Closed relationships vs. open relationships
0
What if someone isn't able to satisfy his loved one sexually?
Or what about an asexual who is together with a hetero/homosexual?
Not to mention that for many people sex always with the same person seems boring, though that doesn't mean they're unable to love.
Most people would agree that one of the pillars of a love relationship is that you would want your loved one to be as happy and satisfied as possible, denying them the wish to engage in intercourse with someone else seems to go against that. Your jealousy doesn't change that it is very selfish.
You should feel happy that your love is satisfied and vice versa.
Swinger clubs seem to be a prime example that even married couples can have an enjoyable sex life with other people without their love relationship suffering.
Also, you seem to see sex as a prime part of love but many people have sex totally casually just for enjoyment, without any deeper emotional connection.
However, what about that person that makes you feel content when he/she is around you?
What about the shoulder on which you can cry yourself out?
The person for that you feel that bit more than friendship?
What about that person who shares your interest or at least pretends to, for you?
These aren't qualities that people show casually, most of the time they mean it.
Aren't they the real signs of love?
Note: I am playing the Advocatus Diaboli here since the thread was rather one-sided up until now.
Or what about an asexual who is together with a hetero/homosexual?
Not to mention that for many people sex always with the same person seems boring, though that doesn't mean they're unable to love.
Most people would agree that one of the pillars of a love relationship is that you would want your loved one to be as happy and satisfied as possible, denying them the wish to engage in intercourse with someone else seems to go against that. Your jealousy doesn't change that it is very selfish.
You should feel happy that your love is satisfied and vice versa.
Swinger clubs seem to be a prime example that even married couples can have an enjoyable sex life with other people without their love relationship suffering.
Also, you seem to see sex as a prime part of love but many people have sex totally casually just for enjoyment, without any deeper emotional connection.
However, what about that person that makes you feel content when he/she is around you?
What about the shoulder on which you can cry yourself out?
The person for that you feel that bit more than friendship?
What about that person who shares your interest or at least pretends to, for you?
These aren't qualities that people show casually, most of the time they mean it.
Aren't they the real signs of love?
Note: I am playing the Advocatus Diaboli here since the thread was rather one-sided up until now.
0
You have some good points and I will try to get them all, but it is really hard for me to be really serius on the internet....But here we go.
I see you point, you can only make love to the same person for so long, but that falls into not so much do you love them, but how long. You can love a person and never be able to be with them for one reason or another (this is the life I lead) but as for asexuals I believe most claim that they can't love, so that leaves those that can't satisfy. Well there is always something you can do, maybe you don't like it but they do, or visa versa, that is part of a relationship coming up with what makes it work and trying damn hard to make it work.
You do want your love to be as satisfied as possable, but it is rarly at the cost of you or your feelings. If you allow something to happen that you don't like or that hurts you, you cheap your value as a human, and most of the time in the eyes of the person hurting you. And life and being human is all about very selfish, both sides will treat it as such. You can say you wont, but if a guy comes up to your girl and buys her a drink and starts talking to her you will get mad. You can't tell me that you wouldn't and that in itself shows that you care for them and are jealouse of the actions they do.
As for swingers, I feel that these are a true sign that a relationship is on the rock. Look at some older (like 90 +) couples. Most haven't had sex with each other for many years, but do they seem mad or upset. Alot of them are just happy that the person they chose to be with is still alive to laugh at them and with them.
As for sex being a prime part of love I don't believe I ever said that. I said to give yourself to them only. That doesn't have to be sex, did every relationship you have end up going to sex, I would assume not. You can love a person marry them and spend your whole life with them, but have lost you ability to have sex. That doesn't change the fact that you have given yourself fully to that person. Also yes, you can have sex with people you don't love, I do. But thats all it is sex, they don't get more. They don't get the truth, the things that turn you on, the things that make you care about them as more than sex. They get a call because you are horny and they have some free time. I mean do you hang out with a one night stand after the fact, or the next morning?
Those all fall under my definesion of love (we see that the same way), but if those things are really there than that persons actions will effect you, and I find it hard to believe you could shrough off the shareing of that which is meant to be yours. In most relationships atleast one of the partys is full devoted to the other (if they are not this relationship is over within 3 years give or take a year), so even if one party has a major problem with this open relationship. They will keep quite about it for awhile til it breaks them. And then what was it all for. This also leads back the fact that if all this doesn't bother you than I don't believe this to be love. You can laugh and cry and fuck with friends, but in the end of the day will you die for them? Normally yes, but would you give yourself only to them, because that is true love.
*holy fuck I need to rest, my brain hurts.*
I see you point, you can only make love to the same person for so long, but that falls into not so much do you love them, but how long. You can love a person and never be able to be with them for one reason or another (this is the life I lead) but as for asexuals I believe most claim that they can't love, so that leaves those that can't satisfy. Well there is always something you can do, maybe you don't like it but they do, or visa versa, that is part of a relationship coming up with what makes it work and trying damn hard to make it work.
You do want your love to be as satisfied as possable, but it is rarly at the cost of you or your feelings. If you allow something to happen that you don't like or that hurts you, you cheap your value as a human, and most of the time in the eyes of the person hurting you. And life and being human is all about very selfish, both sides will treat it as such. You can say you wont, but if a guy comes up to your girl and buys her a drink and starts talking to her you will get mad. You can't tell me that you wouldn't and that in itself shows that you care for them and are jealouse of the actions they do.
As for swingers, I feel that these are a true sign that a relationship is on the rock. Look at some older (like 90 +) couples. Most haven't had sex with each other for many years, but do they seem mad or upset. Alot of them are just happy that the person they chose to be with is still alive to laugh at them and with them.
As for sex being a prime part of love I don't believe I ever said that. I said to give yourself to them only. That doesn't have to be sex, did every relationship you have end up going to sex, I would assume not. You can love a person marry them and spend your whole life with them, but have lost you ability to have sex. That doesn't change the fact that you have given yourself fully to that person. Also yes, you can have sex with people you don't love, I do. But thats all it is sex, they don't get more. They don't get the truth, the things that turn you on, the things that make you care about them as more than sex. They get a call because you are horny and they have some free time. I mean do you hang out with a one night stand after the fact, or the next morning?
Those all fall under my definesion of love (we see that the same way), but if those things are really there than that persons actions will effect you, and I find it hard to believe you could shrough off the shareing of that which is meant to be yours. In most relationships atleast one of the partys is full devoted to the other (if they are not this relationship is over within 3 years give or take a year), so even if one party has a major problem with this open relationship. They will keep quite about it for awhile til it breaks them. And then what was it all for. This also leads back the fact that if all this doesn't bother you than I don't believe this to be love. You can laugh and cry and fuck with friends, but in the end of the day will you die for them? Normally yes, but would you give yourself only to them, because that is true love.
*holy fuck I need to rest, my brain hurts.*
0
Actually many asexual identify as heteroromantic, homoromantic or bi-romantic so I don't think the argument that they don't feel love is valid.
What about some sexual needs that a certain partner never will be able to satisfy by himself/herself no matter how hard he/she wants it or tries?
Classical examples would be inadequate breast/penis sizes or wanting to experience a threesome at least once.
Another example that comes to mind is a cuckoldry fetish/kink, this surely cannot be fullfilled without other people.
Of course, a relationship doesn't need to be open if both partners don't feel the need for sex (anymore), there is no argument there.
You have some good points and I will try to get them all, but it is really hard for me to be really serius on the internet....But here we go.
Don't worry you're doing fine, it's been a long time since I took part in a challenging discussion.
What about some sexual needs that a certain partner never will be able to satisfy by himself/herself no matter how hard he/she wants it or tries?
Classical examples would be inadequate breast/penis sizes or wanting to experience a threesome at least once.
Another example that comes to mind is a cuckoldry fetish/kink, this surely cannot be fullfilled without other people.
Of course, a relationship doesn't need to be open if both partners don't feel the need for sex (anymore), there is no argument there.
Moses wrote...
You have some good points and I will try to get them all, but it is really hard for me to be really serius on the internet....But here we go.
Don't worry you're doing fine, it's been a long time since I took part in a challenging discussion.
0
*Yeah a shorter one*
As I said I had just heard that,I have never even met a asexual person so. But again being asexual still kinda cuts them out the this discussion. I mean the term means that they have no true sexual attraction to any sex, so it would fall under the no sex may equal a happy couple, because I would think at some early on part of the relationship the asexual would tell about this "problem" and the partner would come up with what they feel they should do.
You right there is no partner in this world that can met all your feteishes, but such is life. I don't see because Jim doesn't have a big enough dick he should understand and be happy your fucking fred, do you? I mean I have small breast, that doesn't mean its ok if the cheats or wants to cheat because he likes DD. These are problems you have to work out. No on said relationships are easy you have to work them out.
Three somes are a hard thing to explain, because NORMALLY a three some is done between 3 people that have formed this trust. It is a really weird thing (I have been in a three some). I mean if you arn't just the grab the kinda couple that grabs a random person off the street (again I believe something is wrong with the love in your relationshitp), but the kind that finds a friend that is will to be involed, you are dealing with the both kinds of loves at once, but I think I will just let you have this one, because if you involeve you partener in this fully and just use the other as a stimulus I can't really say it isn't for the fullness of your relationship or just feeling good in the moment.
As for people fucking your partner while you watch I find this really worng. So you are saying you can't get off with this person unless they are being fucked by another person? I can't again say you don't love them, but I can say you probably have some underlieing problem you may want to see about addressing, but then again this might be what a asexual or person that can't have sex for whatever reason feels they need to do....so I guess this would be their sex. But that just goes back to a three some, if you are just useing the other person to get off and love your partner and make them feel even better by bringing a toy (I know people as toys....) to bed then you really can't say that it isn't going to work, it just has to stay that way, as in they are a stimulaus not the full thing.
As I said I had just heard that,I have never even met a asexual person so. But again being asexual still kinda cuts them out the this discussion. I mean the term means that they have no true sexual attraction to any sex, so it would fall under the no sex may equal a happy couple, because I would think at some early on part of the relationship the asexual would tell about this "problem" and the partner would come up with what they feel they should do.
You right there is no partner in this world that can met all your feteishes, but such is life. I don't see because Jim doesn't have a big enough dick he should understand and be happy your fucking fred, do you? I mean I have small breast, that doesn't mean its ok if the cheats or wants to cheat because he likes DD. These are problems you have to work out. No on said relationships are easy you have to work them out.
Three somes are a hard thing to explain, because NORMALLY a three some is done between 3 people that have formed this trust. It is a really weird thing (I have been in a three some). I mean if you arn't just the grab the kinda couple that grabs a random person off the street (again I believe something is wrong with the love in your relationshitp), but the kind that finds a friend that is will to be involed, you are dealing with the both kinds of loves at once, but I think I will just let you have this one, because if you involeve you partener in this fully and just use the other as a stimulus I can't really say it isn't for the fullness of your relationship or just feeling good in the moment.
As for people fucking your partner while you watch I find this really worng. So you are saying you can't get off with this person unless they are being fucked by another person? I can't again say you don't love them, but I can say you probably have some underlieing problem you may want to see about addressing, but then again this might be what a asexual or person that can't have sex for whatever reason feels they need to do....so I guess this would be their sex. But that just goes back to a three some, if you are just useing the other person to get off and love your partner and make them feel even better by bringing a toy (I know people as toys....) to bed then you really can't say that it isn't going to work, it just has to stay that way, as in they are a stimulaus not the full thing.
0
I think I served quite well as the Devil's advocate here but if I'm honest I can't really think of any arguments anymore I could throw into the discussion. Naturally, I commend Moses for actually arguing against the points I brought up.
It's very much an emotional thing, thus it's quite hard to discusse it rationally (but that just makes it more challenging and therefore fun)
Of course, if there is an actual proponent of open relationships here I humbly ask you to post, right now it seems like the Fakkuza has a pretty unanimous opinion on this matter.
It's very much an emotional thing, thus it's quite hard to discusse it rationally (but that just makes it more challenging and therefore fun)
Of course, if there is an actual proponent of open relationships here I humbly ask you to post, right now it seems like the Fakkuza has a pretty unanimous opinion on this matter.
0
1st of all, i would like to say incredible debate....(applauds) saibot and moses has both really good points and i do agree with the both of your points.
But one have to ask... True love how do you even define that? There are plenty of definitions to love and just because you are in an open relationship doesn't mean you are not experiencing true love.
True love in another definition is a person that is devoted to their partners. But devoted to their partners and being sexually active is a different thing altogether. The man/woman in a relationship may not want to be tied down and be trapped. Humans are animals, they can't really stay put. Having an open relationship just means that you can have fun and date around with other people. Like saibot previously stated:
That is a very good question.... in a closed relationship one may not be fully satisfied with one's partner sexual technique and may want more 'experienced' technique. They may not be satisfied but they love their partner, this place them in a very difficult situation. If a person is not satisfied, we all know that there are a few odd consequences.....
Here's an example: Say a man is not satisfied with his partner's breast/felatio/etc. then comes a woman that can satisfy him and starts to seduce him. Guess what will happen next..... The man and woman will end up in a love hotel and when his girlfriend/partner/wife/etc. finds out this will become a heated arguement and ultimately ruining their relationship.....
But one have to ask... True love how do you even define that? There are plenty of definitions to love and just because you are in an open relationship doesn't mean you are not experiencing true love.
True love in another definition is a person that is devoted to their partners. But devoted to their partners and being sexually active is a different thing altogether. The man/woman in a relationship may not want to be tied down and be trapped. Humans are animals, they can't really stay put. Having an open relationship just means that you can have fun and date around with other people. Like saibot previously stated:
What about some sexual needs that a certain partner never will be able to satisfy by himself/herself no matter how hard he/she wants it or tries?
That is a very good question.... in a closed relationship one may not be fully satisfied with one's partner sexual technique and may want more 'experienced' technique. They may not be satisfied but they love their partner, this place them in a very difficult situation. If a person is not satisfied, we all know that there are a few odd consequences.....
Here's an example: Say a man is not satisfied with his partner's breast/felatio/etc. then comes a woman that can satisfy him and starts to seduce him. Guess what will happen next..... The man and woman will end up in a love hotel and when his girlfriend/partner/wife/etc. finds out this will become a heated arguement and ultimately ruining their relationship.....