Issue with comments
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chromaticdad wrote...
GracefulDiscension. wrote...
I have a question for you. If this group was reversed and the people you perceive to be persecuted ie woman in this context of the dialogue and it were men who were treated this way, would you care?I would certainly care had society's entire power structure was reversed and women could actually gain social legitimacy at the highest levels of society victimising and justifying the rape men based on the attitudes that men who sleep around actually 'like it'. But the total opposite is the case, you just have to look at a harem series or our bar culture to see that.
Just to point that there are male issues I do care about, I think systematised male circumcision based for religious and the mother's reasons that it 'just looks gross' are absolutely abhorrent and backwards in the 21st century. It does work both ways.
I fear all of this is really over whether the attitudes around 'slut-shaming' and generic attitudes to rape culture is ok and it is simply not. Most any woman in the 21st century (and particularly ones that have a free internet access with other women) would agree, I could just as easily not be here and it still applies.
But at the same time, any progressive feminist would also agree that you can be a man and care about women's rights. If you truly identify as such, there is nothing to champion in this regard, and you would understand that the actual struggles with things such as rape culture are only made by women and as such are only defined on their terms.
There you go again with "woman's rights." You're only looking one side of the issue man. To be a true gender equalist you have to pay attention the issues of both genders. In the US, Canada and god knows how many other countries it's a legal precedent to award full custody of children in a divorce hearing to a mother. They don't even bother checking most of the time if the father is a better parent or not. It's all oh she's the mother she obviously cares more about the children than the father ever could, when that thinking is abhorrent and counterproductive. I agree with you that both genders get oppressed unfairly, but you have to realize that you can't solve all gender problems by solely focusing on female gender problems, you have to look at male gender problems as well. This is why I cannot stand feminists, they focus too much upon themselves when they should be focusing on men's rights as well.
As for the supposed rape culture you seem think there is, I'll grant you that much, there is a rape culture within the BDSM and hentai subculture. Beyond that it's laughable to even think that we as a society condone rape towards woman, men on the other hand, that I can agree there's a "rape culture." A man raped by a woman is laughed at, ridiculed, and told to man up. The news thinks this, fellow men think this, even FEMINISTS SEEM TO THINK THIS! I fucking hate the hypocrisy of feminists when they say that rape is an abhorrent thing, which it is. But they only care when it's being done to woman, if it happens to man they just laugh and say that man wasn't raped and that it isn't possible for a woman to rape a man.
Imagine a girl gets drunk and sleeps with a guy. Our current laws say that when she wakes up she can say that he raped her. Personal responsibility has been taken out of the picture in this context. This completely disgusting to see, but I can understand how such a law came to be. It was because woman were being slipped roofies in their drinks. It's in that instance I say yeah fuck that guy, he's a douchebag and he deserves his time in jail. Now reverse this situation and a guy gets plastered, to the point where he cannot form a sentence and a woman decides to sleep with him. His girlfriend's best friend decides to play a trick on him and sleeps with him without him realizing. He cannot when he wakes up say that he was raped against his will. His girlfriend would leave him if he mentioned it at all. Now that young man will have to live with that in his conscience, that he unwillingly slept with a girl while his decision making faculties were compromised. This is rape in our laws eyes but she won't get in trouble because he's not a woman. It's saddening to see this.
I await your response.
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The comment section should be avoided.
The only thing worth looking at down there are the DL links.
The only thing worth looking at down there are the DL links.
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GracefulDiscension. wrote...
There you go again with "woman's rights." You're only looking one side of the issue man. To be a true gender equalist you have to pay attention the issues of both genders.
I do pay attention, I already told you I oppose male circumcision.
Much of the other concerns I feel are not wholly legitimate, either because they are contentious, or that the majority of backlash is because of a solution that does not involve a predominantly male distribution of power which is not wholly on their terms which they never consider anyway (an example below), or is simply a hypothetical situation that is really just what-aboutery.
GracefulDiscension. wrote...
In the US, Canada and god knows how many other countries it's a legal precedent to award full custody of children in a divorce hearing to a mother. They don't even bother checking most of the time if the father is a better parent or not. It's all oh she's the mother she obviously cares more about the children than the father ever could, when that thinking is abhorrent and counterproductive. I agree with you that both genders get oppressed unfairly, but you have to realize that you can't solve all gender problems by solely focusing on female gender problems, you have to look at male gender problems as well. This is why I cannot stand feminists, they focus too much upon themselves when they should be focusing on men's rights as well.The simple answer: it isn't. Precedence implies legal binding, and there is no statute written anywhere that prefers mothers custody over fathers. However, there a huge level of factors that do weigh on court's decision in these matters, and and I will simply say that sometimes you are right on this, sometimes you are not.
GracefulDiscension. wrote...
As for the supposed rape culture you seem think there is, I'll grant you that much, there is a rape culture within the BDSM and hentai subculture.
I'd just like you to take a step back and have a look at what you're trying to justify, which is people actively expressing (remember this is on the comments, not the forum) a verbal threat to any woman who chooses to read a manga with a promiscuous woman, and daring to even perhaps identify with her, a slut and a whore by association. Which, as you've told me here, you actually understand and agree that this is real and not wanted!
GracefulDiscension. wrote...
Beyond that it's laughable to even think that we as a society condone rape towards woman, men on the other hand, that I can agree there's a "rape culture." I was out with my sister one night about 5 years ago, we were dressed to go out to some club, and a man groped her vagina because she was dressed in clothes that made him think it was his right because she was 'asking for it'.
There is absolutely a culture that tries to shame independent behaviour and tries to make it acceptable for rape and it is in everyday society, from attitudes in hentai to being blamed for being raped because you weren't being escorted by a man.
GracefulDiscension. wrote...
A man raped by a woman is laughed at, ridiculed, and told to man up. The news thinks this, fellow men think this, even FEMINISTS SEEM TO THINK THIS! I fucking hate the hypocrisy of feminists when they say that rape is an abhorrent thing, which it is. But they only care when it's being done to woman, if it happens to man they just laugh and say that man wasn't raped and that it isn't possible for a woman to rape a man. There simply are not enough cases to back this up, nor a level of unsolved rapes, nor can we give any estimation on the level of unreported rapes due to 'being laughed at'. If a man have been overpowered in some way to have been raped then there is a damn good reason because of it and he will simply be taken seriously. This is just how the police works, they don't just laugh men out of the station.
GracefulDiscension. wrote...
Imagine a girl gets drunk and sleeps with a guy. Our current laws say that when she wakes up she can say that he raped her. Personal responsibility has been taken out of the picture in this context. This completely disgusting to see, but I can understand how such a law came to be. It was because woman were being slipped roofies in their drinks. It's in that instance I say yeah fuck that guy, he's a douchebag and he deserves his time in jail.So far so good!
GracefulDiscension. wrote...
Now reverse this situation and a guy gets plastered, to the point where he cannot form a sentence and a woman decides to sleep with him. His girlfriend's best friend decides to play a trick on him and sleeps with him without him realizing. He cannot when he wakes up say that he was raped against his will. His girlfriend would leave him if he mentioned it at all. Now that young man will have to live with that in his conscience, that he unwillingly slept with a girl while his decision making faculties were compromised. This is rape in our laws eyes but she won't get in trouble because he's not a woman. It's saddening to see this.I'd like to challenge what you're assuming in your thought experiment. Think about what's happening, this is actually a situation in which a societal solution that shifts power away from male-centrism works (see above). A woman date-rapes you (that's pretty much how it is worded), you wake up and assume because blacking out and having sex 'is what alpha-men do', you cheated on your girlfriend. By treating it on a premise that men, like women, must always be under total consensual understanding during sex, there is no way for there to be an inequality and no social reference points for his girlfriend to think this was anything other than rape.
I feel that the issue is being diverted to something that is more generic and less about this site with regards to this. It is partly my fault for rising up to the 'white-knighting' thing, and I don't want to deflect your concerns, but I think that there are many ways this can get derailed, and I would like to concentrate on just the hentai subculture.
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The irony of this thread is hilarious to me.
[size=10]here's a hint: several others have already pointed it out[/h]
[size=10]here's a hint: several others have already pointed it out[/h]
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Cruz
Dope Stone Lion
Freedom of speech is wonderful thing.
Sure you might find them offensive, but if it's such a big problem to you, what do you propose we do?
Sure you might find them offensive, but if it's such a big problem to you, what do you propose we do?
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Mr.Shaggnificent wrote...
The irony of this thread is hilarious to me. [size=10]here's a hint: several others have already pointed it out[/h]
I'm not sure if you know the meaning of the word ironic.
cruz737 wrote...
Freedom of speech is wonderful thing. Sure you might find them offensive, but if it's such a big problem to you, what do you propose we do?
As was pointed out, its only use really are the download links, but I'm not even calling for anything to be gotten *rid* of, just a 'show comments' button so that they aren't something actually displayed as an unavoidable part of the UX really would do. Not necessary but at least some disclaimer that views are not expressed by the group as a whole would really work to just distance yourself from everything displayed.
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The irony is your 'white knighting' in defence of the sexist treatment os women, is in itself sexist. they are capable of defending themselves.
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Mr.Shaggnificent wrote...
The irony is your 'white knighting' in defence of the sexist treatment os women, is in itself sexist. they are capable of defending themselves. You just got Shagged! (new catch phrase bro!)
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Cinia Pacifica
Ojou-sama Writer
Grock wrote...
The only thing worth looking at down there are the DL links.That's all that it's good for, anyway.
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Mr.Shaggnificent wrote...
The irony is your 'white knighting' in defence of the sexist treatment os women, is in itself sexist. they are capable of defending themselves. That's not irony. That would be hypocrisy, were it even true.
And of course they are, but whether or not it is a man that has a problem with seeing sexism and considering it a negative aspect of a site or group has nothing to do with that. Identifying sexism is not a sexist act, that's absolutely fucking ridiculous