Could anything ever prove or disprove the existence of a Dei
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So the premise of the question, is that atheist, or agnostic people often claim lack of evidence for the support of God. Theists reject evidence which some parties posit claiming it disproves God. But could there be any event or discovery which either totally eradicates any belief in God, or makes it impossible not to believe in God? (note: I am not referring to any specific God, just a deity of some sort)
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To totally disprove God is impossible in my opinion, since people who want to believe will believe in anything (lets day that crystal pony thingy from borderlands 2).
To prove existence of God is really simple. All we need is for said God to show up, and prove that he is God. Lets say by making second planet whit life near us. Such evidence would not be possible to disprove.
Whatever "miracle" that God would make needs to be on Gianormous scale, so people cant say that God is just alien that got some fancy tech.
And God needs to be present, no prophets doing stuff.
To prove existence of God is really simple. All we need is for said God to show up, and prove that he is God. Lets say by making second planet whit life near us. Such evidence would not be possible to disprove.
Whatever "miracle" that God would make needs to be on Gianormous scale, so people cant say that God is just alien that got some fancy tech.
And God needs to be present, no prophets doing stuff.
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[color=#2e1a6b]"god" is an unfalsifiable hypothesis. It entails that some sort of being exists outside of the observable universe, which nobody can observe. So god cannot be proven nor disproven. we can't even asses the probability of such a being existing or not
But many theists claim that god interacts with the observable universe in certain ways, such as creating of the universe, or healing their grandma's cancer. There's no way to prove that anything is the intervention of god without committing correlation fallacies (correlation does not imply causality). But because we have limited knowledge of the universe, we'll never be able to "prove" there isn't a god that interacts with the universe. We can at least asses the probability of such a god existing or not.
Also, I think every argument for the existence of god is ultimately an argument from ignorance.
But many theists claim that god interacts with the observable universe in certain ways, such as creating of the universe, or healing their grandma's cancer. There's no way to prove that anything is the intervention of god without committing correlation fallacies (correlation does not imply causality). But because we have limited knowledge of the universe, we'll never be able to "prove" there isn't a god that interacts with the universe. We can at least asses the probability of such a god existing or not.
Also, I think every argument for the existence of god is ultimately an argument from ignorance.
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Tad bit of a long post. You've been warned.
To illustrate my personal answer, I'll share a theory me and my sister came across one day (she's catholic, I'm agnostic).
Imagine a hydrogen molecule. High School science taught us that the chemical composition of the most vital material to humans is: H2O; or dihydrogen monoxide. These molecules are bonded at an atomic level and make up water.
However, how do these 3 molecules that have no business with each other come together? Again drawing from old lessons, mutual attraction brings them together to form a bond, thus the water molecule is born.
Keep the latter in mind and consider this: what causes wind? Motion of sea waves which in turn are affected by the Earth's rotation and also by lunar gravity. However, if you put water in a flask and let it sit still, what happens? Short answer is... nothing.
Unless someone drops a heavy object nearby or tilts the flask, the water inside will never move. In an enclosed stable environment it won't ever evaporate or freeze either. For motion to exist, STIMULI is required.
So going even further back, all the way to the big bang (Sheldon FTW!) scientists agree that the coming together of different elements and gases resulted in a catastrophic release of energy that eventually formed our universe. Therein lies the issue.
For the elements and gases to come together, something must have stimulated them. Drawing from one of Steven Hawkings' theories, God cannot exist before the universe was created because time didn't exist before. So nothing can exist if there was never a time fot it to exist. However, no one can answer what stimulated all these elements to bond and expand in the first place.
And here is where my insight ends. For change to exist, something must trigger it. The elements didn't start moving because they suddenly felt like it. Something set in motion the big bang. All these different molecules started bonding to each other and creating energy because something set them in motion. I am certain that my fickle and limited human mind will never understand the force behind this.
That's how I proved to myself that something much more powerful than a human exists. However, we silly humans try to label and categorize it. In my honest opinion, we have no way to truly understand just what lies beyond what we can't measure.
To illustrate my personal answer, I'll share a theory me and my sister came across one day (she's catholic, I'm agnostic).
Imagine a hydrogen molecule. High School science taught us that the chemical composition of the most vital material to humans is: H2O; or dihydrogen monoxide. These molecules are bonded at an atomic level and make up water.
However, how do these 3 molecules that have no business with each other come together? Again drawing from old lessons, mutual attraction brings them together to form a bond, thus the water molecule is born.
Keep the latter in mind and consider this: what causes wind? Motion of sea waves which in turn are affected by the Earth's rotation and also by lunar gravity. However, if you put water in a flask and let it sit still, what happens? Short answer is... nothing.
Unless someone drops a heavy object nearby or tilts the flask, the water inside will never move. In an enclosed stable environment it won't ever evaporate or freeze either. For motion to exist, STIMULI is required.
So going even further back, all the way to the big bang (Sheldon FTW!) scientists agree that the coming together of different elements and gases resulted in a catastrophic release of energy that eventually formed our universe. Therein lies the issue.
For the elements and gases to come together, something must have stimulated them. Drawing from one of Steven Hawkings' theories, God cannot exist before the universe was created because time didn't exist before. So nothing can exist if there was never a time fot it to exist. However, no one can answer what stimulated all these elements to bond and expand in the first place.
And here is where my insight ends. For change to exist, something must trigger it. The elements didn't start moving because they suddenly felt like it. Something set in motion the big bang. All these different molecules started bonding to each other and creating energy because something set them in motion. I am certain that my fickle and limited human mind will never understand the force behind this.
That's how I proved to myself that something much more powerful than a human exists. However, we silly humans try to label and categorize it. In my honest opinion, we have no way to truly understand just what lies beyond what we can't measure.
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VGuy wrote...
Tad bit of a long post. You've been warned.To illustrate my personal answer, I'll share a theory me and my sister came across one day (she's catholic, I'm agnostic).
Imagine a hydrogen molecule. High School science taught us that the chemical composition of the most vital material to humans is: H2O; or dihydrogen monoxide. These molecules are bonded at an atomic level and make up water.
However, how do these 3 molecules that have no business with each other come together? Again drawing from old lessons, mutual attraction brings them together to form a bond, thus the water molecule is born.
Keep the latter in mind and consider this: what causes wind? Motion of sea waves which in turn are affected by the Earth's rotation and also by lunar gravity. However, if you put water in a flask and let it sit still, what happens? Short answer is... nothing.
Unless someone drops a heavy object nearby or tilts the flask, the water inside will never move. In an enclosed stable environment it won't ever evaporate or freeze either. For motion to exist, STIMULI is required.
So going even further back, all the way to the big bang (Sheldon FTW!) scientists agree that the coming together of different elements and gases resulted in a catastrophic release of energy that eventually formed our universe. Therein lies the issue.
For the elements and gases to come together, something must have stimulated them. Drawing from one of Steven Hawkings' theories, God cannot exist before the universe was created because time didn't exist before. So nothing can exist if there was never a time fot it to exist. However, no one can answer what stimulated all these elements to bond and expand in the first place.
And here is where my insight ends. For change to exist, something must trigger it. The elements didn't start moving because they suddenly felt like it. Something set in motion the big bang. All these different molecules started bonding to each other and creating energy because something set them in motion. I am certain that my fickle and limited human mind will never understand the force behind this.
That's how I proved to myself that something much more powerful than a human exists. However, we silly humans try to label and categorize it. In my honest opinion, we have no way to truly understand just what lies beyond what we can't measure.
Yeah this seems about right. But I was wondering if you thought if God was omnipotent or beyond are understanding of the word ? If he where like the interpretations of the three major religions ? Do you think Elder-chin beings exists
Do you think humans will be foolish to think themselves as gods sorta like the fabled king of Babylonian
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Disproving God doesn't seem to be possible because it is an unfalsifiable concept and, as we all know, or at least should know from Philosophy, something that cannot be proven wrong faces a test, not of its strenght, but of its weakness. Still, a few things could be said about disproving God.
Number one: we may find that the Universe can "begin", exist and sustain itself without any supernatural intervention.
Number two: we may look at religious books and realize that they have countless flaws and contradictions. This disproves the existence of the God within that book. If it applies to all religions, we can assume that God is a man-made creation.
Number three: no such thing as a miracle as ever occurred.
Number four: the concept of afterlife is one that devours itself, logically.
To prove the existence of God, however, is quite easy. All we need is that God, whatever god he might be, reveals himself to all mankind at once and show us a clear demonstration of his power, something that couldn't possibly be replicated or explained by our knowledge. Of course, this never happens. All gods in monotheistic religions are very shy and decide only to reveal themselves to single individuals. Very convenient...
Number one: we may find that the Universe can "begin", exist and sustain itself without any supernatural intervention.
Number two: we may look at religious books and realize that they have countless flaws and contradictions. This disproves the existence of the God within that book. If it applies to all religions, we can assume that God is a man-made creation.
Number three: no such thing as a miracle as ever occurred.
Number four: the concept of afterlife is one that devours itself, logically.
To prove the existence of God, however, is quite easy. All we need is that God, whatever god he might be, reveals himself to all mankind at once and show us a clear demonstration of his power, something that couldn't possibly be replicated or explained by our knowledge. Of course, this never happens. All gods in monotheistic religions are very shy and decide only to reveal themselves to single individuals. Very convenient...
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You aren't supposed to prove or disprove the existence of god. Religion and Science are polar opposites, One is Faith and the other is Facts. The idea of proving or disproving the existence of god is pointless because god only exists because of faith, once the faith in god is gone, god will cease to exist whether the idea was proved or disproved.
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deadsx
Lvl 99
One thing I personally believe which may or may not help prove/disprove the existence of God, is contact with an alien race.
Here we have many religions, with different gods. Real or not? hell if I know. The God that most of us know about, created man in the image of himself, or something like that. He also created the universe and thus also created other life other than on our planet. If so the aliens while not necessary having to look like us, should recognize us, since we were created in the image of god.
Also the aliens should have some form of religion that is similar. For example while not needing to be completely the same, they should have some kind Version of the 10 Commandments.
While this theory won't prove/disprove, and is an abstract way of thinking, I believe God wouldn't just create us, and not do some kind of showing to anything other than earth.
Here we have many religions, with different gods. Real or not? hell if I know. The God that most of us know about, created man in the image of himself, or something like that. He also created the universe and thus also created other life other than on our planet. If so the aliens while not necessary having to look like us, should recognize us, since we were created in the image of god.
Also the aliens should have some form of religion that is similar. For example while not needing to be completely the same, they should have some kind Version of the 10 Commandments.
While this theory won't prove/disprove, and is an abstract way of thinking, I believe God wouldn't just create us, and not do some kind of showing to anything other than earth.
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deadsx wrote...
One thing I personally believe which may or may not help prove/disprove the existence of God, is contact with an alien race.Here we have many religions, with different gods. Real or not? hell if I know. The God that most of us know about, created man in the image of himself, or something like that. He also created the universe and thus also created other life other than on our planet. If so the aliens while not necessary having to look like us, should recognize us, since we were created in the image of god.
Also the aliens should have some form of religion that is similar. For example while not needing to be completely the same, they should have some kind Version of the 10 Commandments.
While this theory won't prove/disprove, and is an abstract way of thinking, I believe God wouldn't just create us, and not do some kind of showing to anything other than earth.
If they did say that humans were created in the image of God etc etc and did not look human/humanoid then would this be one more step in actually having a solid case in the existence of God himself ?
Also nothing can be created from nothing. Spontaneous combustion might exists but spontaneous life is bullshit.
I also have a theory that if Humans combined there brain power in the belief of a type of God in the past or some alternate universe before this one came and some how came into exsistance because of human desire. Then it would sorta make sense,however I would feel sorry for any God that would come into existence from the desire/manipulation of reality by humans who as you all know are greedy,mean desire power and have the greatest inflated ego out of any specie's that has probably existed in the history of existence. Would not be surprised if this is true nor would be surprised if said being wanted to rage war on everything I.E sentient life by bring there respective Gods to reality and wiping there creators out.
Anyone else think this would be possible or what ?
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I will make clear first that I'm atheist.
"God" has existed since a long time before, but there is no proof to prove it. Aztecs, mayans, incas, indians, chinese, indians, etc. They didn't had just one god, if ypu find their ancient texts, you will find more than 10 deities in every religion. Christianity was created people after a human died, thus people make him a deitie. A question "what exactly makes a deity, a deity?", answer putting your hopes, thoughts and dreams in it (may sound cheesy but true). Old deities demostrated their power to the people after the people shiwed him how much trust they put in their gods.
I'm making an experiment right now, that is creating a god, if I succeed in some way I'll find my answers.
"God" has existed since a long time before, but there is no proof to prove it. Aztecs, mayans, incas, indians, chinese, indians, etc. They didn't had just one god, if ypu find their ancient texts, you will find more than 10 deities in every religion. Christianity was created people after a human died, thus people make him a deitie. A question "what exactly makes a deity, a deity?", answer putting your hopes, thoughts and dreams in it (may sound cheesy but true). Old deities demostrated their power to the people after the people shiwed him how much trust they put in their gods.
I'm making an experiment right now, that is creating a god, if I succeed in some way I'll find my answers.
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Where I live, in Quebec (Canada), it's in our history that religion abused his authority on us, therefore controlling our life and ruining/killing lots of persons. It is almost in our culture to disapprove religion.
However, my personal opinion is that most young people today don't see the word "God" in the right way, always saying "Duh it's fucking stupid that a huge bearded guy made the world with two humans".
In my opinion, I refer to "God" as energy, which is why I (currently) believe in him. The world didn't appear BAM one day, out of nowhere, it came out of some energy, which is God to me. After this, what brings life into us (or our soul) is, to me, this energy called God. It's not a man or an object, it's pure energy.
I'm not thinking this in a science way (since I'm not the best in science, nor have I studied it), but more like in a Faith way..? '-'
However, my personal opinion is that most young people today don't see the word "God" in the right way, always saying "Duh it's fucking stupid that a huge bearded guy made the world with two humans".
In my opinion, I refer to "God" as energy, which is why I (currently) believe in him. The world didn't appear BAM one day, out of nowhere, it came out of some energy, which is God to me. After this, what brings life into us (or our soul) is, to me, this energy called God. It's not a man or an object, it's pure energy.
I'm not thinking this in a science way (since I'm not the best in science, nor have I studied it), but more like in a Faith way..? '-'
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This is a loaded question. If you say I believe in a god or gods, then people will ask for proof. If you believe in science, than science is your god, and people will ask you for proof.
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likeaboss1331 wrote...
This is a loaded question. If you say I believe in a god or gods, then people will ask for proof. If you believe in science, than science is your god, and people will ask you for proof.Science is not God nor will it eve be. Those who believe such things are foolish and should be spanked
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But could there be any event or discovery which either totally eradicates any belief in God, or makes it impossible not to believe in God?
No.
Your question suggests that we would have to find evidence on something that doesn't exist. If it never existed then how could it possibly leave proof of its nonexistence? Any kind of secondary proof can't be trusted without first proving that their is primary evidence and that it's real.
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Prove or disprove, real or fake.
Answer these please. Just some questions I made up on the spot.
Think of what nothing is. What do you see?
Think of what empty is. What do you see?
Think of what everything is. What do you see?
Think of what God is. What do you see?
Instead of using science, please remind yourselves that most arguments towards a higher being involving science have been considered false because of theories that counteract with the argument. Remember, theories are supported. Not proven, therefore we can not use them as a basis. Ex) Big Bang.
Imagine how vast, colorful and lustrous the universe is. Hundreds of billions of galaxies. Hundreds of trillions of stars. But yet, we as a population have yet to find an end, or a 100% truthful beginning. Can we even trust our theory of a beginning? How do we know that there wasn't a beginning before the Big Bang? Are we supposed to believe the things supported by the scientists and the geniuses before us? How exactly do we understand or grasp the meaning of a superior being?
And that concludes my rant. Feel free to yell at me or call me a dick. I don't mind. I didn't mean to sound like one, but yeah. Just my beliefs.
Answer these please. Just some questions I made up on the spot.
Think of what nothing is. What do you see?
Think of what empty is. What do you see?
Think of what everything is. What do you see?
Think of what God is. What do you see?
Instead of using science, please remind yourselves that most arguments towards a higher being involving science have been considered false because of theories that counteract with the argument. Remember, theories are supported. Not proven, therefore we can not use them as a basis. Ex) Big Bang.
Imagine how vast, colorful and lustrous the universe is. Hundreds of billions of galaxies. Hundreds of trillions of stars. But yet, we as a population have yet to find an end, or a 100% truthful beginning. Can we even trust our theory of a beginning? How do we know that there wasn't a beginning before the Big Bang? Are we supposed to believe the things supported by the scientists and the geniuses before us? How exactly do we understand or grasp the meaning of a superior being?
And that concludes my rant. Feel free to yell at me or call me a dick. I don't mind. I didn't mean to sound like one, but yeah. Just my beliefs.
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There really is nothing but lack of proof for a God or Godess it's just something write-in 1,000 of years ago so if I write something put it somewhere and it says
"Talking hats ruled the world." and some discovers it in 2,000 years are they going to believe that (religion) or say there's no proof (atheist).
#longassquote
"Talking hats ruled the world." and some discovers it in 2,000 years are they going to believe that (religion) or say there's no proof (atheist).
#longassquote
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Douglas Adams wrote...
The Babel fish is small, yellow and leech-like, and probably the oddest thing in the Universe. It feeds on brainwave energy received not from its own carrier but from those around it. It absorbs all unconscious mental frequencies from this brainwave energy to nourish itself with. It then excretes into the mind of its carrier a telepathic matrix formed by combining the conscious thought frequencies with the nerve signals picked up from the speech centres of the brain which has supplied them. The practical upshot of all this is that if you stick a Babel fish in your ear you can instantly understand anything said to you in any form of language. The speech patterns you actually hear decode the brainwave matrix which has been fed into your mind by your Babel fish. Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen it to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God. The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing." "But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED." "Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic. "Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets killed on the next zebra crossing. Obviously...
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I would say the concept of god is hard to disprove because it can be as vague as you want it to be. However a lot of popular specifics of god can often be disproven with logic.
For instance, it is popular for a god to be. 1. Almight, 2. All knowing and 3. All Good.
The 3 however logically contradict eachother and thus are disproven.
For instance, it is popular for a god to be. 1. Almight, 2. All knowing and 3. All Good.
The 3 however logically contradict eachother and thus are disproven.
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It's not possible to disprove a God, because it's one of those things that could appear at any moment. Just like how it's impossible to disprove that you are in the matrix, or that humans are actually from Mars and not from Earth.
However the only way to prove a God exists is if he/she/it appears. Otherwise it's just pure speculation or "faith" as people like to call it.
However the only way to prove a God exists is if he/she/it appears. Otherwise it's just pure speculation or "faith" as people like to call it.
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First of all, your question is too broad to have a yes or no answer. You need to be more specific as to what sort of definition you are using for what a deity is, because there are so many interpretations and arguments for and against each. I'll try to answer the question for a few interpretations though, since you seem genuinely curious rather than inflammatory.
Some people believe that a deity is an all powerful/ or supernaturally powerful being that has direct influence upon the physical world. These are the groups that believe in prayer and that there is a being to punish the wicked and reward the good and so forth. In order to conclusively disprove such a deity, one would need to create a physical model of the universe that accounts for and explains every event and possible event, and then prove that all events in history and all future events correspond perfectly to this order and that no unnatural influence is present or possible.
Such a task is obviously impossible, due to our inability to observe events that have happened in the far past and events which are yet to happen and so the existence cannot be 100% discounted.
On the topic of proof, though, one would need evidence of events so miraculous that they are entirely impossible (literally 0% chance) as a natural occurence. However even with such evidence it may just mean that our model of understanding the universe was flawed and if that model can be readjusted to fit the new event then the existence of a supernatural entity would still remain unproven.
So it's pretty much impossible to prove of disprove the existence of ANY supernatural entity which directly alters the physical universe with 100% conclusiveness. But what about other interpretations of what it means to be a god?
Some beliefs incorporate a deity as an observer of sorts who watches and weighs but never interferes. Such a belief is even more impossible to prove/disprove (is that even something you can say? "more impossible"?) because there is no way of interacting with such an entity if it maintains separation with our physical universe.
In other interpretations the universe itself, or things like energy are interpreted as a sort of deity. In these interpretations the deity can be said to obviously exist, if one believes in our physical reality, but at this point it becomes more of a debate upon whether or not such things should be viewed in such a light, rather than a debate on their existence, although some would even argue about their existence. That itself, I think, shows the difficulty of arriving at any sort of conclusive 100% certain proof about ANYTHING, let alone something as mercurial as one's interpretation of the supernatural.
So then it becomes a question of "Is it possible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt" and this is where it gets interesting, because this is where faith stems from. Some people have a different threshold of what doubt and faith mean to them, and so to some people there IS a kind of certainty of belief. Some people, for example, have events occur around them that they choose to interpret as divine intervention or action, and are afterwards convinced personally in such an existence.
In the end there's really no answer, hence the many different religions you see in the world, and the many sections within each faith. The very notion of proving or disproving another's beliefs seems to me an arrogant notion, as many of us don't even know what to believe in our own lives, let alone have enough certainty to try to tell someone else that they are wrong to think what they think about such a multi-faceted subject with so many interpretations. I myself used to think I needed to convince people that religion was ignorant. I think this stemmed from self-righteousness, anonymity, and the fact I had never been able to have such arguments in my life before discovering online communities. It was a kind of ego boost to have someone agree with me that my group of thinkers was superior to another, but it was stemming from insecurity and immaturity.
Anyway, I think I'm rambling now, but I hope I managed to answer your question.
First of all, your question is too broad to have a yes or no answer. You need to be more specific as to what sort of definition you are using for what a deity is, because there are so many interpretations and arguments for and against each. I'll try to answer the question for a few interpretations though, since you seem genuinely curious rather than inflammatory.
Some people believe that a deity is an all powerful/ or supernaturally powerful being that has direct influence upon the physical world. These are the groups that believe in prayer and that there is a being to punish the wicked and reward the good and so forth. In order to conclusively disprove such a deity, one would need to create a physical model of the universe that accounts for and explains every event and possible event, and then prove that all events in history and all future events correspond perfectly to this order and that no unnatural influence is present or possible.
Such a task is obviously impossible, due to our inability to observe events that have happened in the far past and events which are yet to happen and so the existence cannot be 100% discounted.
On the topic of proof, though, one would need evidence of events so miraculous that they are entirely impossible (literally 0% chance) as a natural occurence. However even with such evidence it may just mean that our model of understanding the universe was flawed and if that model can be readjusted to fit the new event then the existence of a supernatural entity would still remain unproven.
So it's pretty much impossible to prove of disprove the existence of ANY supernatural entity which directly alters the physical universe with 100% conclusiveness. But what about other interpretations of what it means to be a god?
Some beliefs incorporate a deity as an observer of sorts who watches and weighs but never interferes. Such a belief is even more impossible to prove/disprove (is that even something you can say? "more impossible"?) because there is no way of interacting with such an entity if it maintains separation with our physical universe.
In other interpretations the universe itself, or things like energy are interpreted as a sort of deity. In these interpretations the deity can be said to obviously exist, if one believes in our physical reality, but at this point it becomes more of a debate upon whether or not such things should be viewed in such a light, rather than a debate on their existence, although some would even argue about their existence. That itself, I think, shows the difficulty of arriving at any sort of conclusive 100% certain proof about ANYTHING, let alone something as mercurial as one's interpretation of the supernatural.
So then it becomes a question of "Is it possible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt" and this is where it gets interesting, because this is where faith stems from. Some people have a different threshold of what doubt and faith mean to them, and so to some people there IS a kind of certainty of belief. Some people, for example, have events occur around them that they choose to interpret as divine intervention or action, and are afterwards convinced personally in such an existence.
In the end there's really no answer, hence the many different religions you see in the world, and the many sections within each faith. The very notion of proving or disproving another's beliefs seems to me an arrogant notion, as many of us don't even know what to believe in our own lives, let alone have enough certainty to try to tell someone else that they are wrong to think what they think about such a multi-faceted subject with so many interpretations. I myself used to think I needed to convince people that religion was ignorant. I think this stemmed from self-righteousness, anonymity, and the fact I had never been able to have such arguments in my life before discovering online communities. It was a kind of ego boost to have someone agree with me that my group of thinkers was superior to another, but it was stemming from insecurity and immaturity.
Anyway, I think I'm rambling now, but I hope I managed to answer your question.