Arizona's Immigration Law: Racism or Security?

Now I am a Texan of Mexican descent, and I cant help but feel that even if these are not the original intention, this will turn into nothing but racial profiling. In a border state like Arizona, the one that will be looked upon will be the hispanic people and they will almost be guaranteed to be harassed by police and border patrol.

What do you think? Please keep this civil, I am not asking for debate but for an intelligent discussion on the issue.

We went over this before.

In a nutshell, all it says is that if you are pulled over (or confronted) for any reason (be it speeding or whatever) then they can ask for proof of residency. Which from what I understand you're supposed to have on you anyway. Visa and so on.

If you provide the right ID, then they WILL NOT do anything regarding race.

Basically it's a more enforced version of an already federal law. Immigrants MUST have their documents on them all the time.

If you are arrested, they will prove your residency before releasing you.

A regular drivers license will suffice (Normally) as proper ID.

Mine is an abridged version. Look at that link for an indepth post.

https://www.fakku.net/viewtopic.php?t=42155&start=8

That will explain it. (Courtesy of Fpod.)

I looked around the forum and couldnt find anything relating to this.

But anyway I can see what youre saying, but it is one thing to ask for an ID when youre pulled over and it is a completely different thing when a police officer can come up to you in the middle of a parking lot and ask for proof of residence or citizenship.

It wasn't in SD, it was up in random for some reason.

Anyway that link should go directly to the post I'm taking about. Fpod (Fiery_Penguin_of_doom) Goes into good detail. Give it a read.

why are white people so racist agianst colored people?(blacks and hispanic's, muslums mostly)

they dont want us here in the usa. they call them job stealers when you think of it i'v never seen a white person doing phyical labor or any kind. they ususally sit thier ass in front of a PC the whole day no wonder many americasn are so fat!
im am also sick of all the racism .why do white people call us mexicans when most of us are not ,so when people call me mexican i tell them i an from el salvador now they say i am MS13 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mara_Salvatrucha)
AND THIS IMMIGRATION LAW is fucked up its racism. leave security of immigration to border patrol , national guard ,etc.

There's so much irony I can slurp it through a fucking straw.

Well, see, the problem is just that, the Feds aren't doing their job and AZ residents got sick and tied of waiting for Federal enforcement that wasn't coming.

See there is truly a conflict here.

I don't think the lawmakers are racist so much as people are willing to point it out. The problem here lies in the fact that they are illegal immigrants. Illegal immigrants are a drain on a country. They do provide cheaper labor, which competes with the labor market, driving down prices. But, the cost of not having illegal immigrants throughout the country would possibly increase the prices of many services these illegals provide. Now, is it racist to stop lawbreakers coming in, where in some cases, they are violent, they are abusing the US welfare/education system. Because Arizona is on a border, don't they have a right to actually stop these people?

Yes, the law unfairly targets Hispanics more than any group. If the police pull over anybody for illegal activity, they are allowed to ask for papers to ensure these people are here legally. Who are they going to ask papers from more? People of Hispanic descent, or people of white/asian descent? It's pretty obvious who they are going to ask and not ask, which makes it just feeeeeel like racism. Which is where the gray area lies in my opinion.

The initial draft of the bill is what I would call racism but, the newest version is within the law. The only real argument is "Do local or state law enforcement have the authority"?

My answer is yes, yes they do. Police exist to enforce the laws regardless of the level of enforcement. Now, if the illegal alien ran from Arizona and into a neighboring state, then the Arizona police don't have jurisdiction but, they are allowed to call the Feds and the police in the other state to "head'em off at the pass".

Also the boarder patrol don't patrol the boarder anymore. They have set up "check points" about sixty miles inside the country. Which means that the boarder is not longer patrolled by the people we pay to do it.

I abhor racism but, I also abhor the arrogance of people thinking they can cut ahead of all the legal immigrants. Then they drain our resources from public schooling to Emergency Room care while not contributing to society more than slave labor.

I'm not a racist, I simply expect people to abide by the laws of my country.

Simple racial profiling-- few will question the immigration status of someone who looks Caucasion. When faced with individuals with non-Caucasian appearances... well, that's when Arizona's skirt catches on fire and this law begins to subvert civil rights laws.

Don't give me BS that this will be random and fair-- that's like saying the people who are stopped and checked at airports are randomly selected, not racially profiled. We all know where those damn terrorists are coming from after all, right? And clearly, everyone from the Middle East bears an uncanny resemblance to one another! /sarcasm

Anybody who looks even slightly non-Caucasian should exercise extreme caution about footwear while in Arizona, whether living there or visiting. Such care is urged because a vocal and prominent supporter of the toxic anti-immigrant measures that were recently signed into law there has said that “illegal immigrants can be recognized from the shoes they wear.” The man was serious.



--> http://globalgeopolitics.net/wordpress/2010/04/28/arizona-opens-doors-wide-to-racial-profiling/

It's hard to take this quote seriously when sources aren't given. For all we know, this could have just come from some extremist that was interviewed right off the street. Not that I'm saying that that person's opinion doesn't matter, but the article makes it sound as if this quote's author was involved with the legislature. (In general, this article is a weak link due to its heavy skew and emotionally charged references.)

I agree that this law is hard to swallow, and that enforcement of it gives a lot of room for officials to abuse it, but a lot of people are over exaggerating its effects. Federal action against illegal immigration has been undeniably slow, and as a result, legislature in Arizona has been passed in the meantime to try and combat the issue. Being such a sensitive issue, there's hardly any way to take action about illegal immigration without stepping on someone's toes.

Everyone's looking at this law with zero faith in Arizona's law enforcement officials... Perhaps I'm being naive and too optimistic, but I like to believe that our government is still of the people, by the people, and for the people.

A quote from your link.

This is irrelevant now as the law has been amended which occurred sometime in May. As of the current version police are forbidden from using race alone as a reason to detain someone. The law makes the immigration status a "secondary offense". In a nutshell, it means they can't pull you over to check your status. They can only check it once they pull you over for something else. If you think the police will profile and then make up some bullshit excuse then we have a legal system for that. If people believe the officer was profiling he'll have to prove that he wasn't.

I know we're on opposing sides in the body politic but please, as one person to another, "read the bill before you get your panties in a knot". The bills title is S.B. 1070. Go ahead and look it up.



The law doesn't do anything about this. Federal law already made it a crime for a legal immigrant to not have their papers on hand. That law existed before you entered middle school. The Arizona law does nothing to change this.



Illegal residence is a federal crime and has been since before this law was even drafted.

Please, I know your an intelligent woman, just read the bill.

In theory, this law isn't so bad. As fpod has pointed out, all the law really does is enforce existing regulations and punish a crime. However, in practicality, I think there are a few problems.

Effectivenss - In general, this kind of immigration law enforcement isn't likely to be particularly effective. Deportation processes are not particularly fast and can be expensive. The best way to attack illegal immigration is to attack the sources from which illegal immigrants are getting employment. If there is less economic opportunity for illegal immigrants, less people will be motivated to come here illegally. More could be done to require businesses make sure they are actually hiring people who are here legally. Yes, there will always be ways to fool the system with counterfeiting, but currently I think there is too much leeway for businesses to not check things out very well, hire someone, and then throw their hands up and say "we didn't know" if their employee gets busted for being illegal.

The law does create conditions that are likely to encourage racial profiling - Let's make this clear: if a police officer wants to pull you over on the road they can. There are enough arcane(and sometimes virtually unfollowable) traffic laws that if an officer really wants to pull you over, they can just follow you for a bit and you will probably do something that they could pull you over for on a technicality. I have been told as much by active officers myself. You hope that police officers don't have a racial agenda, and most don't, but the law allows officers that want to engage in racial profiling a means to make it effective. Let's be honest: most of the illegal immigrants in AZ are hispanic. The law empowers officers who do have a strong anti-illegal immigration leaning or who might harbor resentment against hispanics power to use racial profiling to effectively get people deported.

It's a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. Crack down on companies and they won't hire legal Hispanics as much for fear of getting busted in case one turns out to have a counterfeit. People will scream racism no matter what we do. The politicians wont tackle the problem because they have something to gain. Democrats have votes and Republicans have cheap labor.

You forgot the word, "illegal" in your title.

Love how the "sympathetic" people are taking this as an attack on immigration and the overall Hispanic population, but it's actually just a way to stop illegal aliens. Also, the law only asks authority's to check if they've pulled someone over etc. But people throw a shit fit and take things too far, such as California boycotting Arizona. But I think Arizona's response to that was quite hilarious:

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2010/05/19/20100519arizona-immigration-electricity-regulator-threatens-power-supply-los-angeles.html

I would have to agree. As you say, I don't believe it was their intention to have such a result, but racial profiling will undoubtedly be the eventual result to such an action. I suppose to what extent such a thing becomes present within a community will depend on the community itself (I couldn't really say, I didn't spend too much time in Texas when I was there), but it will most assuredly be there, and be a pretext for racists and the like to increase their activity or embolden their stance on their personal views.

Whether the action ends up hurting or helping remains to be seen, but I'm sure it'll be a bumpy ride regardless. To end this on a bit of a positive note, here's a joke that I recently heard about this topic that made me have a nice laugh, and hopefully you'll have one too:

"If I'm in Arizona and cop pulls me over and says 'Papers' and I say 'Scissors', do I win?"

As i learned from locals durring my trip to AZ last weekend, it's not even about immagrants. it's about the criminals who come in with no intention of staying longer than it takes to commit their crime of choice, and go back across the border.

even some mexicans are in favor of the law in a way. many are pissed that a few bad people are fucking it up for the ones who want to come and do work with no intention of raping or murdering or stealing.

Despite how unpopular I'm going to be for saying this, I actually support the immigration law. Racism or social stereotyping aside, I think the law is just. If you are in the United States illegally you should be deported. It isn't as though it is hard to become a United States citizen.

Check this out for starters: http://www.visaus.com/citizen.html

For a working adult, it's a terribly long and expensive process that is best done with the help of an immigration attorney. If the naturalization route is going to be taken, as is the case for most working adults striving for citizenship, then you must have lived in America for at least 5 years prior to filing papers. To sustain yourself for those 5 years, you're probably going to need a job. If you're going to be working full-time, you're going to need to find a company willing to sink long-term costs into your employment by sponsoring you...

If you give a mouse a cookie...

See where this is going? :S