Forgiving the devil...

Hello.


I feel a bit teasing so I would like to gently discuss with people believing in god(s), particularly christians, muslims, jews, but also polytheists and anyone feeling more or less concerned or interested...

Would the devil or any"thing" alike repent, would you forgive everything ?

Try to put in words either your feeling or your reasoning. We're not hear to fight, just discuss.


I thank by advance your amiable participation :-)

This is just weird...

For the number one thing, i dont think or believe that christian concept of "devil" exists.

Would the devil repent?: I would say no, i think one of the important aspects of being the "devil" is the very fact that you dont repent, feel mercy, feel pity or any other "nice" things. If you did repent, you would not be the devil.

Would i forgive everything?: Little harder to answer, but my answer would still be no. As of right know, i could forgive everything, if i understand the question correctly (for example to a some random bully at school who i still hate, i could forgive), BUT there are alot of things i can imagine realisticly happening and not being able to forgive (for example if a member of my family got murdered). I do think there are some people who deserve to "burn in hell".

Likewise, there are some people who don't get a free pass like Hitler, Stalin and Mao for example.

As for the devil repenting for himself? Doubt it, he is mostly acknowledged with Pride for a reason.

But I am also not a very forgiving person every few times. I know someone who would always bad mouth women and I think is a bit of a misogynist, never did he truly respect but the select few who would sleep with him. After years of being a fool, I ended the friendship, some people just aren't worth my time and forgiving them isn't worth it either. He never changed after all that time and he was a parasite when it came to me. He knew how to play the victim all the time too.

I would forgive him. If he truly and honestly repented. It's not like I would become friends with him or anything, but I would just acknowledge that he is no longer a bad person and not treat him as such. I could understand people wanting to punish him, but once his punishment is completed, I would just treat them like a regular person.

Hell, to be honest I would probably overlook all his tomfoolery even if he didn't repent, so long as he wasn't directing any of it at me.

Isnt the devil a falem angel in the bibelô though? Its not like He is the personification of evil at least in the begining, more like a rebel who ironically god didnt forgive

Yeah could be, im not sure. Never actually read the bible. The way i described devil was i guess how i see devil myself.

Not being a believer myself, I find it easier to make the devil a person. Hitler for example. I had Saddam Hussein in my mind but that might be lead to complication so I won't mention him. Except that I... just did... Anyway.

I think forgiveness is overrated and I think if we talk about the personification of evil, Hitler, the devil or what have you, we can't just go with a «I forgive you but promise you won't do it again» type of attitude. To say you forgive Hitler seems to imply something else, at least the way I see it.

So no, I wouldn't forgive him. I would let go of resentment towards him after justice has been served and if not, the important thing is to go on trying to make things right. You could have had a burning hatred for Hitler but after he's gone we let go of that but I don't think that is forgiveness. Forgiveness actually seems nearly impossible to me.

I like to believe in giving others a second chance so I'm always willing to forgive someone as long as they truly repent or regret the actions they have taken. Yeah I'd forgive the devil but whether or not he'd repent in the first place: No, I don't think he would, however, that doesn't mean I won't forgive him should he decide to ask forgiveness, he just seems too arogant to ask for forgiveness though (Notably in 'Paradise Lost').

I don't personally follow any religion or belief pertaining to any gods either way nor do I believe in such concepts of 'evil' or 'good'. God and the devil just same like two sides of the same coin to me, only their opinions differ on what to do with humanity and they need each-other to keep the balance, so if anything, I'd thank the devil for what he's doing/done rather than demand him to repent.

Well if you are talking about the basic devil then the idea of it repenting is just ridiculous. The only way it would repent is to trick people in allowing him to take their souls to his realm. It is just like I saw someone else say, "Would you forgive Hitler or Khan or any other crazy tyrant?"

I believe everybody is worthy of forgiveness, be they Hitler or even Satan, as long as they are willing to repent, entrusting the remainder of their existence to fortifying a future where effective countermeasures, or even deterrents to the acts that condemned them to hold the title of 'devil' are established. While their actions cannot be reversed, at the very least progression can be made to ensure that they'll never occur again in the future.

Im curious, when you say "everybody is worthy of forgiveness", what do you mean by that? Do you mean that we would not punish them at all in anyway?

Although devils must have done abominable crimes to possess that classification, were we to impose a court-sentenced punishment befitting of their misdeeds, it'd most likely render them incapable of repenting, little less aiding others to prevent such crimes from ever occurring again (such as the death penalty or life imprisonment).

Contrary to this from a moral standpoint, I believe that atonement, having to adopt a reversal to the factors which led to their crime(s) is the form of punishment I have in mind for those that do them; more or less a dynamic rehabilitation as a fitting 'punishment'.

Surely, if you can imagine that "devils" who are punished by the human law are incapable of repenting, you can also imagine that the very nature of "devils" could be that they never repent any misdeeds.

Besides, who is the judge of what constitutes as a "real repent". And also, repenting crimes does not prevent crimes from happening, if anything it increases them, because if there were no real punishment and all you can do after raping a 5 year old is repent and then you went on as a freeman, our entire law system would fall and society with it.



I have no idea what you mean by "dynamic rehabilitation"

If human law is laid down on a 'devil', they'd likely be as I mentioned earlier, sentenced to death or locked away for eternity; there's no discretion involved in lieu of the law. Were either to occur, there'd be no merit in repenting given a sentence has already been made and must be carried out, there would be no place for forgiveness.
Now, if actions are what classify one as a 'devil', then surely there are actions they can take to contradict that classification, such as atoning (against all odds)?



It'd be whatever the moral decision of the majority is, I suppose. Either way, it isn't the only condition necessary for forgiveness to be granted.



Hence is why I earlier stated that they in addition to repenting, entrust the remainder of their existence to fortify a future where effective countermeasures exist against whatsoever they did to classify them as 'devils'. Given that they reached the apex of their set of crimes (an apex established to date), then surely they must have a significant understanding of the factors which must be addressed and deterrents imposed, excluding their own death/imprisonment (which personally I believe are moot), to ensure that nobody could possibly adopt their path. In essence, they'd be removing the foundations of the 'devil's' path so that another 'devil' can never be created, at least not in their spitting image.

The fact that repeat crimes still occur today is proof enough that while the law system exists, its presence alone isn't enough to stop crimes from occurring.



A rehabilitation with activities that'd focus on addressing one prospect of a devil's nature at a time, assuming there are numerous natures amalgamated to produce a devil's nature. Either way the activities would alter depending on the devil's progression.

Because there is no absolute way (atleast not yet) to figure out wether a person repenting is honest or not, it would be suicidal to trust these 'devils' and to let them live with the society. As of right now, there are actions in my oppinion that cannot be forgiven.

Also, you said: "there'd be no merit in repenting"
Doesnt that mean that we would have to 'reward' the people who repent, may i ask why? In my oppinion people should repent for their own sake, not for the sake of others and without the expectation of a reward.




If human actions dont have any consequences (people who rape are rapists, people who murder are murderers), if those labels could be removed by other actions like 'repenting' and 'asking for forgivness,' and that would free them of the consequences of their previous actions, then ultimately everything is ok and human civilization would crumble.




If you accept that 'moral' judgement is decided by majority, then you have nothing to say for example against islamic jihad, who behead 9 year old girls because they wanted to learn how to read, if that is the majority oppinion.




This is already in place, criminals help with the investigation of other criminals so they get reduced sentences, paroles, get to see their familys more often so on and so fort.

To say all or even most 'devils' have "a significant understanding of the factors which must be addressed and deterrents imposed" is a over statement in my oppinion. And those factors and deterrents can be studied without the help of the accused.




The fact that repeat crimes still occur is proof that we do not yet understand the human mind, that our societys are not perfect, that maybe some people regardless of education or society are born to be evil because of genes. WE need to understand the criminal, not the crime, to make this world a better place and we do not achieve that by letting people 'repent' their responsibilities away.




I do believe in the rehabilitation and forgivness, i think people can change, but i also think there are some actions that cannot or should not be forgiven. The 'devil' is not the best person to cure evil. If that were the case he should have been able to 'cure' himself before commiting evil actions. If he was able to 'cure' himself, but still did the evil actions, then, forgiving these type of people and letting them 'repent' their responsibilities away is suicidal.

@Coconutt
I'll respond to your recentmost response, however given we've both derailed from the OP's initial question a fair bit, could you please abstain from responding to the responses I'll provide to them? I've left one response outside of the spoiler given it's the most relevant to the question being asked, please do respond to that one if you like.

I've enclosed the responses below:




Even if the devil is not the best individual to prevent the crimes they've committed from ever being committed again, they definitely should possess some level of competence to provide a foundation for others to build upon. True enough the past cannot be changed, however if there is a brighter, attainable future which can only be reached with the devil's contribution, then why not allow of it to pass?

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Note: Please keep the OP's question in mind when answering.

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In the context that the devil repents, I'm assuming that they were sincere in their repentance. My response to this scenario (as opposed to them being insincere) is the one that hasn't been disclosed in the spoiler.

The OPs question was: Would the devil or any"thing" alike repent, would you forgive everything? Meaning he is talking in my oppinion about a religious being and i have given my answer to that earlier in this topic. You said "everybody is worthy of forgiveness, be they Hitler or even Satan, as long as they are willing to repent" meaning that you are comparing 'devil' to a real human being that actually existed or could exist, and there for actions done to real humans effect the society as a whole and i was arguing against that.
I guess sorry for doing that.




The word 'devil' can mean different things to different people, the way you define the word is not the same everybody else define the word. Also i have already given my answer about the imaginary being called 'the devil'. Comparing that to real humans is pointless, becuase it is not comparing like with like and treating the two as same is also pointless, one is real, the other one is not.




Your answer does not address my point at all which is valid, you are simply commenting on my poor example.




"They definitely SHOULD possess some level of competence"
"Which can ONLY be reached with devil's contribution"

Those statements are based on absolutily nothing, they have no merit what so ever or atleast you have not provided anything that supports them.

A double debate about about what would mean forgiving, and what would mean the devil ?

Good good ^^

I have no way to know whether he is genuine or not and if it is a lasting repentence. If I had a dead certain way to know both, I would forgive them, otherwise I would make them pay through whatever justice system is relevant.

God is just as evil as the devil (if not more so since he created evil with pride). If God's impious acts can be overlooked, then why can't the devil be forgiven if he repents?