"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" unconstitutional!
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It seems to me that few people realize that the BIGGER issue here is society ITSELF.
Gays are not terribly liked in society, it's just a fact.
More so in the army, where the majority of people are more socially conservative in their views.
You are fighting in groups essentially in the field, a team that you will entrust your life in. If you are gay - you will not be treated as you should in a good portion of cases.
I fully support gays and their rights, don't get me wrong - but in the military, expect to be treated differently. When your life depends on teamwork and you are the outcast of the group due to your sexuality, it's not fun.
And just as well - having relationships formed between military is NOT good either.
Gays are not terribly liked in society, it's just a fact.
More so in the army, where the majority of people are more socially conservative in their views.
You are fighting in groups essentially in the field, a team that you will entrust your life in. If you are gay - you will not be treated as you should in a good portion of cases.
I fully support gays and their rights, don't get me wrong - but in the military, expect to be treated differently. When your life depends on teamwork and you are the outcast of the group due to your sexuality, it's not fun.
And just as well - having relationships formed between military is NOT good either.
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40715888/ns/politics-capitol_hill/
The senate has voted to finally repeal DADT, although it won't take effect immediately. WOOT!
The senate has voted to finally repeal DADT, although it won't take effect immediately. WOOT!
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This is more about intolerance than them thinking that all homosexuals are sex crazed horn dogs(I hope).
I mean, if you want to put your life on the line for your country than the last thing that should stop you is your orientation.
Someday, in the future, people will get passed this ignorant roadblock.
I mean, if you want to put your life on the line for your country than the last thing that should stop you is your orientation.
Someday, in the future, people will get passed this ignorant roadblock.
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animefreak_usa
Child of Samael
Now you can be gay in the military. now if i could tell my parent's their son is bi.
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Mr.Shaggnificent wrote...
A completely volunteer military should not be too picky about who they accept. No, it should be you don't want ruffians being accepted into your army ie. criminals or those with criminal history.
I think it's more of a cohesion problem than that the soldiers are homosexual.
As much as we all like the world to be perfect and accepting of gays, it's not going to happen overnight or because a law is made.
Problems like these take a long time to eventually be accepted. Ever wondered how long it took for people to finally accept the world is round not flat?
Back then if you said the world wasn't flat the church would send The Inquisition to 'reform' you.
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I don't think anyone in the heat of battle, getting shot at, having grenades, rocket propelled grenades and mortars fired at them and dealing with the constant possibility of death gives a shit whether or not the man next to him has a sexual preference he doesn't agree with. I could be wrong, but after serving a three year term in Afghanistan it didn't even cross my mind once, even after hearing a rumor that my spotter preferred men during the last year of my term.
The only thing you give a shit about at that moment in time is taking down your enemy before he takes down you and completing the task you were assigned. It certainly isn't worrying about whether or not your brother in arms is going to stick it in you half-way through the process of taking down your target(s) and completing your mission.
The fact is, when you go into battle, you share something unbelievably greater with those around you. You're ready to leave them behind if it means completing your mission or if it's already too late knowing that they'll understand, you're ready to cover their backs and you trust them to do the same. You go into the operation ready to die with and for your comrades. There is no greater bond any person can share with another from my perspective.
"Don't ask, don't tell." isn't as bullshit as it sounds, it eases relations during the training period for new recruits until certain a point because having everyone know early on creates tension. After that certain point however; you grow connected with the people in your squad and that isn't even a matter of discussion especially after you've been in real combat for the first time. Even when there are complete assholes or bitches on your team that tend to treat you poorly, all hateful and negative emotion towards them completely disappears when you begin your operation. It has to, because if it doesn't that puts the entire operation and more yet, the lives of every single person in your squad at risk. That is exactly what we were taught and I'm sure it still continues to be ingrained or otherwise beat into you during and after combat training.
I think the military may be going a little too far with it, investigating and all that, because I haven't heard of a single case where there was actually a problem with someone's sexual preference when I served my three year term but; I also don't think it's a great idea to openly come out and tell everyone your sexual preference either, even if you're straight.
This rule has a good use and should only go as far as it's name:
Don't ask, don't tell.
The only thing you give a shit about at that moment in time is taking down your enemy before he takes down you and completing the task you were assigned. It certainly isn't worrying about whether or not your brother in arms is going to stick it in you half-way through the process of taking down your target(s) and completing your mission.
The fact is, when you go into battle, you share something unbelievably greater with those around you. You're ready to leave them behind if it means completing your mission or if it's already too late knowing that they'll understand, you're ready to cover their backs and you trust them to do the same. You go into the operation ready to die with and for your comrades. There is no greater bond any person can share with another from my perspective.
"Don't ask, don't tell." isn't as bullshit as it sounds, it eases relations during the training period for new recruits until certain a point because having everyone know early on creates tension. After that certain point however; you grow connected with the people in your squad and that isn't even a matter of discussion especially after you've been in real combat for the first time. Even when there are complete assholes or bitches on your team that tend to treat you poorly, all hateful and negative emotion towards them completely disappears when you begin your operation. It has to, because if it doesn't that puts the entire operation and more yet, the lives of every single person in your squad at risk. That is exactly what we were taught and I'm sure it still continues to be ingrained or otherwise beat into you during and after combat training.
I think the military may be going a little too far with it, investigating and all that, because I haven't heard of a single case where there was actually a problem with someone's sexual preference when I served my three year term but; I also don't think it's a great idea to openly come out and tell everyone your sexual preference either, even if you're straight.
This rule has a good use and should only go as far as it's name:
Don't ask, don't tell.
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Navikt wrote...
I don't think anyone in the heat of battle, getting shot at, having grenades, rocket propelled grenades and mortars fired at them and dealing with the constant possibility of death gives a shit whether or not the man next to him has a sexual preference he doesn't agree with. I could be wrong, but after serving a three year term in Afghanistan it didn't even cross my mind once, even after hearing a rumor that my spotter preferred men during the last year of my term.The only thing you give a shit about at that moment in time is taking down your enemy before he takes down you and completing the task you were assigned. It certainly isn't worrying about whether or not your brother in arms is going to stick it in you half-way through the process of taking down your target(s) and completing your mission.
The fact is, when you go into battle, you share something unbelievably greater with those around you. You're ready to leave them behind if it means completing your mission or if it's already too late knowing that they'll understand, you're ready to cover their backs and you trust them to do the same. You go into the operation ready to die with and for your comrades. There is no greater bond any person can share with another from my perspective.
"Don't ask, don't tell." isn't as bullshit as it sounds, it eases relations during the training period for new recruits until certain a point because having everyone know early on creates tension. After that certain point however; you grow connected with the people in your squad and that isn't even a matter of discussion especially after you've been in real combat for the first time. Even when there are complete assholes or bitches on your team that tend to treat you poorly, all hateful and negative emotion towards them completely disappears when you begin your operation. It has to, because if it doesn't that puts the entire operation and more yet, the lives of every single person in your squad at risk. That is exactly what we were taught and I'm sure it still continues to be ingrained or otherwise beat into you during and after combat training.
I think the military may be going a little too far with it, investigating and all that, because I haven't heard of a single case where there was actually a problem with someone's sexual preference when I served my three year term but; I also don't think it's a great idea to openly come out and tell everyone your sexual preference either, even if you're straight.
This rule has a good use and should only go as far as it's name:
Don't ask, don't tell.
I have to agree with this. I'm currently am serving in the marines and I don't like the fact that they can now be open they are gay. In battle it obviously doesn't matter what your preference is. you would give your life to save a fellow marine. but while garrisoned it could make you feel uncomfortable knowing that your roommate or someone you are in close contact with daily is gay. I know that this is going to hurt the war effort. We are now going to have to come up with and change old policy's. If you can have two gay guys sharing a room then how come you cant have a female and a male share a room?, a lot of new cases of sexual harassment will start to show up, If they are stationed in a state that allows gay marriage two guys would be able to get married and live out in town(Even nongays who want to not live in the barracks or want a party house would do this) meaning the military will lose even more money for BAH, And for group showers you would have to what let non gays shower then have a time for gays to shower?. I think that with any job military or not your preference does not need to be known by your coworkers.
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Maybe I just didn't drink the kool-aid when I was in the army, but I'm glad that we got rid of DADT. The guys I served with talked about personal shit constantly, and were always talking about sex. Don't you think it would make a gay soldier a little uncomfortable to have to either just avoid conversations like that with friends entirely or have to make things up? Also, theres no way in nine hells that a gay soldier could get married and not have problems. They'd lose their job as soon as -anyone- found out. Are they not supposed to have friends? Not have strong relationships with anyone? I call bullshit. Also, about the showers, do you think that a gay guy is just going to be walking around in the showers trying to fuck their buddy? Get real. Damn, I don't miss the military.
Also, I find it really amusing that so many people posting here are talking about how gays should continue to not be accepted...but we're on a fucking hentai site that most people (especially here in the US) would look down on you for going on, not accept you in some way. Just sayin'.
Also, I find it really amusing that so many people posting here are talking about how gays should continue to not be accepted...but we're on a fucking hentai site that most people (especially here in the US) would look down on you for going on, not accept you in some way. Just sayin'.
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Malik_USMC wrote...
Navikt wrote...
I don't think anyone in the heat of battle, getting shot at, having grenades, rocket propelled grenades and mortars fired at them and dealing with the constant possibility of death gives a shit whether or not the man next to him has a sexual preference he doesn't agree with. I could be wrong, but after serving a three year term in Afghanistan it didn't even cross my mind once, even after hearing a rumor that my spotter preferred men during the last year of my term.The only thing you give a shit about at that moment in time is taking down your enemy before he takes down you and completing the task you were assigned. It certainly isn't worrying about whether or not your brother in arms is going to stick it in you half-way through the process of taking down your target(s) and completing your mission.
The fact is, when you go into battle, you share something unbelievably greater with those around you. You're ready to leave them behind if it means completing your mission or if it's already too late knowing that they'll understand, you're ready to cover their backs and you trust them to do the same. You go into the operation ready to die with and for your comrades. There is no greater bond any person can share with another from my perspective.
"Don't ask, don't tell." isn't as bullshit as it sounds, it eases relations during the training period for new recruits until certain a point because having everyone know early on creates tension. After that certain point however; you grow connected with the people in your squad and that isn't even a matter of discussion especially after you've been in real combat for the first time. Even when there are complete assholes or bitches on your team that tend to treat you poorly, all hateful and negative emotion towards them completely disappears when you begin your operation. It has to, because if it doesn't that puts the entire operation and more yet, the lives of every single person in your squad at risk. That is exactly what we were taught and I'm sure it still continues to be ingrained or otherwise beat into you during and after combat training.
I think the military may be going a little too far with it, investigating and all that, because I haven't heard of a single case where there was actually a problem with someone's sexual preference when I served my three year term but; I also don't think it's a great idea to openly come out and tell everyone your sexual preference either, even if you're straight.
This rule has a good use and should only go as far as it's name:
Don't ask, don't tell.
I have to agree with this. I'm currently am serving in the marines and I don't like the fact that they can now be open they are gay. In battle it obviously doesn't matter what your preference is. you would give your life to save a fellow marine. but while garrisoned it could make you feel uncomfortable knowing that your roommate or someone you are in close contact with daily is gay. I know that this is going to hurt the war effort. We are now going to have to come up with and change old policy's. If you can have two gay guys sharing a room then how come you cant have a female and a male share a room?, a lot of new cases of sexual harassment will start to show up, If they are stationed in a state that allows gay marriage two guys would be able to get married and live out in town(Even nongays who want to not live in the barracks or want a party house would do this) meaning the military will lose even more money for BAH, And for group showers you would have to what let non gays shower then have a time for gays to shower?. I think that with any job military or not your preference does not need to be known by your coworkers.
It's true that your personal preference when it comes to sex do not need to be reveled. But, you should not be stopped from telling them if you feel the need. DADT will get you kicked out of the army if you let it slip that you would love to "tap Johny Depp's ass." This is a violation of the first amendment, and it should not be stood for. It's unfair to expect gays to lie, and hide their inner nature, for the sake of some silly policy. It puts them under unneeded stress, and God knows being the army is stressful enough.
You also mention that it would be awkward to shower with gays.
Protip: They're still gay, you just don't know it. You also seem to be under the assumption that gay men, want every man available. Wrong. Just because you're gay doesn't mean you're attracted to every man alive. Living in brackets and taking showers together should not be a problem. You said that "a lot of new cases of sexual harassment will start to show up." Like hell! Talk about a stupid statement. You think that just because gays are "officially" let into the army sexual harassment will increase? Why would that be? Just because you can now tell your best buddies that you're gay, your going to go around feeling people up? Yeah right!
-Edit-
I believe I misunderstood your post. I may have "jumped the gun," so to speak. I'm a bit hopped up on sugar right now. Forgive me. I'll keep this up for "the record."
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Exactly, the military isn't a place for personal drama, it isn't a place to talk about your problems or your sexual preferences. I don't believe gays need to lie and make something up when the topic of women comes about, but they don't have to say "Oh, well I don't think X is hot because I'm homosexual." either. wait until a new topic of discussion comes around and join in then. I'm not saying the military should be devoid of counselling services, but when at the garrison, that's your own shit that you have to deal with.
Besides, everyone serving knows that sexual tension is released in the latrine.
Besides, everyone serving knows that sexual tension is released in the latrine.
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Cormac wrote...
Malik_USMC wrote...
Navikt wrote...
I don't think anyone in the heat of battle, getting shot at, having grenades, rocket propelled grenades and mortars fired at them and dealing with the constant possibility of death gives a shit whether or not the man next to him has a sexual preference he doesn't agree with. I could be wrong, but after serving a three year term in Afghanistan it didn't even cross my mind once, even after hearing a rumor that my spotter preferred men during the last year of my term.The only thing you give a shit about at that moment in time is taking down your enemy before he takes down you and completing the task you were assigned. It certainly isn't worrying about whether or not your brother in arms is going to stick it in you half-way through the process of taking down your target(s) and completing your mission.
The fact is, when you go into battle, you share something unbelievably greater with those around you. You're ready to leave them behind if it means completing your mission or if it's already too late knowing that they'll understand, you're ready to cover their backs and you trust them to do the same. You go into the operation ready to die with and for your comrades. There is no greater bond any person can share with another from my perspective.
"Don't ask, don't tell." isn't as bullshit as it sounds, it eases relations during the training period for new recruits until certain a point because having everyone know early on creates tension. After that certain point however; you grow connected with the people in your squad and that isn't even a matter of discussion especially after you've been in real combat for the first time. Even when there are complete assholes or bitches on your team that tend to treat you poorly, all hateful and negative emotion towards them completely disappears when you begin your operation. It has to, because if it doesn't that puts the entire operation and more yet, the lives of every single person in your squad at risk. That is exactly what we were taught and I'm sure it still continues to be ingrained or otherwise beat into you during and after combat training.
I think the military may be going a little too far with it, investigating and all that, because I haven't heard of a single case where there was actually a problem with someone's sexual preference when I served my three year term but; I also don't think it's a great idea to openly come out and tell everyone your sexual preference either, even if you're straight.
This rule has a good use and should only go as far as it's name:
Don't ask, don't tell.
I have to agree with this. I'm currently am serving in the marines and I don't like the fact that they can now be open they are gay. In battle it obviously doesn't matter what your preference is. you would give your life to save a fellow marine. but while garrisoned it could make you feel uncomfortable knowing that your roommate or someone you are in close contact with daily is gay. I know that this is going to hurt the war effort. We are now going to have to come up with and change old policy's. If you can have two gay guys sharing a room then how come you cant have a female and a male share a room?, a lot of new cases of sexual harassment will start to show up, If they are stationed in a state that allows gay marriage two guys would be able to get married and live out in town(Even nongays who want to not live in the barracks or want a party house would do this) meaning the military will lose even more money for BAH, And for group showers you would have to what let non gays shower then have a time for gays to shower?. I think that with any job military or not your preference does not need to be known by your coworkers.
It's true that your personal preference when it comes to sex do not need to be reveled. But, you should not be stopped from telling them if you feel the need. DADT will get you kicked out of the army if you let it slip that you would love to "tap Johny Depp's ass." This is a violation of the first amendment, and it should not be stood for. It's unfair to expect gays to lie, and hide their inner nature, for the sake of some silly policy. It puts them under unneeded stress, and God knows being the army is stressful enough.
You also mention that it would be awkward to shower with gays.
Protip: They're still gay, you just don't know it. You also seem to be under the assumption that gay men, want every man available. Wrong. Just because you're gay doesn't mean you're attracted to every man alive. Living in brackets and taking showers together should not be a problem. You said that "a lot of new cases of sexual harassment will start to show up." Like hell! Talk about a stupid statement. You think that just because gays are "officially" let into the army sexual harassment will increase? Why would that be? Just because you can now tell your best buddies that you're gay, your going to go around feeling people up? Yeah right!
With the showers I didn't mean there would be rapes in the shower but wouldn't it have to change? Men and Woman don't shower together not all guys are attracted to all girls either. There is also the fact that some people wouldn't like the fact that theirs a chance that someone else in the shower with you is getting turned on by you.
With the sexual harassment cases. We fuck around a lot and play jokes on each other all the time sometimes they end up being pretty gay but funny. Now if a Gay person you are not very close to or just met does a prank on you and its a gay one you could take it the wrong way and call sexual harassment. (I'll use my own personal experience for this, first day i checked into my current unit within 20 min I saw another mans ass, had my dick grabbed and was told I look good then grabbed and told I smell good.) I had no problem with this because I thought it was funny. But now if we do this to a new check-in he might take offense and think one of us is gay or he may be gay and call harassment. Even If no one involved is gay I'm not saying this would happen all the time but there will be cases and then that is one less marine that can be killing baddies.
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I've had a few friends go into the military and even 1 that was sent to Iraq when the conflict broke out out there.
What they told me was not that they had a problem with gays but that some of the men that were homosexual that they met treated them like they had treated women, even going as far as to make jokes right in front of them.
After a while in 1 of my friends groups it became seriously dangerous to be gay and be fighting next to your fellow soldiers. so for me I think just for safety reasons most homosexuals should probably shy away from telling anyone in the military that their gay.
What they told me was not that they had a problem with gays but that some of the men that were homosexual that they met treated them like they had treated women, even going as far as to make jokes right in front of them.
After a while in 1 of my friends groups it became seriously dangerous to be gay and be fighting next to your fellow soldiers. so for me I think just for safety reasons most homosexuals should probably shy away from telling anyone in the military that their gay.
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diget wrote...
I've had a few friends go into the military and even 1 that was sent to Iraq when the conflict broke out out there. What they told me was not that they had a problem with gays but that some of the men that were homosexual that they met treated them like they had treated women, even going as far as to make jokes right in front of them.
After a while in 1 of my friends groups it became seriously dangerous to be gay and be fighting next to your fellow soldiers. so for me I think just for safety reasons most homosexuals should probably shy away from telling anyone in the military that their gay.
Being gay is not a safety hazard. How on earth could anyone think that? Everyone in the army should be treated according to rank and experience. Not according to there race, sex, or sexual orientation.
Oh, by that way Malik, I'm going to reply to your post soon, been busy/lazy of late.
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Cormac wrote...
Being gay is not a safety hazard. How on earth could anyone think that? Everyone in the army should be treated according to rank and experience. Not according to there race, sex, or sexual orientation.
Thing is when your around a bunch of guys who tend to not like homosexuality in the military all the sudden it become a safety hazard, not a hazard for every one else but for the homosexual (his/herself.)
I agree with you, in the army they should treat people according to rank and experience but try telling that to the guy who has to use the same shower as the gay guy. This tends to arouse strong feeling in those who are in the military.
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You know it's funny how everyone puts so much stock into what a person is. If I'm in the heat of battle, the only thing I care about my fellow platoon members is if they'll have my back.
Personally, I don't like the military, what it's about these days and what they're doing these days, but if homosexuals are willing to put their life on the line to serve their country, then what's the fucking problem?!
However, I think the act of 'don't ask don't tell' should be abolished and just let gays and lesbians join the military outright. Enough of this smoke and mirrors bullshit
Personally, I don't like the military, what it's about these days and what they're doing these days, but if homosexuals are willing to put their life on the line to serve their country, then what's the fucking problem?!
However, I think the act of 'don't ask don't tell' should be abolished and just let gays and lesbians join the military outright. Enough of this smoke and mirrors bullshit
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diget wrote...
Cormac wrote...
Being gay is not a safety hazard. How on earth could anyone think that? Everyone in the army should be treated according to rank and experience. Not according to there race, sex, or sexual orientation.
Thing is when your around a bunch of guys who tend to not like homosexuality in the military all the sudden it become a safety hazard, not a hazard for every one else but for the homosexual (his/herself.)
It's rather sad that someone in the army should be worried about being hurt be their own side just because they like the opposite sex.
diget wrote...
I agree with you, in the army they should treat people according to rank and experience but try telling that to the guy who has to use the same shower as the gay guy. This tends to arouse strong feeling in those who are in the military. There are still going to be gay guys in the showers, they just won't be able to tell you they're gay. I get that many people find that uncomfortable, I certainly don't like showering with anyone, gay or not. But they need to get over it. It's not like they can't make showers more "private" so to speak. Install doors and such.
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Cormac wrote...
diget wrote...
Cormac wrote...
Being gay is not a safety hazard. How on earth could anyone think that? Everyone in the army should be treated according to rank and experience. Not according to there race, sex, or sexual orientation.
Thing is when your around a bunch of guys who tend to not like homosexuality in the military all the sudden it become a safety hazard, not a hazard for every one else but for the homosexual (his/herself.)
It's rather sad that someone in the army should be worried about being hurt be their own side just because they like the opposite sex.
diget wrote...
I agree with you, in the army they should treat people according to rank and experience but try telling that to the guy who has to use the same shower as the gay guy. This tends to arouse strong feeling in those who are in the military. There are still going to be gay guys in the showers, they just won't be able to tell you they're gay. I get that many people find that uncomfortable, I certainly don't like showering with anyone, gay or not. But they need to get over it. It's not like they can't make showers more "private" so to speak. Install doors and such.
That is true, they wont know which in turn will lower the amount of violent incidents that happen in the military that involve homosexuals.
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diget wrote...
Cormac wrote...
diget wrote...
Cormac wrote...
Being gay is not a safety hazard. How on earth could anyone think that? Everyone in the army should be treated according to rank and experience. Not according to there race, sex, or sexual orientation.
Thing is when your around a bunch of guys who tend to not like homosexuality in the military all the sudden it become a safety hazard, not a hazard for every one else but for the homosexual (his/herself.)
It's rather sad that someone in the army should be worried about being hurt be their own side just because they like the opposite sex.
diget wrote...
I agree with you, in the army they should treat people according to rank and experience but try telling that to the guy who has to use the same shower as the gay guy. This tends to arouse strong feeling in those who are in the military. There are still going to be gay guys in the showers, they just won't be able to tell you they're gay. I get that many people find that uncomfortable, I certainly don't like showering with anyone, gay or not. But they need to get over it. It's not like they can't make showers more "private" so to speak. Install doors and such.
That is true, they wont know which in turn will lower the amount of violent incidents that happen in the military that involve homosexuals.
If we never address the problem it will never get fixed. It is a problem if gays are being harassed by their fellows. If we don't remove DADT the problem will never get better. By keeping DADT in place the military is hiding gays, and in turn the harassment they receive. A gay can't report the harassment because it will violate DADT, and he/she will be kicked from the army. This is unfair and unjust. That is my biggest complaint with this law; that it's unfair. Besides the fact that it's a obvious violation of the first amendment.
It is unfair to ask men and woman who would gladly give up there lives, nay, are expected to give up their lives if it is necessary, to keep secret such a thing. I know I'm repeating myself here but, it puts unneeded stress on people who already have one of the most stressful jobs on the planet.
The harassment thing is just a excuse to avoid lifting DADT. It's going to get worse before it gets better.
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Everybody knows who the gay guy (in our case, guys) in their platoon is.
Allowing them to be out about it opens avenues for the infringed to fight for themselves, without taking potentially dangerous action (disregard for orders, lowering morale on the whole, even physical altercation). This was already said, but I like the idea of a new EO category. And, if the homophobes get too onery, they can just file a report on the same form.
Though, I was talking to a friend who's a little peeved. He says this ruling destroys his plan B. He now needs a new way to get kicked out.
Allowing them to be out about it opens avenues for the infringed to fight for themselves, without taking potentially dangerous action (disregard for orders, lowering morale on the whole, even physical altercation). This was already said, but I like the idea of a new EO category. And, if the homophobes get too onery, they can just file a report on the same form.
Though, I was talking to a friend who's a little peeved. He says this ruling destroys his plan B. He now needs a new way to get kicked out.