How do you feel about the internet & copyright laws?

Making an OS for a videogame console isn't that hard. Making a perfect one with a lot of functions is a hard task, though, but making a good enough to long last a few years without getting badly break isn't that hard. Even a single programmer can do that, now a legion, uff. You can't apply that to Windows, though, for its open file management structure. If PSX, PS2, PSP, DS and Wii got so easily abused was because Sony actually used piracy to build its name as a marketing plan for the PSX and PS2, while the PSP was because a lucky exploit who got out of Sony's hands. DS and Wii had so poorly done OS that yeah, that was kinda effortless. The remaining consoles needed or are needing years to get break, if they will even get, in any case enough time to do business without piracy.

Please do not nitpick wording, that is just silly, I guess we can all agree we're talking about common practices on modern DRM.





I'm not really planning in opening a new topic because I feel this topic is somewhat relevant as a lot of DRM methods are actually involved on those things.

Hi, are you a computer science major? Because it doesn't sound like you are. Did you know that I am? You're saying things like, "Make an OS that doesn't "break"", and, "Open file management structure" which lead me to really question if you understand how copy protection is implemented. It even makes me question if you understand how OSes are developed.
Consoles typically implement copy protection by way of not allowing the user to run software that isn't signed by the console distributor. Console pirates subvert this by injecting code to allow the user to do just the opposite. Is this what you mean when you say "breaking an OS"?


I'd be inclined to agree with you there if CD keys weren't still in use. (They very much are.)


The discussion about DRM is, but the discussion about privacy isn't. I'm still going to have to ask you to take it to a different thread if you want to continue the discussion. (If you want to discuss it over PM I'd be happy to, but frankly speaking your claims of how privacy on the internet is handled drastically differently than in real life are incorrect.)
And by the way, you

don't pay to use Facebook.

Now coming back to DRM: I said modern. CD Key is still used a lot today, but it is an old method, not a modern one. Still, it's a silly attempt to expect you can protect your copy on an environment where you can freely modify copies, so DRM should just limit itself to control your copy management and little more. Steam is so far the best attempt to manage your digital copy as it manages it like if it were a physical copy in the first place. Though people can easily bypass Steam's use, they will lose the benefits of using Steam, so people is encouraged to buy. Steam does not force you to stay online outside authentication, though it may be better if it does not force you to login to play the games already installed, *sigh*, oh, well, at least that is becoming less and less a problem today.

Pretty much. However, code injection is prevented mainly through hardware, not the OS. For instance, Sony released their consoles with a special blu-ray reader that could read the way they printed game discs. There is honestly *very* little you can do to prevent someone from running their own code if they can get it onto your system. So I really wouldn't call it 'breaking the OS' so much as 'subverting console copy protection'.


Emulation in all aspects is much harder than jailbreaking or flashcarting the existing console. To this day, PCSX2 still only has, what, 90% emulation of PS2 games? But yeah, the Wii was emulated pretty quickly since it was basically just a Gamecube turbo.


Haha I could argue that modern DRM is an amalgamation of CD keys, file encryption, online authentication, and anti-piracy glitches but you have your point. ;p
Anyway, I agree with you on this. Any time a published *cough*Ubisoft*cough* introduces some ridiculously draconian DRM that ends up hurting the consumer way more than it affects the pirates, it makes me want to pirate it more... even if I wasn't interested in the game to begin with.

Yeah, as for breaking it's my fault for not thinking in a best term (that thing about still getting used to English, too) XD. And yeah, you're right, most of the prevention comes about hardware and how it boots its OS. Without any hardware protection it is just as easy as booting your own OS, lol. Though making a good OS is also relevant, as PSP and Wii has shown us.



Reverse engineering stuff is extremely complex. Without doubts reverse engineers deserve a great respect, specially those who attempt to faithful reproduce rather mimicking with patches specific traits (though a good balance with efficiency isn't a bad deal).



To be honest when I find a product or service that will start doing things like that I just lose interest on it. That just saddens me.

It's an optional bit of code that companies like Ubisoft use to deter piracy. The game is created and when it's ready to ship, they tack on a DRM to protect the interests of the company. I wouldn't pay for something that i need to consistently prove that i did indeed purchase. I may not have a say as whether or not they use DRM, but i do have a choice of not supporting DRM buy not buying products that contain them.



I agree with you here. It's almost like retribution being done unto the company. Today though, pirating seems to favor the companies more in the sense that if they catch you doing it, you are held liable and have to pay large sums of money for your small act of defiance. Like stealing a grain of rice from a greedy ruler who wants to profit on every grain.

Which brings me to the next point i want to bring up: the shut down of websites that host pirated material.

A website that i had frequented quite a lot over the past 2-3 years was shut down yesterday. AnimeTake (aka AT, if you've never heard of it) had a very large collection of torrent links and DDLs for anime, OVAs/OADs, and movies that was regularly updated with new content from other sites such as nyaa or horriblesubs.

If piracy accounts for the small percentage of loss and no physical items are being stolen, why would websites like this be shut down? Why does the law conveniently intermix the physical world with the digital world? You'll see on many different sources, people writing about theft in the case of digital property should hold the same consequences of something tangible being stolen. This was brought up earlier in the discussion by Tegumi.



The gray area here is massive, the intellectual property law clause states that copyright is here "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries." No where in that clause does it say that authors are to be paid for every released copy of their work. My theory here is that they want to cut their loss down to 0 or as close to that as possible.

This new anti-piracy law that japan had begun last year in August seeks to put a stop to illegal copies being posted but it's going to end up being counterproductive to what their goals are. If 50% of the US (facts taken from multiple articles sourcing the japanese anti-piracy law) consume pirated media, by removing their source of anime, they will eliminate that many customers. No one will simply pay for an anime they have never watched, like Watashi no Doku.



For this reason i'm scratching my head while trying to figure out what their intentions are. The first thing that came to mind was money. The Japanese government is doing it's job of protecting it's citizens. But is it really looking out for its authors' best interests? Or are they trying to rake in any profit that was "wrongfully" taken. The campaign for this was impressive, if you haven't seen the video, it's here: [MAGP] Thanks, friends. They took a different approach to combating piracy with stark contrast to the way other countries would. It's too bad that the methods of physically stopping a digital phenomenon are always the same. Subpoenas, imprisonment, hefty fines, and the most important, another loss in the battle for a free internet. Anime may be a cultural export of Japan, but should that be used as grounds to force websites that raise awareness for their products to shut down when faced with a subpoena or a hefty fine if they aren't compliant? Most of the these websites are non-profit. They only ask for donations to keep the website up. It's like a day at Comiket where you stand there reading an author's work and decide to buy a copy or not after you've experienced the work.

For me, I can only see the Japanese government hurting itself with this new law. That makes it even more frustrating to think about when consumers like me lose a valuable source like AT.

I don't really have much to add to this discussion but this ties into something slightly off-topic. And that is the idea of "voting with your dollar/wallet". This idea is not something I believe in or support because ultimately it's a binary metric. Your audience either bought the product or they didn't. If your product fails to succeed you cannot properly determine the cause by looking at sales. Maybe your product was just a pile of shit. Maybe your marketing strategy sucked balls. Maybe it was in fact the DRM. There might even be some group of silly people who just thought "Wow you picked a stupid ass name. There's no way I'm gonna buy this." Of course there are ways to get a very rough estimate of how many people pirated your product but you can still never be sure why. And it all turns back into one binary conclusion. The product made a lot of money and therefore it was a success or the product didn't make a lot of money and therefore it was a failure. I believe this is a complete failure of communication, and that is something that should be desired (but for whatever reason, it isn't). In fact when the gaming community got upset about DRM in the XBOne/PS4, there were a number of people who equated losing features with losing DRM. As you said, including DRM in your product is a choice and that was not properly communicated to these members of the gaming community. Publishers decided we could only have option A or option B, but the reality is that there was an even better option C which they didn't want us to consider.

A little more on topic now, it's very well known that lord GabeN spoke the glorious words, "piracy is basically a non-issue." and "Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem." You create a good service and consumers will use it. I don't believe cost is completely out of question though. Is FAKKU! being hurt by piracy? Well I think the service here is pretty good. The quality of the porn is magnificent. You can download your hentai in different formats. You can view it online. The website does have problems though. A number of users have reported problems with downloading. Some are experiencing interruptions in service (i.e. they see a maintenance screen during peak hours). It's up to FAKKU! to address these issues, not the pirates. Going back to what lord GabeN said, is the service here greater than the pirates' service? Well actually that might be kind of arguable. If there are healthy torrents they might be more accessible than the sometimes flaky FAKKU! servers. Jacob has decided to refrain from using any kind of DRM on the books which is fantastic for consumers but also improves the quality of pirated versions. The only differences I can tell between the two services are the minor perks you get (the founding achievement and access to the books forum) and the exclusive ability to support your favorite hentai artist by buying their work.

So ultimately the "piracy perks" are:
1. You don't have to pay.
2. You don't have to deal with any site disruptions.
3. You can check out the book before making a commitment.
4. You are not subject to any of the advertisements on this site and you are not supporting FAKKU! in any way (because there are losers who really, REALLY hate @Jacob and think he's a sellout or something)

I can't say any of this for certain by I think that people who favor 1. can be subdivided into two groups: people who can't afford the book(s) and people who just don't want to pay. The ones who couldn't afford it may eventually buy the book because they care about the artist or whatever. And some may forget or lose interest. It's hard to say. And the people who weren't about to pay for it wouldn't do so either way and the only way Jacob can deal with this is by adopting DRM (which would inevitably be circumvented). This would probably be the majority of people though, so we should believe that most pirates are one of these two.

For the people who want to dodge site disruptions, that's on FAKKU! to improve site stability. I don't personally think it's that big of a problem and people need to suck it up a little.

As for 3. there are currently no ways to really get a sample of the books before they're purchased other than pirating it. This is a true benefit to piracy.

And as for the last one, well these punks are clowns who probably believe everything they hear. They weren't going to buy in the first place.

So no, I don't think piracy is harming the business in any significant way.

Those four points can be used on as a guideline for larger examples of piracy as well. When looking at a single business like Fakku! and it's products, piracy may very well be a non-issue. Jacob's decision to not use a DRM on the books is a grand idea and i wish more companies had that same mindset. What i liked the most about your post though was this:



Wholeheartedly agree. I do not mind paying for something i can see beforehand and know for sure i would enjoy and use. This is probably the best perk of being a pirate. There isn't a service available today that I believe would cater to everyone when it comes to anime or just content in general. These websites provide a service that the companies themselves don't offer. Here on Fakku!, it's very clear what services are offered , the service is fast and user-friendly (for most), and it attracts a niche market from all over the world. This is ideal.

Now if there was a service that brought anime producers together and provided the same level of ease and care to consumers that Fakku does, then this would be another ideal. As long as this business had all the necessary licensing, the worry of having a pirated copy of content is gone. Alas, this doesn't exist. So wouldn't be up to the producers to deal with this? For example, the Japanese government shouldn't be the one to step in and say, "Hey, our businesses are losing money because you offer a better service than we do currently. Stop what you're doing, or else." Just as an example, Crunchyroll doesn't have Clannad or True Tears. These amazing shows should be available to me in acceptable quality without having to purchase the entire series before i watch the first episode. Streaming quality sucks, and i'd rather not go through ads just to find a source had a Funimation DMCA takedown notice for that series. If only piracy truly was a "non-issue".

I feel that that we should start making a pirate crew full of intensely punctuated people.

I'm sure that copyright laws are circumstantial within different issues, I don't need an example. We are ruining large amounts of property by distributing it allowing pirates. Our internet copyright laws are not effective against pirates on low budget companies. They can redue the overall pirate on many organisation and professional work-but the point is.

Professional work--->make money
internet people pirate it--->less money.

It becomes a problem so what happens here is a copyright claim.
Depend's on the owner.

Person I consider copyrights as thieves because :

• I'm all for authors/inventors rights.

• Patent/copyright trolls (NPE, etc) hinder economics, research, etc.

It does not matter who the licensed material came from, as soon as it hits the waters, it's gone forever. The effects are just as you say. There is money lost where pirating occurs. However, piracy also exposes the material to people who would otherwise not be able to see the pirated media. This creates opportunity to generate more revenue from places outside of its intended location. Why is that a bad thing?

Short answer: the problem is Japan. Long answer:

1. Japanese people don't need piracy to know who authors are and what they do, they can just go outside and porn is everywhere in grand quantity and fair pricing. Blogs, pixiv, whatever, they totally know. When you upload a torrent with a wani book you're letting tens of thousands of people steal that book, people who likely had the 1000 Yen to buy it but went "eh, whatever". Same goes for digital releases. They can read it, you can't, it's totally worth the money to them but then again, if you can get it for free and go scot-free, why pay?

2. Let's say we ban Japanese IPs from everywhere. How is that fair? They make the works and you're allowed to steal them? How does that make sense?

3. Not many people after pirating a game go "this was good, gonna purchase to support the author", I imagine something trivial like hentai being even worse.

Typically. Anime and manga is viably safe when it comes to pirates. Individual organisations, movies, documentaries and music are the perfect aspects of piratic practice naturally flicking out randoms. But I don't care.

Anyways, I wasn't intending to choose sides. I wanted to point out the inconvenience of companies being effected.

EDIT: Deleted unnecessary description.