FAKKU Writers' Lounge

Like high said. I bother you about your lack of participation because I want you to. If this event style bothered you so much, you should have said something during the Halloween one. How is this wasting potential? We could have a contest every month, every week, every day. We do what we want and we want to write in a Valentines day event without the stress of competition. You want a competition and prizes and advertizing? Well, position just opened up, we're hiring. Feel free to fill it. Again, if you want to change the way things are run, then you have to act. Your words alone are meaningless, especially when you are speaking only for yourself so far. If anyone agrees with him, then I want to hear their opinions.

And don't question my knowledge of trolling. My epic signature is clearly the ultimate example. I wanted you to be trolling so you would have a way out and say "Haha, I was joking. Let's have a great time writing whatever we want without the stress of competition," but it looks like you were being serious after all. That's pretty disappointing, there are much better tactful ways of suggesting how this event can be better rather than "fuck this, I'm out." People are trying hard to do this for the subforum and you're trying to shut them down speaking from the peanut gallery. You're not even posting this in the thread itself where it's most important.

I love you, Rise, but that is so random out of the blue. No one wants you to leave. Come on, you think you're standing for the betterment of the section, but clearly the section majority wants to do it this way. Besides, we are basically banned from front page advertizements from now on, so all advertizing is severely handicapped. Also, just because there are no prizes or judges doesn't mean someone new won't want to join in. There are even prizes now anyway, if you'd bother to look at the thread again. So, I want you to take a couple deep breaths and work through this with us. You want us to have prizes. People are donating them. What else do you want, judges? Fine, I'll submit a judging curriculum later today and we can all vote in-depth in spelling, grammar, punctuation, story and personal interest. It will be optional because I can't force people to use it. What else should we have, advertizing? Alright, go to the places you regularly visit elsewhere in the forum and invite people to join, or do as high does and invite people from outside the site.

I'm trying to work with you here, and I don't want you to get upset, but you have to be willing to work with us half-way to make what you want a reality.

I was supposed to ignore this because of my last exam tomorrow, but something about this post kept nagging at the back of my head to reply like a responsible user.

:V





How is there any actual lack of participation? I've been quite active on the Writing forum recently, actually. As I write quite a fucking lot when I RP. Granted you, nor no one reads, but I'm pretty sure I'm writing more than most in the same forum we're talking about here. I'm just not solo-writing because there's nothing enticing in it for me. I'm getting a fair share of criticism when I'm writing with others, so I'm not especially lusting after critiques for now.

Now, I didn't participate on your event and this apparently made you felt disappointed.

What do you expect man, I have 'A' Levels and that definitely takes high priority, so I had to carefully decide what I'd do in my free times while studying.

Writing an entry takes more than just 'on the spot writing' like RPing, a lot of plot ideas, checking if the flow is right, and then how the characters should be behaving, to typo-checking and just straightening everything out in general, while considering the word limit is in order.

I could enter by writing in my spare time, but there were other things I was more interested in, such as my GA RP. I barely have readers, but I like writing with the other cool chaps.

I can enter the Valentines event if I really want to (tomorrow is my last exam for the session), but there's nothing really encouraging in it for me. Sure I can write for the sake of it, but I think for now, with an event like this. It's still a possibility; it's probably not a fact.I have better things to do. Anons and lurkers may think similarly when faced

Oh, and about Solid's event. I wanted to see how it'd play out (he kinda ignored my suggestions when I stated them anyway), turns out there were a few entries from the lurkers... but that's it. Funny thing is, I was about to say that I'll do a Halloween contest since Solid seemed like he couldn't find any potential prizes, but he kinda just went ahead and did it before I could confirm things with him. Well, he wanted to do this, so I didn't blame him nor mentioned a thing about my plans here. There's no real need to, either.




Sorry, but that kind of a self-proclaimed 'badass' judge thing doesn't really do a thing, nor does it make you automatically knowledgeable. What does make you knowledgeable from my perspective are my past experiences and interactions with you, via which I got to know what kind of a person you are. In other words I know you better without that, and to think you'd come to such a terrible conclusion sorta baffles me. You want me to do something if I don't like how things are? Well, there really isn't anything I can do now that an event is already up. So stop repeating that, I did gave you my word for the Summer contest It will happen, and I already have some ways to get prize... or are you telling me to drop that and poof? No problem, I can comply to that. I only ever do contests because people like them.

I'm not so low as you imply, that I'd just go and spam my disapproval on his own thread. I know a better place where the host appears anyway. I really don't see the harm because people usually has nothing to talk about in here, but they do lurk this thread regardless.



A ban of front page advertising from now on? Did Jacob specifically stated this somewhere? :V

High probability someone new won't bother, though. I'm not saying that a contest with prizes has 100% chances of getting new users (it does get not-known people posting entries out of blue, which is not so bad). How do you even think El Chacal started to appear in the subforum? Might wanna try to first get more people, because it's still just a few people posting on most threads. Actually nevermind that, I think it's best if this subforum stays as small as this. Everyone seems to want it to be that way. I literally just realized it, and decided to stop this reply here.

Regarding donation prizes: What? I just went there and he said there won't be any official prizes. If it's about the 'you can give prizes to who you think deserves them' this is a terrible solution, and you know it.

Regarding judging: I wasn't even arguing about it, you can just do a poll, and no, I decided to refrain from trying to improve high's event (which I decided to do in the form of advices), but I'll refrain. Based on my perspective, if a thread is made and done - it's too late to change anything.

Why on earth do you think we want an event that doesn't cause one to stress out over those things? Perhaps because you're right. When you're trying to win, you put in a lot of hard work to make the attempt, but free-form events remove the stress of perfecting your entry, though you should attempt to regardless, there are much less stressors. A Modern Pilgrim was a first draft. I only re-read it once over to catch errors. If I was trying to win some prize, I probably would have re-wrote a couple things, but I was happy that I could just bust out what I wanted to regardless of the rules, or lack thereof. It was entirely different in a better way. I give you guff for not participating by not submitting an entry in seasonal contests and events because half of me wants to see writings from you. But, the other half is just harassing you because it's a joke. Do you really think I think less of you that you don't write? No, I don't care at all what you spend your time doing, but if you're going to criticize how people are running the events when you don't participate in them, then you're putting yourself up on a soapbox. We are trying so damn hard to talk about this reasonably with you, but you make all sorts of insulting and prejudicial statements about how this is killing the section and not bringing in new members. We have two contests in the year, when you run a summer one, that give prizes and attempt to advertise to new people. You say we should have four. I really don't think we will destroy the section by not having polling and judging and prizes for a third time in the same year.



And I have better things to do than argue with someone who is so convinced that they won't participate anyway. Take an active role in suggesting and making the changes that you think will make the section better if it will cause you to participate. I'm just growing pretty tired of trying to convince you that you matter, but you keep threatening to leave and disappear left and right. If I were anyone else, I'd have given up already, but I'm me and no matter how many times you strike out my words (don't do that), I care about you and that's why I'm responding.



Sorry that you're too angry to take a joke, I find it pretty hilarious and ironic, and a pretty funny satire on blingee culture worthy of leonard, but I guess I can't force you to enjoy it.



No, I don't want you to do something you don't like. I want you to try and help it change to a way you and everyone will like. high is clearly trying to mold it to help you like it more. For you to say that you can't change it just because it's already a thread makes no sense. Just ask for something to be changed. Hell, the original word count was divided by half just because Dawn_of_Dark asked it to be. high complied because he thought it made sense. What makes you think he won't make modifications that you suggest if people agree with them?

Stop threatening to leave. I really don't need the stress of trying to appease you, to convince you that your presence is desired and even needed. Especially when I'm trying my damn hardest to get that point across to you, but you're not listening. I really don't know what else to say in that regard.



What's "low" about voicing your opinion of something you disagree with or feel it would be better run differently? Voicing opinions aren't "low" or "spam." This is a worse place because you're extending the topic of discussion away from the people that it matters to and affects. There are several W&F frequenters who choose not to ever visit the lounge, but I think they might have some interesting perspectives to add about this topic, don't you? I think it's only fair that they deserve an opinion since you're basically saying the event would be better as a contest and it's essentially slowly being turned into one.



And that's why I'm trying to work these difficulties out with you. I need you to work with me back.



No, he didn't specifically state it, you know he wouldn't specifically make a claim one way or the other. I discovered it was so when a mod told me that front page permissions were removed from W&F threads when they tried to front page this past Winter contest on my request and they told me that it was bugging out and not letting them, even though they have the ability. It's become restricted to only something the global administrator (Jacob) can allow, and he doesn't really want to do that. What can we do? Nothing. We have to advertise without front page posts from now on. It really sucks.



It's really insulting to me that you are accusing the community of being worthless because we apparently don't have a bunch of random users who only show up for a contest and jump off the edge of the earth afterwards. And El Chacal? He creates lovely entries, but he is in that exact same boat. Submits to contests, but almost never speaks a word in-between them. I don't care if he leaves or lurks, it doesn't make him a bad person either way, but prizes and polling does not equal frequent W&F users. Individual people with the drive to come back make frequent W&F users, and if we think it's a better idea to chill out and make the section better by having a small prize-less event, then that's even more important because at least the people who bother to show themselves more than a couple times a year will be happier for it. I really don't want to hear you insult our group of writers again by calling us 'kids' or saying we don't matter because we're "few." What is "few" anyway? I think we have a ton of great writers. Maybe we didn't get 70 entries this Winter contest, but we did get 16 amazing ones and it's my opinion that every single one of those is incredible and deserved to win. Every one.



It's not a terrible solution, but it does have loopholes that I told him about since I noticed them, like how people could have the same favorite, and he thought it would be better if we met beforehand to decide who gets which person's prizes. Now that I think about it, that's essentially like a secret Santa/Gift exchange/round robin prize award. Now, I think that's a great idea. If everyone offers a small prize, then high can assign someone random. I'm going to go suggest this in the place where it matters and see what people think of it. People probably will like it. Thanks, Rise. You helped me think of this without even knowing.



Although I think polls are fine, they tend not to hold much weight when the winner only receives the status as such. Why even have a poll if there's no singular or restricted prize for winning first or second? It might make sense if sora wants to make a VN out of the winner's story.

And it's not too late to change it. Watch it change again soon.

I hope to see a response to this in a couple hours after I rest. I essentially lost my entire night's sleep over trying to respond to you in a somewhat legible manner. Hopefully you take that positively—the way I want you to—that I'm willing to nix my sleep in order to work towards compromise with you because of how important it is to me. Think about it.

Planned to just leave this going without any fuck given but then I see this...



Man, for real? That's pretty queer. If he has something against community activities that is unrelated to hentai (or money, heh) in some way, he should just say so.

As much as I thought that it would have been nice to adopt your philosophy to not give things you think aren't worth it the time of day, I just can't do it. These things matter too much to me, although it probably would have been easier on my psyche and I would have a lot more sleep today if I just set it aside...And it's already morning.



The waifu game obviously still gets posted, so that's something, but there's a lot more attention to that contest. I don't think he has that much against community activities beyond that they not start outshining the Hentai uploads. It was just more complex several years ago when a bunch of drama went down about this very topic that I theorize may have caused this to happen (You might remember it, since I believe you were around). I don't really know that much else, so I can't really say for sure.

still making changes to the event so it could be somehow reasonable to all =)

that aside, I'd probably just try to find some new games to play in the meantime as well as focusing to IRL stuffs as I waited. maybe there's the final terms going in-between, but I'll try to be active.

There are more level-headed ways to be approaching this problem. A compromise consists of opposing parties coming to a decision that both can agree on. And no one (including you Xenon) seems to be providing an adequate discussion on how the situation can get better. The best bit of discussion that is buried is that high is willing to change the contest, which I think is a problem that I will talk about below. I'll even use some nice formatting!

Definitions:
Contest - Contains a prize(s) and a sufficient, reliable way to award the prize(s), whether that be in the form of judging or polling.
Event - Does not contain a prize(s) that can be sufficiently and reliably awarded.

Argument 1
It is clear that at least SOME people want an excuse to write without the pressure or strict limitations that would normally be associated with a contest. Some writers like a deadline, they like a theme, and posting during what I will now label as an 'event' provides that opportunity.

Argument 2
These events help nurture and maintain the small community that we already have. There is no reason why there shouldn't be an event.

Counter Argument to 1 & 2
Just make it a proper contest with prizes that can be given in the form of prizes or a quick judge line up. A contest serves the purpose of an event, while providing incentive, and it still nurtures the small community with a higher potential of new writers. Note that a contest doesn't have to be serious or impose 2k word limits.

My Thoughts
Correct me if my definition is wrong, but the moment an event obtains the ability to properly bestow a prize onto selected individuals, it becomes a contest, irregardless of an individual's desire to win or not. If you entered the contest to win then that's fine, if you entered for fun/experience that is also fine. Stress from a contest is self-imposed. Those that would enter an event are highly likely to enter if it was a contest.

My problem with more contests is that it costs resources. Anything from judging to prizes have to be accounted for to maintain the integrity of the contest. Just how shitty would it be for a judge to bail or for a prize to be canceled? Events like the Winter/Summer contest generally take up a lot human resources (writers and judges alike), and that is one of the reasons I do not (yet) intend on joining the Valentine Event. I'm burned out. And I'm sure the judges are burned out.

My Compromise
First, set some general dates.

February (Valentine Event)
June-August (Summer Contest)
October (Halloween Event)
December (Winter Contest)

Second, I propose that any event, can be made into a contest given that human resources are available and willing, and that these changes are made before the event begins. Just make sure to discuss beforehand.

Using this method covers all the bases I think. We keep the Summer and Winter contests as serious contests. The Valentine/Halloween and any other additional events are initially prize-less. And before the event rolls around, just ask if there are any willing judges and/or ask if anyone has prizes or ideas for prizes. If there are resources then we've got ourselves a contest! If not, then it simply stays an event. People who planned write for fun can and should be still writing for fun even if the event turns into a contest.

Either way, we will have something whether it be a event or contest, for people to enter, and that is the important part.

Some Final Thoughts
Lack of preparation brought about many of the problems at hand. The Valentine thread was posted the same day High put up a draft in the lounge. There was little room for feedback or discussion. Of course, technically, the event can still be changed, but honestly that's just really annoying. I'd be a bit apprehensive of the idea if someone went ahead and made an event and then came to ask how it can be improved. Somewhere along those lines, there is a hint of disrespect, even if it is unintentional.

I know I might come off as a stickler and rather rigid, but using this kind of format makes things rather clear at least. I don't mean we have to be so strict about these things, but I'm saying that, these kinds of arguments can easily have been avoided with some preparation.

thanks alot, xnine. you really cleared my mind so I can finally decide on things.

okay then.

I think it's now more about how to keep it as prize-less or to make it with prizes.

I personally would opt to make it even simpler by not including prizes, but due to the pressures put on me, I'm trying to change things in order to appease most parties. I think it eventually ends up to be a lot more complicated than what I think.

first of all, I'm really sorry about not deciding things beforehand. starting out without much preparation truly brought about problems that were getting out of hand.

so yeah. to conclude this sooner or later, I'll settle this down with a poll in this lounge.

those who opt for the prize thing on this event, give your yay.

those who opt for the prizeless event, give your nay.

we'll decide together the outcome until it reaches the final note. and after the majority vote was accomplished, I hope there won't be any hard-feelings anymore about this.

I think we need to pull the entirety of the section together, and yeah, give our votes =D

there might be a better way to accomplish this, but the votes thingy is the best I can think of.

People have already offered prizes this time, I think it would be a waste of their goodwill, so I vote to keep the prizes.

This contest will simply have to run its course. I would say feel free to change the contest as you see fit this time, but we should follow some prep and format for future events.

yeah, you're right. I kind of agreed we have to move on no matter what.

I truly changed my mind because people generously offered to give out prizes when there's originally none.

yeah. it serves as a good lesson for me not to jump on the gun right away.

Alright, got some rest and I think I'm feeling a bit better...



No, that was actually exactly what this argument needed, some outline and organization and thank you for providing it.

And you're right. I was not as much help as I could have been in arguing with Rise, I certainly wasn't as patient and level-headed as I normally am and I think just setting it aside and sleeping on it may have avoided it.

For that, I'd like to publicly apologize to Rise. I got upset with you and my words are no help when I'm speaking tired and offended.

I hope you can forgive me and we can move passed this for the benefit of the section as a whole and the users within it. It would really mean a lot to me if you could accept my apology, and that is genuine.

In regards to the contest, I really like the Valentines gift exchange idea, provided that everyone offers something to the pot. It doesn't have to be lavish or expensive. But, this may not work out for various reasons, maybe not everyone is so willing to offer something. I'm not sure.

We really should have thought this out through and through before starting the event/contest/whateverthehellitis. Changes made during the submission period can lead to confusion to say the least. As Xnine has said, people have already offered prizes for this thing, so why vote nay and say, "Hey man, take your prizes elsewhere."

I vote yay.

Also, has no one seen this?



That's sounds like a pretty cool prize.

"...huh. Guess I won't be joining then," said one guy over there.

It sounds way up there that I can't see it working it all [1]. Not to mention that a prize that only gives everyone more work (which, assuming we don't intend to do a half-assed job of, will eat up more resources than the official biannual contests combined) is not quite the kind of prize I'm imagining...

[1] I don't know what this Xmas Rose thing is, so I have no standards to base the offer upon. Therefore I'm treating it with as much skepticism as if someone suddenly announces that TSK is be made a game/anime. "Pfft. Sure~~~"

Except with much less excitement.

I probably got the same idea as you as I'm unsure to go with whether option. I generally opt for yay, but consider my votes out since I'll just follow whatever the majority chooses.



yeah, it's all my fault for jumping the gun right away =D

I'm generally excited about that, but mibu has raised a valid point why this prize probably won't be included. let's just say, when we didn't have that much interest in Visual Novels and suddenly got offered the chance to write one, or we had interests and we didn't really have enough time or inspiration in our hands.

as an alternative, sora_coltrane could probably choose the others who would be interested. even if it's not included as a prize, consider it to be an optional potential to develop right after the contest ends.

There is a link. It was in the original post, but I guess it doesn't work in the quote since I just copied it. Check it out for yourself. It isn't long.

Fuck. With that kind of art, I'm on board. Still don't see this working out but heck, the mere thought of seeing my characters drawn is great.

Except, I am a busy and uninspired dude. I'll bite if I have some love story worth telling. After KnH it's hard to start anything on the same lines.

Chances are they haven't come up with the prizes. I think they would be glad if we did not put pressure on them to come up with those prizes for this event.

I have discussed this with high. I am of the opinion that this event should not require any of the participants to come up with prizes.The whole event is inspired by SolidShark's writing event where anyone who wants to submit an entry is free to do so. If no one wants to join the event, I will come up with mulitple entries and I will have fun with the organiser discussing what we have written. Who knew that there would be so many changes?

I don't want high to lose sleep over this. Wouldn't it be better to leave the event as it is? If sora or FGRaptor wants to come up with their rewards for the entries they enjoyed, let them have the liberty to do so. If some of the contestants want to play Secret Santa, let them do so as well. It is quite similar to my Mudslinging thread where I parodied the entries of some of the contestants. Xenon, Jerry and Grover did not point a gun at my head demanding me to write them. I did so in order to reassure these contestants that I have read their entries and hope they appreciate my attempts to make them laugh. For those who enjoyed the parodies, it was a gift of sorts.

There has been some talk about getting new people to the Writing Section. Some of you may know that I am one of those people who became active in the Writing Section because of the contests. I knew however that I can't import the prizes; I don't think I stood a chance of winning because of the nature of my written work but I joined the Lounge and the Writing Section anyway.

The reason why I did so is because high_time enjoyed what I write and I want to make others feel the same. It is not because of the prizes or the titles.

I elect to keep the event as what high originally set out.

I figured I should let you guys know. I signed up for a lit mag class this semester, and we will be producing our own magazine. We're taking submissions from pretty much everywhere. Want me and like 15 other people to read your stuff and possibly have it published? Go right ahead and submit. Follow this link for all the information you need to know, but to sum it up:

- We're accepting both poetry and short stories as well as images

- Submissions shouldn't exceed 2,500 words

- You should also include a cover letter of sorts along with your submission including your name, address and all that stuff

- The deadline is March 24th, I believe. The image in the link says the 31st, but that's a typo

- Submissions should be turned into suisunvalleyreview@gmail.com

- Last but not least, you'll get two free copies of the magazine if your submission is chosen

Now, I'm not gonna lie. The instructor said to expect anywhere between 750-1000 submissions (and I get to experience the joy of reading all of them), but about only 40 of them will make it into the magazine. I don't wanna discourage anyone, but don't be offended if you submit an entry and it doesn't make it in.

well said for the opinion. it certainly make things simpler when we kept it prizeles. though it's certainly got straightened out when sora_coltrane told us that the visual novel thingy was for the stuff after the contest, and it's more like a mass collaboration open to all =D

anyway, still waiting for more inputs, and if things turn out to be keeping the prizes. we can start discussing about how to evenly distribute the prizes.



I think I would be more offended if I actually submitted something random and actually making it in!

I need to login in order to access the link you have provided.