Honorifics in Translations

What do you think about honorifics being used in translations?

For those who don't know, honorifics are things added to names and such that describe what the person is. (Crappy definition, but I think everyone knows what I mean.) Examples include -san, -kun, -chan, -sama, etc.

Sometimes, I'll see people bitching about fansub groups leaving honorifics in. Personally, I love when the honorifics are left in because it helps me get a better understanding of the relationships of the characters. Also, it's weird to hear "Akira-san" and read "Mr. Akira." (It's really fucking weird to heard "Sensei" and read "Ms. Kitamura.") The American release of the Genshiken manga is my favorite American release for this reason; it includes honorifics and explains what they are at the end of each volume, and I gain a much better understanding of how the characters view one another. When one character refers to another with "-kun" instead of "-san," I immediately know that a bit of politeness, or stuffiness, is gone, and they are closer. And while I understand that some may consider this to be a bit weeaboo, those people can suck a dick. I prefer literal translations that get the full message across. Not out of a desire to be more Japanese than American, but a desire to tear down as many walls as possible and enjoy things as best I can. (Sorry, that sounds like preaching, but I do feel the need to defend myself on this issue.)

Anyways, what do you think? Would you prefer honorifics to be left untranslated ("Saki-chan" being simply "Saki")? Do you appreciate them when they are left in? Or do you think they should always be left in?

I also like having them included, as it points out how infrequently they don't use an honorific. There's a good reason to do so, and if you don't know, go look it up. Nice tidbit of info.

And I guess after watching/reading anime and manga for so long, I guess I got used to them being there.

I definitely prefer leaving honorifics in. As you said it helps identify how close people are related to each other. If one character refers to another as ...-kun, then I know they're friends or something close to it. It really helps keep the feeling of the manga similar to the original.

Not only that, but I prefer to have a little more japanese in the translations because it keeps it closer to the original. For example, I'd rather see ojou-sama than milady any day.

Leave them in. To those who don't want them, don't go for manga/anime. I'm against localization since we couldn't get the full message across.

Definitely leave it in. It makes reading a manga so much better because you can get a sense of how respected a person in. It just adds to the fun of reading a manga. English only has like Mr, Ms and Mrs. Boring. It really adds to the Japanese feel.

In and when faced with a choice between anime fansubs of similar quality this is what often determines my decision. Impolite, inaccurate and often irritating (goes for dubs as well even though I hardly ever watch them).

Pretty much agree with what you said, Shaggy.

You are reading something based off of Japanese culture. It just feels weird when that is taken away and replaced by the shitty alternative(English).

Couldn't care less if they have them or not.
You can normally tell the relationship between characters with how the act the honourifics dont define it.

I prefer them in. If english had an equal then sure, translate them. But there really isn't anything that matches up to it and when people try to translate them it just sounds awkward.

I really can't say more than what you all have already said.

Only thing that annoys me is when the voice says onii-chan and the sub has the dudes name.

If you're fully aware that "Ms. Kitamura" is this "Sensei" being spoken/referred to, then you can simply visualize it the way you want it interpreted; not that the subtitles actually matter all that much, in fact you can just very well turn it off. So long as you have the better understanding of what's what and/or who's who, I fail to see why we should even be talking about this. For a fact, it's not really that weird once you get used to it or you could say that it's all due to one's knowledge on the Japanese culture as a whole. Personally, I could care less about having it or not and to be honest, I rarely even notice them as I watch. It's just a normal occurrence when you've become awfully familiar with something.

I say just let the bitches bitch, that's what they do best anyway. They'll eventually get tired of it someday, hopefully (for their own sakes).

On a side note, I think the real concern here is that most viewers nowadays are taking such minor details as "side-characters' names" for granted and what happens is that they end up being ignorant of just about everything else. I think it's actually better, like the particular example you've provided, that the names should oftenly used instead of just Sensei/Teacher, Senpai, and others as such. In any case, I sure wouldn't mind either way. It's just another matter of one's own preference in the end, and aren't I glad that there's a bunch of people who even bothers on delivering the goods to us in a way that we all could comprehend.

Pretty much said what I was thinking.

Leave them out because your translating to english. We do not have those in English. A good translator should be able to convey the same meaning without the use of honorifics. Don't get me wrong tho, Thats a very hard thing to do so if the Translator doesn't want to put forth the effort then keep them. They also shouldn't be used for non Japanese settings shows. Like there's no need for them when your fighting in space but it's useful for a slice of life school setting.

Leave them out but translate the same meaning > Leave them in > Drop them with no explanation what so ever.

A little fun fact, Alot of the sub groups that are highly respected and alot of people enjoy more leave out honorifics where necessary. Most people don't notice that they left them out anyway. The group can later say we are dropping honorifics when they never had them and people will say "It's time to change group". While they still liked them without...

They need to be dropped and rendered differently.
This may be notoriously hard to do in modern English, with its different sense of politeness, but it is simply one of the requirements an able translator must meet.

A graceful, consistent English text is most important to me.

I don't mind if it's in or not.

It feels natural if they leave it it. Sometimes though, it says Onii-chan/san/sama/dono they translate it to Big Brother. It can get annoying to see that every sentence.

I think Viz tried to do that with One Piece. When Yasuko/whatever and Johnny were talking to Nami. They said Sister Nami. I thought they were religious but it's probably translation of Nami-nee. Somethings get screwed in translation.

I'm versed enough in anime and Japanese culture to be able to do without English subtitles indicating forms of respect. I do think that they should be left in its original form, and as you mentioned, ShaggyJebus, I think DelRey manga does an excellent job with translation, and they even include a glossary for more arcane or harder to define words at the end of each volume.

For those saying that the English equivalent should be found and honorifics dropped, I have to ask - how?

Like unsigned said, if a literal translation is done, it can sound weird, because in English, people don't say, "Sister Nami" or "Brother Luke." If someone does say that in English, it's really weird. Leaving out the "sister" or "brother" actually sounds better, but then nothing is resolved because the honorifics have simply been dropped instead of being translated.

Also, often in Japanese, the honorific "-san" will be used for classmates, people of the same age that know each other but aren't close friends. If translated literally, students will be calling each other "Mr. Satoshi" and "Ms. Kakuji." Of course, that's the same problem as above, with it sounded very odd in English. But how can you show in English that the students know each other but aren't close? Actions are important, but isn't speaking a certain way an act? An author may be using the honorifics to illustrate the relationships between the characters, instead of having them talk for five minutes. If that action is omitted, things may become unclear.

Let's say you have two characters, Akira and Tetsuo. They are friends, but Akira always says "Tetsuo-san." One day, something happens, and they get really close. Akira looks at him and says, "Tetsuo-kun." There has been a shift in their friendship, but no indication of it other than the change of honorific. How should that be translated into English? Should Akira go from saying "Mr. Tetsuo" to just "Tetsuo"?

The only problem is that leaving -san in can be stupid when you can just put "Mr" or "Mrs" in but then translating -san can seem almost pointless if you still leave -kun and -chan in. If someone says "Ikari-san" they are just saying "Mr Ikari" and so it's stupid to leave it untranslated but if someone says "Sanji-kun" there isn't really a proper translation of that. In One Piece it's relevant that Nami always uses -kun for Sanji but wouldn't use it for Zoro. Caimie puts -chin at the end of everyone's name; how do you translate that? -sama usually can be swapped for master or lord, but not always... So you can end up in a situation where you're translating half of the honorifics but leaving half in Japanese.

The only definite rule for me is that if it's set in Japan, all honorifics should be left intact and if it's set outside of Japan they should translate them to something correct for that country. Gunsmith Cats shouldn't have honorifics, Azumanga Daioh should.

I don't see how dropping them "resolves nothing", but I would drop them entirely between siblings. That's simply not part of English language performance, and thus must be liquidated.


Last-names only. "Hey, Smith!"
Used to be the rule in English boarding schools, by the by.


"John" instead of "Mr. Smith".

I prefer them in. It's way simpler to comprehend how the character speaking thinks of the one receiving his message. As a person who translates texts pretty often (mostly for friends or personal reasons) I totally understand why the translators want to use honorifics and just copypasta TLNote. I'm not trnanslating from or to Japanese, but when you translate something for someone else regardless of source and target language, there are much more important things to be aware of than honorifics/adressing.
I might see it this way because of my lack of experience or skill in translating, but how many fansub/manga translator groups are true professionals making their livings from translations?

Not to mention Japanese system of adressing people with their family/given name.