Moe Nazi Book...What the Hell Japan
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Wow wtf. This is so stupid.
What are they gonna do next, make a moe French Revolution book?
I gotta say history class would've been a lot more interesting with drawings like those though. It would be different if his goal was to make history more interesting by doing it that way but this guy is just plain obsessed.
What are they gonna do next, make a moe French Revolution book?
I gotta say history class would've been a lot more interesting with drawings like those though. It would be different if his goal was to make history more interesting by doing it that way but this guy is just plain obsessed.
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Next thing you know, we have otakus preaching that Hitler was actually a loli and stuffs like that.
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Sprite wrote...
Next thing you know, we have otakus preaching that Hitler was actually a loli and stuffs like that.OH GOD PLEASE NO....
If that ever happened then the world is close to an end for sure -.-!
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Nashrakh wrote...
Hmm yeah, the fascination with Nazi Germany isn't particularly new... but I have a feeling it got worse lately.Germans have developed some kind of Nazi paranoia. You can't engage in a political discussion without Godwin's law fucking everywhere.
We also have laws banning all symbols related to Nazism and Holocaust denial, and laws are basically very strict when it comes to racism. Still, we got two "national democrats" parties here, but about every authority tries to ban the shit out of them. To no avail, sadly... (they're within a gray area that's still covered by freedom of speech, but the actions of the party members speak for themselves)
It is because of this that there is no hitler in the game Civilization 4 or 5. Germanland would ban it.
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Nashrakh
Little White Butterflies Staff
Every Call of Duty is also censored the crap out of.
Historical accuracy? What's that?
Historical accuracy? What's that?
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wow. this is just... wow.
but it does remind me of a conversation I had a while ago. Twas about hellsing and the mass amount of nazi in that book. it was something along the lines of "when did these people become storybook evil villians?"
but it does remind me of a conversation I had a while ago. Twas about hellsing and the mass amount of nazi in that book. it was something along the lines of "when did these people become storybook evil villians?"
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There was a panel at AnimeBoston about this because some cosplayers take Nazi-derived cosplays too far. What I learned:
* Japan doesn't teach WWII like it is in America (and I'm assuming the rest of the western world). Instead of teaching it like a psychological war (focus on significance of biological warfare, genecide and other nasty happenings), they just teach it like a typical fight-for-land-and-resources war (Germans were frustrated after taking NEAR-COMPLETE responsibility for the Great War, rallied under Nazi party, tried to make the world their bitch. It failed when they went after Russia).
* Japan teaches it like this because they kinda followed the Nazi's lead, made asses of themselves, got assraped by American firebombing and atomic-bombing on civilian locales. Really, World War II fucked up the Japanese pretty bad; before the war most people still believed the emperor to be the pope-and-a-half, and it really fucked up a lot of their cultural values. 'can't fault them for being ashamed of the war, but you can fault them for glancing over it in history books.
So essentially the Japanese (and weeaboos who happen to be even bigger dipshits) are ignorant to the goings-on of World War II. They don't understand the significance it plays to the rest of the world, and they have the unfortunate habit of romanticising Nazis.
* Japan doesn't teach WWII like it is in America (and I'm assuming the rest of the western world). Instead of teaching it like a psychological war (focus on significance of biological warfare, genecide and other nasty happenings), they just teach it like a typical fight-for-land-and-resources war (Germans were frustrated after taking NEAR-COMPLETE responsibility for the Great War, rallied under Nazi party, tried to make the world their bitch. It failed when they went after Russia).
* Japan teaches it like this because they kinda followed the Nazi's lead, made asses of themselves, got assraped by American firebombing and atomic-bombing on civilian locales. Really, World War II fucked up the Japanese pretty bad; before the war most people still believed the emperor to be the pope-and-a-half, and it really fucked up a lot of their cultural values. 'can't fault them for being ashamed of the war, but you can fault them for glancing over it in history books.
So essentially the Japanese (and weeaboos who happen to be even bigger dipshits) are ignorant to the goings-on of World War II. They don't understand the significance it plays to the rest of the world, and they have the unfortunate habit of romanticising Nazis.
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Anomalouse wrote...
There was a panel at AnimeBoston about this because some cosplayers take Nazi-derived cosplays too far. What I learned:* Japan doesn't teach WWII like it is in America (and I'm assuming the rest of the western world). Instead of teaching it like a psychological war (focus on significance of biological warfare, genecide and other nasty happenings), they just teach it like a typical fight-for-land-and-resources war (Germans were frustrated after taking NEAR-COMPLETE responsibility for the Great War, rallied under Nazi party, tried to make the world their bitch. It failed when they went after Russia).
* Japan teaches it like this because they kinda followed the Nazi's lead, made asses of themselves, got assraped by American firebombing and atomic-bombing on civilian locales. Really, World War II fucked up the Japanese pretty bad; before the war most people still believed the emperor to be the pope-and-a-half, and it really fucked up a lot of their cultural values. 'can't fault them for being ashamed of the war, but you can fault them for glancing over it in history books.
So essentially the Japanese (and weeaboos who happen to be even bigger dipshits) are ignorant to the goings-on of World War II. They don't understand the significance it plays to the rest of the world, and they have the unfortunate habit of romanticising Nazis.
That does make a whole lot of sense. Kinda lightens the issue at hand a little bit since, like you said, the Japanese don't particularly pay attention to the whole genocide bit. But still, it shouldn't be done. Do you have a source or a transcript of this panel? I'm very intrigued.
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Anomalouse wrote...
There was a panel at AnimeBoston about this because some cosplayers take Nazi-derived cosplays too far. What I learned:* Japan doesn't teach WWII like it is in America (and I'm assuming the rest of the western world). Instead of teaching it like a psychological war (focus on significance of biological warfare, genecide and other nasty happenings), they just teach it like a typical fight-for-land-and-resources war (Germans were frustrated after taking NEAR-COMPLETE responsibility for the Great War, rallied under Nazi party, tried to make the world their bitch. It failed when they went after Russia).
* Japan teaches it like this because they kinda followed the Nazi's lead, made asses of themselves, got assraped by American firebombing and atomic-bombing on civilian locales. Really, World War II fucked up the Japanese pretty bad; before the war most people still believed the emperor to be the pope-and-a-half, and it really fucked up a lot of their cultural values. 'can't fault them for being ashamed of the war, but you can fault them for glancing over it in history books.
So essentially the Japanese (and weeaboos who happen to be even bigger dipshits) are ignorant to the goings-on of World War II. They don't understand the significance it plays to the rest of the world, and they have the unfortunate habit of romanticising Nazis.
I kinda saw that connection for Japan's education on this topic. But still, I had my doubts about it. But your point of view really does make it seem like that would be the case. -_-
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lelouch20 wrote...
I kinda saw that connection for Japan's education on this topic. But still, I had my doubts about it. But your point of view really does make it seem like that would be the case. -_-At the panel, they mentioned an old adage, "History is taught by the parties that won." The Japanese are still pretty isolated, they're all fucked up, you can't fault them for omitting the truth. At another panel I heard that the Japanese are also overt, horrible racists.
Razen wrote...
That does make a whole lot of sense. Kinda lightens the issue at hand a little bit since, like you said, the Japanese don't particularly pay attention to the whole genocide bit. But still, it shouldn't be done. Do you have a source or a transcript of this panel? I'm very intrigued.I'm sure if you join the AnimeBoston forums, start a thread, mention the panel that you heard about but didn't see, link this book, and state interest in the Japanese (dis)connection with Nazi Germany, one of the admins should help you out; the people heading the panel were all staff members, two of them were married and senior staff members.
Just make it clear you're disgusted by the book but intrigued by what could drive them to publish it; the people at the panel were plenty smart but struck me as a little... impatient about the issue.
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Flaser
OCD Hentai Collector
While the Japanese attitude of outright *ignoring* war crimes committed by Japan (bio warfare, rape of Nanking, etc). I also find the American approach really tiring as it's often told in a narrative that tries to depict WW II as some sort of fight between good and evil...
...which is bullshit. As David Gerrold adlibs through a history teacher in his War on the Chtorr books, a good history book merely tells the accurate passage of events and back it up with data. Bad books try to explain everything in an agenda laden narrative and rob you of your chance to learn what really happened.
World War II is both the story as told in Japan and Europe - a massive reaction to the injustices of the peace treaties of WW I, military maneuvering, battles and campaigns - as well as a political history of the all-out prelevance of populist ideologies the hate laden self-flagellating madness of masses as well as a history of atrocities.
Giving this a moralizing narrative can only mask and distort this very complex and layered picture.
...and is also a convenient, in that it can cover up the war crimes of the Allies (there were) and also paint that generation in a lot better light then they deserve. The whole era as a whole was a lot more xenophobic and less tolerant. Read the memoirs of Churchill and Roosevelt and you'll realize that by our current standards these were not nice people.
While the Nazi party became the new standard to horror and oppression of the 20th century, when we finally leave such dramatics behind, it can be pointed out their atrocities are no more terrible than what has already been done in Medieval or Ancient times by various cultures - albeit their "efficiency" was horrifically greater thanks to advances in technology.
Finally the Good-vs-Evil dualistic approach robs us of the most important lesson to be learned: that the Nazi party was nothing special. Each and every society has within it the capability to turn itself into a hate machine that perverts the very fabric of our life.
...which is bullshit. As David Gerrold adlibs through a history teacher in his War on the Chtorr books, a good history book merely tells the accurate passage of events and back it up with data. Bad books try to explain everything in an agenda laden narrative and rob you of your chance to learn what really happened.
World War II is both the story as told in Japan and Europe - a massive reaction to the injustices of the peace treaties of WW I, military maneuvering, battles and campaigns - as well as a political history of the all-out prelevance of populist ideologies the hate laden self-flagellating madness of masses as well as a history of atrocities.
Giving this a moralizing narrative can only mask and distort this very complex and layered picture.
...and is also a convenient, in that it can cover up the war crimes of the Allies (there were) and also paint that generation in a lot better light then they deserve. The whole era as a whole was a lot more xenophobic and less tolerant. Read the memoirs of Churchill and Roosevelt and you'll realize that by our current standards these were not nice people.
While the Nazi party became the new standard to horror and oppression of the 20th century, when we finally leave such dramatics behind, it can be pointed out their atrocities are no more terrible than what has already been done in Medieval or Ancient times by various cultures - albeit their "efficiency" was horrifically greater thanks to advances in technology.
Finally the Good-vs-Evil dualistic approach robs us of the most important lesson to be learned: that the Nazi party was nothing special. Each and every society has within it the capability to turn itself into a hate machine that perverts the very fabric of our life.
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The book didn't surprise me. Japan has moe-ified other, albeit more mundane, things and then there's the existence of Hetalia as well. I also think a part of the reason why it was created was because of the Nazi uniform fetish (and I have to admit I find them rather snazzy as well). I would also like to add that pretty much everyone who hasn't personally been in a war or had a close relative in a war are bound to romanticize it.
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Flaser has a good point. WWII is viewed as a fight between good and evil from the American viewpoint but from the Japanese viewpoint it seems it's just viewed as a fight for land. The truth is that both incorporate some truth to it. Germany did have a huge loss after losing in the first WWI and that lead to Hitler thinking of a way to make his country recover. His answer was to create another group and oust anyone that was not a native German or pure blooded. I hate him honestly but if he had taken a different approach, instead of discriminating against the Jews, gypsies, or technically anyone that was not German, then maybe things might have gone differently. I think Japan sees it in this view more since they did support Nazi Germany as part of the Axis.
But ya I hate the bastard and that sinister and cruel Nazi group for all the heinous and inhumane acts they did during that war.
But ya I hate the bastard and that sinister and cruel Nazi group for all the heinous and inhumane acts they did during that war.
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If anything, the Nazis had style- but their most famous uniforms and accessories are largely offshoots from the Italians. It's easy to see how people can become so easily enamoured with the uniforms.
But in regards to the War and the Holocaust, I wouldn't say that the book is glorifying it in any particular way. It's your typical history book- but with eye candy on the side. So in a sense, it could inadvertently be making light of the whole situation- but that's assuming whoever buys/reads the books is a blithering sod with absolutely no mind for history- (which, unfortunately, may very well likely be the case for several people).
As far as the history goes, Anomalouse pretty much has the right of it. Until recently, Japan has largely been a very independent nation, with its own agenda and interests. Allying itself with Germany was really more of a right time/right place situation (much like most of Germanys allies). At the time, it just seemed so invincible- it would be a stupid move not to join the Axis.
But yes- the history books are written by the winners. There is no such thing as being 100% Objective upon the matter.
But in regards to the War and the Holocaust, I wouldn't say that the book is glorifying it in any particular way. It's your typical history book- but with eye candy on the side. So in a sense, it could inadvertently be making light of the whole situation- but that's assuming whoever buys/reads the books is a blithering sod with absolutely no mind for history- (which, unfortunately, may very well likely be the case for several people).
As far as the history goes, Anomalouse pretty much has the right of it. Until recently, Japan has largely been a very independent nation, with its own agenda and interests. Allying itself with Germany was really more of a right time/right place situation (much like most of Germanys allies). At the time, it just seemed so invincible- it would be a stupid move not to join the Axis.
But yes- the history books are written by the winners. There is no such thing as being 100% Objective upon the matter.
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Flaser wrote...
Stuff about Nazi's not being the worst political group ever, not keeping all that text because this post is on the same page.The Soviets were really bad before and while Stalin was in charge; I thought the Gulags (Soviet prisons for political opponents, criminals, among other groups) were on par with the Holocaust, I was wrong (Gulags didn't even come close) but they were still pretty bad. I recently learned something I don't recall hearing in school:
Shortly before the Nazis annexed Poland, they cut a deal with the Soviets to avoid combat with one another, in exchange for the USSR claiming part of Poland and many areas of western Europe along with it. The USSR actually invaded Poland a week or two after the Nazis did. The Soviets also went on to execute over twenty thousand Polish prisoners of war, both military and civilian, in a mass murder in early 1940. The Soviet Union carried out all sorts of wacky mass murders, before and after World War II, shit was fucked.
PumpJack McGee wrote...
If anything, the Nazis had style- but their most famous uniforms and accessories are largely offshoots from the Italians. It's easy to see how people can become so easily enamoured with the uniforms.I know I keep talking about the panel I attended, but this was another point they raised; regardless of the historical significance they now bear, Nazi uniforms look really good.
Personally speaking, I really like the look of the Swastika arm band: I like that it's so striking (uniforms don't use red anymore in the name of camouflage) but still kind of discreet; I like the idea of wearing an emblem on your arm, like every action you do with your arm becomes some sort of salute. I'm not afraid to say it, I like the look.
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Flaser
OCD Hentai Collector
Tell us about it! After World War I, Hungary lost 2/3 of its territory by the treaty of Trianon.
Since "Great Hungary" was ethnically very diverse, but with distinct areas of ethnic homogeneity it would have made sense to cut the big "empire" up along those lines.
Well, that didn't happen. One almost gets the idea that the main aim was to intentionally cripple the economy and infrastructure of the area.
A whole lot of Hungarians ended up over the other side of the border. Not some minorities, but millions of people. 3.3 out of 10.7 million ethnic Hungarians, were stranded on the other side of the border. This resulted in a quite idiosyncratic aims and behavior during World War II on our part.
There is even a joke about how the declaring war on the United States of America went down.
The Hungarian ambassador goes to the White House to state the country's intention.
- Mr. President, I hereby state that the Kingdom of Hungary has declared was on the USA.
- I see. I presume Hungary has a king?
- No Mr. President, Hungary has a governor.
- ...ah, and who happens to be the governor?
- The regent of the Kingdom of Hungary is Rear Admiral Miklós Horthy.
- Admiral, so Hungary has a sea?
- It doesn't.
- ..aham...So what are your territorial demands?
- Transylvania, Upped Hungary and Vojvodina.
- Who holds jurisdiction over these areas?
- Romania, Slovakia and Serbia.
- I presume then these are your enemies?
- No, Mr. President. These are our allies.
Since "Great Hungary" was ethnically very diverse, but with distinct areas of ethnic homogeneity it would have made sense to cut the big "empire" up along those lines.
Well, that didn't happen. One almost gets the idea that the main aim was to intentionally cripple the economy and infrastructure of the area.
A whole lot of Hungarians ended up over the other side of the border. Not some minorities, but millions of people. 3.3 out of 10.7 million ethnic Hungarians, were stranded on the other side of the border. This resulted in a quite idiosyncratic aims and behavior during World War II on our part.
There is even a joke about how the declaring war on the United States of America went down.
The Hungarian ambassador goes to the White House to state the country's intention.
- Mr. President, I hereby state that the Kingdom of Hungary has declared was on the USA.
- I see. I presume Hungary has a king?
- No Mr. President, Hungary has a governor.
- ...ah, and who happens to be the governor?
- The regent of the Kingdom of Hungary is Rear Admiral Miklós Horthy.
- Admiral, so Hungary has a sea?
- It doesn't.
- ..aham...So what are your territorial demands?
- Transylvania, Upped Hungary and Vojvodina.
- Who holds jurisdiction over these areas?
- Romania, Slovakia and Serbia.
- I presume then these are your enemies?
- No, Mr. President. These are our allies.