How big of a d-bag can a person be before you fight back?
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I asked this to my friends on Facebook, and got responses that were...disappointing. Not because their answers contradicted my own beliefs, but because their answers started having less and less to do with what I asked. But.
In movies and things, people love pulling certain cards(race/gender/disability)to get away with doing/saying whatever they want. So:
How much could a white male of average height and build offend you before you could justify decking him?
And what about a female? It's a difficult, super uphill battle trying to look like the good guy, right? So how far would she have to push you before you would physically fight back?
What if the person offending you was a war veteran? It's popularly accepted that serving in the armed forces, especially if you've seen combat, is one of the most respectable things a person can do. How much could they offend you before you flew off the handle? Yes, serving demands a relatively high level of respect, but the guy standing in front of you is definitely not deserving it right now. Are you willing to kick his ass and risk the repercussions?
What if he was a -disabled- war veteran? How much verbal abuse would you let them get away with before you felt inclined to punch them? Maybe the guy lost a leg in Vietnam while trying to save a downed soldier, but right now he's spitting in your drink and trying to grope your girlfriend.
What if the guy is mentally disabled? Certainly people with extreme disabilities are pretty much 100% excused if they say something that would otherwise be infuriating, but there are conditions wherein someone has pretty decent control over their thoughts and words, but are somewhat out of control of their physical body. For example, comedian Josh Blue has Cerebral Palsy, but he's still capable of doing the things he wants to do. Could you see yourself throwing a punch if the situation got heated enough?
Maybe you're a super pacifist, and physical violence is never at any point in time permissible. Or maybe you're the kind of person who is willing to throw down any time someone crosses your line?
In movies and things, people love pulling certain cards(race/gender/disability)to get away with doing/saying whatever they want. So:
How much could a white male of average height and build offend you before you could justify decking him?
And what about a female? It's a difficult, super uphill battle trying to look like the good guy, right? So how far would she have to push you before you would physically fight back?
What if the person offending you was a war veteran? It's popularly accepted that serving in the armed forces, especially if you've seen combat, is one of the most respectable things a person can do. How much could they offend you before you flew off the handle? Yes, serving demands a relatively high level of respect, but the guy standing in front of you is definitely not deserving it right now. Are you willing to kick his ass and risk the repercussions?
What if he was a -disabled- war veteran? How much verbal abuse would you let them get away with before you felt inclined to punch them? Maybe the guy lost a leg in Vietnam while trying to save a downed soldier, but right now he's spitting in your drink and trying to grope your girlfriend.
What if the guy is mentally disabled? Certainly people with extreme disabilities are pretty much 100% excused if they say something that would otherwise be infuriating, but there are conditions wherein someone has pretty decent control over their thoughts and words, but are somewhat out of control of their physical body. For example, comedian Josh Blue has Cerebral Palsy, but he's still capable of doing the things he wants to do. Could you see yourself throwing a punch if the situation got heated enough?
Maybe you're a super pacifist, and physical violence is never at any point in time permissible. Or maybe you're the kind of person who is willing to throw down any time someone crosses your line?
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How much could a white male of average height and build offend you before you could justify decking him?
And what about a female? It's a difficult, super uphill battle trying to look like the good guy, right? So how far would she have to push you before you would physically fight back?
And what about a female? It's a difficult, super uphill battle trying to look like the good guy, right? So how far would she have to push you before you would physically fight back?
Before I deck him/her? If they attack me physically.
Seriously, any other reason is moronic. There's absolutely no excuse for it. Physically attacking first because you were "offended" or your "honor" was tarnished? Yeah, right. It's called assault. Hope you enjoy your jail time.
inb4 "you're a coward for not standing up for what you believe in!"
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fatman wrote...
Before I deck him/her? If they attack me physically.Seriously, any other reason is moronic. Physically attacking first because you were "offended"? Yeah, right. It's called assault. Hope you enjoy your jail time.
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Its simple man, never escalate the confrontation. Or just walk away. Do anything else and you face the possibility of Jail. How do you think a Judge will handle a case with a guy in a wheelchair and you? Walk away man, the dude is an ass, and if you seriously hurt by this because its he seeks you out and its unavoidable every time, you can use the law, many states and countries have laws when it comes to verbal abuses coming from someone. Especially if its threats of any type.
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Well i don't hit people for offending me or any of that, the reason is simple.
I hate hurting others.
I hate hurting others.
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It's literally almost impossible for me to lose my temper now. I can get angry, but genuinely pissed? It's been quite a long time. A lifetime (okay 1st grade to 8th) of detentions, suspensions, and a mandatory transfer has set my ability to ignore assholes to a extremely high limit. Boy or Girl, vetaran or not, I won't hesitate to punch them in the face if they go way to far. Have you read "A Samurai's Tale"? The one soldier that was a veteran was a complete AH, and everyone hated him, fellow soldiers and all. I just give people who have a problem or are female a little more rope before I snap. And if it breaks into a fight, I'll pin them and threaten to break their arms if they don't stop. Best way to avoid people? Don't talk to people, and if you have to, make it quick. They hit first, then they're fair game.
Just ignore them. Mp3 players were invented for a reason.
Just ignore them. Mp3 players were invented for a reason.
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Usually going to jail is a good reason not to deck them in the first place. Disabled, war veteran or preacher doesn't give you the right to be an ass.
If they attack me I'll defend myself if needed.
If they attack me I'll defend myself if needed.
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It doesn't matter if he's disabled,a female or even a kid, the moment I sense an intent greater than normal violence (life threatening situations) I will retaliate with lethal force. Otherwise will only seek to incapacitate.
If he's a war veteran then, there's no holding back, if he comes from a war I don't support I'd probably spit on his medals and uniform and take a dump on his beret.
That said, the war veteran is more likely to kick my ass given his military training, so consider it wishful thinking.
If he's a war veteran then, there's no holding back, if he comes from a war I don't support I'd probably spit on his medals and uniform and take a dump on his beret.
That said, the war veteran is more likely to kick my ass given his military training, so consider it wishful thinking.
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Kutharos
Not a dentist
Unless the person has a condition that makes it hard for them to control their speech or movement, I don't excuse it. A person who is either a war vet or disable is still a human being and thus are to be treated like a human being. Getting shot in the leg does not give you a free ticket to be a ponce.
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Honestly, this is a weird exercise because answering the call of the question is like saying the conditions necessary for you to become the Hulk. I would say the threshold of acceptable punching range increases proportionally with the amount of alchohol I've consumed, the number of hours of sleep missing and the number of grandmas actually harmed.
With that said, I think decking someone is, overall, a bad idea. While yes, it is a really emphatic way to get a point across, it is also like adding a third party to the process of communication. A third party that, frankly, doesn't care about your feelings and always assumes that you could've been a better person than that. Ultimately, it's like getting your point across, then putting it through a stringer where your endurance is whittled to where you don't care about the point anymore.
I mean, I can go on and on about principle being important, but it would never outweigh how annoying and frustrating it is to deal with someone who doesn't share that same viewpoint and expects better of you. It's a sort of funny paradox actually. Punching someone is the most direct way to get a point across, but it also guarantees that your point will be lost at some point, even from the person you punched's perspective.
Generally speaking, my punch out meter doesn't take strangers into account. There needs to be some more context than just being insufferable, like grabbing an old woman's purse or transition from assault to battery.
With that said, I think decking someone is, overall, a bad idea. While yes, it is a really emphatic way to get a point across, it is also like adding a third party to the process of communication. A third party that, frankly, doesn't care about your feelings and always assumes that you could've been a better person than that. Ultimately, it's like getting your point across, then putting it through a stringer where your endurance is whittled to where you don't care about the point anymore.
I mean, I can go on and on about principle being important, but it would never outweigh how annoying and frustrating it is to deal with someone who doesn't share that same viewpoint and expects better of you. It's a sort of funny paradox actually. Punching someone is the most direct way to get a point across, but it also guarantees that your point will be lost at some point, even from the person you punched's perspective.
Generally speaking, my punch out meter doesn't take strangers into account. There needs to be some more context than just being insufferable, like grabbing an old woman's purse or transition from assault to battery.
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Words can be ignored. I know this sounds stupid but it's true. I've never put my hands on someone, because I've never lost my cool. There are always going to be assholes in this world, it's not my job to seek holy retribution on them with my fists.
Besides, assholes are just assholes. Even the biggest, foulest-mouthed, most hateful son of a bitch can still not technically be guilty of evil. [Rape, battery, murder] and when I compare the sting of being insulted against the gravity of an actual crime, it is clear that resorting to battery is not the right course of action.
So, to answer your question.
There is never a point where battery is justifiable.
Self-defense is an entirely different situation, though. If someone comes at me and tries to hurt me, then I will defend myself. But until the moment I am in clear and present danger, my hands will never leave my sides.
In short, words are words. They carry as much meaning as you let them. For me, it helps to consider the mental state of the person speaking them. I prefer to try to understand the people around me, good or bad, rather than succumb to my own personal suffering.
Besides, assholes are just assholes. Even the biggest, foulest-mouthed, most hateful son of a bitch can still not technically be guilty of evil. [Rape, battery, murder] and when I compare the sting of being insulted against the gravity of an actual crime, it is clear that resorting to battery is not the right course of action.
So, to answer your question.
There is never a point where battery is justifiable.
Self-defense is an entirely different situation, though. If someone comes at me and tries to hurt me, then I will defend myself. But until the moment I am in clear and present danger, my hands will never leave my sides.
In short, words are words. They carry as much meaning as you let them. For me, it helps to consider the mental state of the person speaking them. I prefer to try to understand the people around me, good or bad, rather than succumb to my own personal suffering.
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Just as Lollikittie said, I haven't ever laid a hand on anyone that offends me (or my friends for that matter) VERBALLY. A few hits from someone (background and whatnot doesn't matter in my world) wont make me loose my cool, but if they don't understand a no and keep on being violent, I WILL step in.
Up until this day, I have been lucky not to meet anyone I had to go all out on, and I never hope that day will come :)
Up until this day, I have been lucky not to meet anyone I had to go all out on, and I never hope that day will come :)
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Some fun trivia/mild corrections, what most posts in this thread are describing as assault is actually battery.
Assault is an action that puts someone in fear of an immediate battery, whereas battery is the unlawful touching of another human being without consent or legal justification.
Assault is an action that puts someone in fear of an immediate battery, whereas battery is the unlawful touching of another human being without consent or legal justification.
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I pretty much agree with the whole lot of you:
If the first punch is theirs, then we get to beat the crap out of them.
Then again, some things can be said that will make me make them swallow their teeth in the first place.
Hasn't happenned yet, and I hope it won't.
If the first punch is theirs, then we get to beat the crap out of them.
Then again, some things can be said that will make me make them swallow their teeth in the first place.
Hasn't happenned yet, and I hope it won't.
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If someone were insulting me, I'd just apoligize to calm them down, or just laugh it off.
If they began throwing punches, I'd hightail it out of there.
It's better to have no pride then to go to jail.
If they began throwing punches, I'd hightail it out of there.
It's better to have no pride then to go to jail.
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I am curious what the OP has to say of the responses so far.
I have feeling he was expecting people to agree that there is a limit to what you can take verbally, and you're a "super pacifist" if you don't agree.
I have feeling he was expecting people to agree that there is a limit to what you can take verbally, and you're a "super pacifist" if you don't agree.
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fatman wrote...
I am curious what the OP has to say of the responses so far.I have feeling he was expecting people to agree that there is a limit to what you can take verbally, and you're a "super pacifist" if you don't agree.
To be honest, you'd be right in thinking that I had an urge to try and prod the posts in a direction that would ultimately lead in somebody saying "yes, there is a limit to what I can take verbally or passive aggressively from someone based on their gender/race/physical & mental limitations, etc." I was going to change scenarios, add conditions, and basically just keep amending my post until people started saying things I "wanted" to hear.
But I figure that the only way to get a true response is to ask the question and then let the answers fall where they may. I worded my question as best I could, but I don't doubt I may have worded certain things wrong. now I have to accept the results.
I would like to make it clear though, that I did -try- to make it impartial. I'm not trying to make pacifism sound weak or aggression barbaric. What I did find interesting is that of the scenarios I listed, people said they'd be willing to fight back physically -provided that the other person threw the first punch-, even though I made sure that none of the antagonists where being physically belligerent. I find the self-defense reasoning the most common/convenient way to justify aggression, and wanted to see if there were any other ways to justify it that I could agree with.
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devsonfire
3,000,000th Poster
Well, I can just walk away with friend/girlfriend if they insult us like that.
But if they start a physical attack, they are not getting away from me whoever they are.
But if they start a physical attack, they are not getting away from me whoever they are.
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I'm naturally a pacifist, and i always have been. There's always that one douchebag you know that pisses you off, and you want to hit sometimes, but it really all depends on your own personnel level.
I'll only fight back if i feel generally threatened.
But one instance of me "fighting back" for the little people.
I was hanging out at a school gym (open gym after-school) to get some exercise and i saw this kid (17-19 or so) who was just being a complete dick to one of the younger kids (13-15 or so) by taking their basketball and throwing it to the other side of the gym. After about the forth or fifth time, i went over and hit the ball out of his hand before he threw it again. He pushed me away a bit and swore at me. I scoffed and he walked out of the gym.
I don't tolerate stupidity when it comes to menial things.
As for women, I have a clear rule about "Hitting" (i.e, with intent to hurt/inflict pain) women. If i see a woman get hit, if she has signs of getting hit, or if she is about to get hit, i'll step in, and beat the living shit out of the guy that hits her. However, if it's a woman, i have no problems "restraining" (i.e, tying up and locking in a closet) until i can get police assistance to resolve any issues that may be occurring.
Mentally ill people can be "irritating" unless you know how to deal with them. If they do something wrong, the only thing you really need to do, is say "Hey, you shouldn't do that, it's not what you're supposed to do." I've had experience with many Mentally Ill people and it's not really very difficult to get rid of them before a conflict starts.
Anyway, rambling done.
-Fakkuist
I'll only fight back if i feel generally threatened.
But one instance of me "fighting back" for the little people.
I was hanging out at a school gym (open gym after-school) to get some exercise and i saw this kid (17-19 or so) who was just being a complete dick to one of the younger kids (13-15 or so) by taking their basketball and throwing it to the other side of the gym. After about the forth or fifth time, i went over and hit the ball out of his hand before he threw it again. He pushed me away a bit and swore at me. I scoffed and he walked out of the gym.
I don't tolerate stupidity when it comes to menial things.
As for women, I have a clear rule about "Hitting" (i.e, with intent to hurt/inflict pain) women. If i see a woman get hit, if she has signs of getting hit, or if she is about to get hit, i'll step in, and beat the living shit out of the guy that hits her. However, if it's a woman, i have no problems "restraining" (i.e, tying up and locking in a closet) until i can get police assistance to resolve any issues that may be occurring.
Mentally ill people can be "irritating" unless you know how to deal with them. If they do something wrong, the only thing you really need to do, is say "Hey, you shouldn't do that, it's not what you're supposed to do." I've had experience with many Mentally Ill people and it's not really very difficult to get rid of them before a conflict starts.
Anyway, rambling done.
-Fakkuist