I had written it properly like a typical story with dialogue it could go to over 10000 words with me explaining what had happened in detail like the resentment among rank and file David felt when he was promoted to an officer of high rank.
I think just about every part of story is important. What I had done to show who David and Elizabeth are, what they had done in the years leading up to the successful capture of the Ruined City and how they feel about each other and the motivation behind what they did.
I believe the most important part ought to be the last time David met Elizabeth in a quarrel. David and Elizabeth's exploits in the military, the first marriage proposal can be left out.
That said, can you give me examples from what I have written that you did not understand? I suspect it was how the Ruined City would be taken. That style of writing I think was subconsciously taken from the Lord of the Rings appendices and journalist articles. Almost little to no dialogue at all.
Do ignore the part about me writing it properly. I realised some problems I had with my own writing namely my failure to make myself relate to these characters because I am writing in third person with little dialogue and you will not believe it, I felt that my story felt too general and not detailed enough.
As for your criticism, there are very good pieces of work that I disliked like Edgar Allan Poe's work which gave little mention of what is happening instead choosing to focus on one's feelings and thoughts. If you could take an example from that article and indicate that it made little sense to you, I would be glad.
high_time:
okay, let me go on with d's style of reviewing.
probably you want to shorten the sentences and using simpler words. using less commas and using less relative pronouns like 'who', 'whom', 'which', 'whose' could also make it easier to understand.
well it also depends on how you use the relative pronoun.
David's destination was long ago a gleaming metropolis and a great centre of trade and commerce that was regrettably brought to its knees by being one of the first victims of a long, bloody and devastating civil war.
probably a bit too long of a sentence.
"David's destination was once a gleaming metropolis. A great centre of trade and commerce. It was brought down during a long, bloody, and devastating civil war."
That city fell into the clutches of many a warlord who lost hold as soon as they gained control with another round of plunder, pillage and rape for each change of hands.
"The city fell into the clutches of many different warlords. Plunder, pillage and rape goes for each changing power."
the rest, well, you'd probably got the idea to make it much shorter and less infodumps.
After many self-styled conquerors foisted their names onto that city in a display of disgusting egocentricity, the city was given that awful moniker, The Ruined City, by the man on the street to avoid confusion among her many names and perhaps to dissociate it from what it once was.
could be worded in much simpler words.
"Many conquerors had arrogantly stomped upon the city, plasting their names and continue on ruining it. That's how the Ruined City moniker originates. It was given by some dirty peasant to avoid confusion. Names so much to remember, so they decided to stick to that instead."
By the time the city fell under the control of David's family, the Ruined City was no more than a collection of ugly monoliths made of bones of steel, bodies of concrete and skins of glass. It must have struck those who took as much as a glance at the city to realise the destruction that terrible war wrought on life, property and much more. Indeed, it made those whose hearts were not hardened by the war feel as if their victory was a Pyrrhic and a hollow one.
"When David's family came to power, the Ruined City was merely a collection of ugly steel monoliths, concrete bodies, and skins of glasses. Must be a shock when they had realized the terrible aftermath of war to this place. Even the victory felt as much as empty. Nothing good ever came from destruction."
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that's how I word it. you probably can figure out the rest.
again, this is merely my personal preference. I find things easier to understand this way.
I'm sorry to be such an ass, but that's what I thought =/
leonard267:
I see. I thought what I have written is easy to understand. Thank goodness I am not writing a memorandum.
It was not my intention to show off when I write in this style but rather to set the tone of the story. This is a very grim affair from the point of view of a very grim aristocrat. The difficulty I had is to make sure each sentence sounds proper. If the story did not read well, it would sound like a McGonagall poem.
If you have read through the long articles in that journalist's blog I have shown you, you might realise that he is more verbose than me! Verbosity has always been my style of writing.
high_time:
I actually had understood your previous writings. probably because it's a generally narrative writing and I have trouble imagining descriptive things. your previous ones are monologues and it has about one or few things to tell so I can easily get a gist to what's going on.
either way, I think it's not really about the verbosity. I think, what it has in the Detroit article that made me understood, is the Author managed to convince me to read on because he has something a say. his political views and such for example. he had a certain point to tell rather than just merely describing things.
apart from the writing format and such, I might want to ask you stuff: what was the point of the story? why we must care about the meetings between David and Elizabeth? why must we kept read on and on about the details of things that were completely alien to us? what was the message the Author want to convey that were actually important for us?
no, not about the satirizing things. because when we want to satirize, we tend to exaggerate something, probably in a humorous manner. this writing doesn't get the same vibe as your usual satiric tones.
I probably complained about writing because I can't exactly get my finger about it and firstly got to the most visible problem.
you probably had said it once in xnine's thread about making readers care about what's going on. though, if you're going to mainly focus on the writings and the happenings along without focusing on the main essence, we probably had differences on thinking about things - not really your fault - it's just merely the differing preference.
compare your previous monologues that I find easy to understand and this one along with your attempt on creating a historical fiction. you probably see what I meant. or you can try reading Associate's winter entry that you liked.
either way, it's just my biased opinion. probably there's a point but I truly failed to spot the details right away. still, I can say that it's a well-written piece, and a lot of effort has been put to pen it down.
though I can also say, that I skipped the detailed descriptions while reading many stories out there, and mainly focus on the general idea as I could just try to imagine the rest as I want it to be. if I find something hard to read, I won't truly bother hurting my brain just to comprehend what's written. you can say that my opinion is unacceptable in the literary community, but that's fine.
what matters is that other people enjoy your works and my opinion doesn't mean anything much. don't let it get to you and just write the way you wanted - even if it's just to get things done.
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damn, now I sound really rude and bigoted. I truly regret myself saying that.
leonard267:
damn, now I sound really rude and bigoted. I truly regret myself saying that.[/quote]
high, one ill turn deserves another. I know you have apologised but I am not going to let this pass because there are parts of your criticism that I cannot accept.
he had a certain point to tell rather than just merely describing things.
apart from the writing format and such, I might want to ask you stuff: what was the point of the story?
why must we kept read on and on about the details of things that were completely alien to us?
Man is in place. Who is this man? What is this place? Man is looking for woman. Who is this woman? Why is that woman so important? Where is this place and who is this man are addressed in the first four paragraphs. Who is that woman is addressed in the fifth paragraph onwards. It is made very clear. xnine's entry did not mention the woman Peter was looking for which was the very important in making the reader care. I attempt to address it here.
I can only imagine that you did not care about David even though it is plain that he is looking for someone very important and there are many, many paragraphs that are not just mere descriptions on why the woman mattered.
that I skipped the detailed descriptions
The only paragraphs that were purely description were about the Ruined City and the sanctuary within it. What you called mere description contained reasons why you should care.
I can accept that the verbosity of the language made it hard to figure it out what David's motivations are, established very early in the story. I will not accept that I am merely describing events that passed unless you give me a concrete example from what I have written.
if I find something hard to read, I won't truly bother hurting my brain just to comprehend what's written.
Well, this goes back to the problem that it is too verbose isn't it?
if you're going to mainly focus on the writings and the happenings along without focusing on the main essence.
What do you mean by essence?! Can you simply state that you would like the story to indicate why I should care about David?
I will say again that I accept that it is too verbose but will not accept that it is mere description unless evidence that indicates otherwise is provided.
damn, now I sound really rude and bigoted. I truly regret myself saying that.
You can try editing the parts you think you found offensive.
Keep it coming. Arguing and quarreling about a piece of writing is very invigorating. I think the real problem is that the font is too small or the fact that the journalist was writing in first person. I see little difference between the style of the journalist's articles and mine. He went through a lot of the history of Detroit and why it mattered.
high_time:
I don't like to argue, and I find it to be pretty much pointless, but let me rephrase myself. I do find my criticisms to be quite unfair given that I cannot really appreciate this kind of writing.
I have talked to you about this through PM many times already, so you probably would know it much better than anyone else.
It is made very clear.
I have written in the previous posts that it's not clear enough for me to understand.
it's also not that easy to read for me so I merely just skipped things. you know how raged and hurt I am the last time I tried to do a comprehensive reading of complex writings.
I can only imagine that you did not care about David even though it is plain that he is looking for someone very important and there are many, many paragraphs that are not just mere descriptions on why the woman mattered.
again, I have told about my selfish preferences when it comes to writing.
The only paragraphs that were purely description were about the Ruined City and the sanctuary within it. What you called mere description contained reasons why you should care.
I can accept that the verbosity of the language made it hard to figure it out what David's motivations are, established very early in the story. I will not accept that I am merely describing events that passed unless you give me a concrete example from what I have written.
refer to the above reply and the above.
Well, this goes back to the problem that it is too verbose isn't it?
exactly.
What do you mean by essence?! Can you simply state that you would like the story to indicate why I should care about David?
I will say again that I accept that it is too verbose but will not accept that it is mere description unless evidence that indicates otherwise is provided.
the main point besides the story.
I'll give one example about Norwegian Wood who deals with utter nihilism and the lack of willingness to live.
I take it as a romance story between a man and woman and how they go through hardships together. so maybe it's just me not reading through things enough.
You can try editing the parts you think you found offensive.
Keep it coming. Arguing and quarreling about a piece of writing is very invigorating. I think the real problem is that the font is too small or the fact that the journalist was writing in first person. I see little difference between the style of the journalist's articles and mine. He went through a lot of the history of Detroit and why it mattered.
well, it just don't work anymore since you already read and quoted it right? =)
leonard267:
This is done out because I thought it fun.
high_time wrote...
I don't like to argue, and I find it to be pretty much pointless.
If we are on good terms, there is no problem arguing. It clarifies matters which is what I am going to demonstrate.
I have written in the previous posts that it's not clear enough for me to understand.
I wouldn't call it not clear. From what you have told me, you said that you could not understand what I was writing because of the complex sentence structures (which is always a hallmark of my writing, satirical or otherwise). I believe I have spent entire paragraphs introducing the characters and the city. If one understood those paragraphs, the contents of the story would be made clear.
I would say "too verbose to understand".
I tried to do a comprehensive reading of complex writings.
I wouldn't call this parody a complex story. It is simply why a man is looking for a woman. The only thing I agree that is complex are the sentence structures. This is done because it is told in the point of view of a grim aristocrat.
the main point besides the story.
I'll give one example about Norwegian Wood who deals with utter nihilism and the lack of willingness to live.
I take it as a romance story between a man and woman and how they go through hardships together. so maybe it's just me not reading through things enough.
The word you are looking for is "theme", I believe. The main point of the story is a man looking for a woman.
well, it just don't work anymore since you already read and quoted it right? =)
Of course, if you are going to write remarks that you will regret in the future, I believe the advice for you to edit your post will come in handy.