Moral compass
0
Maxiart wrote...
They will simply fret about having stole, and feel "bad" for the person.
Feeling " bad " for the person, or guilt, remorse is a consequences of you and him being human. You have broken the social contract of society, you can understand him as once you took something away from him because he and you are human beings, you can link your feeling to him as he is yourself, I believe this is because you are a educated to link your feelings to a closer being.
Guilt or remorse is also a system established to people similar to rules and law, becoming also a consequence of criminal action. We humans are able to understand each other and feel "humanity" because we are educated so.
Human babies are born only with animal instincts, we furthur educate the baby to be able to relate himself along with other closer beings. Therefore the feeling of "omg i stole that guys wallet, i feel bad." because you yourself would not want your wallet to be stolen and you yourself would feel bad if your possesion is lost with no reason available.
You are able to relate yourself to someone else and feel bad, but this does not mean that the person truly felt bad. This can be explained by if you, wanted to give back what you stolen from him, it seems that sometimes what you stole from him is insignificant, once you realised that, your guilt will lessen because you yourself know that it is not so important if something you lost is insignificant.
Animals do not show pity when preying for food in nessacity because they are not taught to relate their feelings to another being. Imagine a human baby growing up not knowing language, social skills and any other information, the baby would only think about food and rest and shit and reproduction just like anyother animal.
Thats why i believe that Guilt, remorse , too is a system established by mankind to maintain our peace by education. Believing that it is something that "exist" in humans is what i believe, a wrong perception. This is a consequence of human education.
0
Now wait a bit. I was giving an example. I did not say I felt bad. I was talking more about some friends of mine.
Of the scarce times I've stolen something, I've felt bad because there was a a high chance of getting caught. Not because, alas, my fellow human was missing something. Of course, if someone stole something mine, I would feel bad, but then again even cannibals dont want to be eaten.
Of the scarce times I've stolen something, I've felt bad because there was a a high chance of getting caught. Not because, alas, my fellow human was missing something. Of course, if someone stole something mine, I would feel bad, but then again even cannibals dont want to be eaten.
0
I'll quote Charles zi Britannia from Code Geass for you.
"The world is full of lies. 'Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness. Thou shalt not commit adultery.' These are all lies, all deceptions. 'I don't want to be killed. I don't want to be the victim of theft.' That is why they use lies like justice and morals to protect their weak selves. The original truth is survival of the fittest. One must devour it all, whether it to be other humans, wealth, power, or the world itself."
I must say that I think that some of this is the truth, if not all of it. Morals is a human invention to protect ourselves from other humans. Moral is not something that is naturaly intertwined with the human mind at birth; it is something that is forced upon us, be it by government law, religion or culture. If no one ever told you what was right or wrong, you would have no idea what was. And if you grow up, being teached that killing and stealing is not a bad thing, it's necessary, then that is what you would believe.
Personally I think that Fear of the law is what makes most people talk about "proper morals", fear of the consequences and punishment. If it wall legal to kill other people, hell I'd kill a lot of stupid asses that has ruined my days.
And I think the Telvanni rule is pretty good: "If you steal from a person without getting caught, he obviously didn't deserve to have it anyway." =D
"The world is full of lies. 'Thou shalt not kill. Thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not bear false witness. Thou shalt not commit adultery.' These are all lies, all deceptions. 'I don't want to be killed. I don't want to be the victim of theft.' That is why they use lies like justice and morals to protect their weak selves. The original truth is survival of the fittest. One must devour it all, whether it to be other humans, wealth, power, or the world itself."
I must say that I think that some of this is the truth, if not all of it. Morals is a human invention to protect ourselves from other humans. Moral is not something that is naturaly intertwined with the human mind at birth; it is something that is forced upon us, be it by government law, religion or culture. If no one ever told you what was right or wrong, you would have no idea what was. And if you grow up, being teached that killing and stealing is not a bad thing, it's necessary, then that is what you would believe.
Personally I think that Fear of the law is what makes most people talk about "proper morals", fear of the consequences and punishment. If it wall legal to kill other people, hell I'd kill a lot of stupid asses that has ruined my days.
And I think the Telvanni rule is pretty good: "If you steal from a person without getting caught, he obviously didn't deserve to have it anyway." =D
0
You're correct in saying that morals were created by people in order to protect ourselves.
However does that not give them merit? Think of it like this, the mere fact that we have created morals in order to protect ourself signifies that there is something that can cause harm to us. If we created these morals to shelter ourselves from this harm, is it not just to do so?
At the same time, who is to say what is right and wrong. Since man himself did indeed decide what is right from wrong, we judge the rest of the world based on a standard we created. Right, wrong, morals, all of these things are perceivable, who are we to say what is, and what isn't acceptable?
You can think of it in a lot of different ways, but in the end, even that is perception.
However does that not give them merit? Think of it like this, the mere fact that we have created morals in order to protect ourself signifies that there is something that can cause harm to us. If we created these morals to shelter ourselves from this harm, is it not just to do so?
At the same time, who is to say what is right and wrong. Since man himself did indeed decide what is right from wrong, we judge the rest of the world based on a standard we created. Right, wrong, morals, all of these things are perceivable, who are we to say what is, and what isn't acceptable?
You can think of it in a lot of different ways, but in the end, even that is perception.
0
What merit? The merit that we all deny our own instincts? You could actually say that, beacuse of morals, the weak are protected from the strong and natural selection are no longer existant in the human race. That could mean that the evolution of humans already has stopped. All beacuse of morals. To always be sheltered from harm is not necessarily a good thing.
Who is to say what is right and wrong? Well, for the last thousands of years, it has been humans, human religion and human laws that has decided what is right and wrong, people with wealth and power. That is the truth of society. Then of course, these morals differs between different powers.
What truly is right or wrong is something that no one can decide, as you said, it's a mattr of perception, different for every individual on this planet. But that is only on a personal level.
Who is to say what is right and wrong? Well, for the last thousands of years, it has been humans, human religion and human laws that has decided what is right and wrong, people with wealth and power. That is the truth of society. Then of course, these morals differs between different powers.
What truly is right or wrong is something that no one can decide, as you said, it's a mattr of perception, different for every individual on this planet. But that is only on a personal level.
0
Maxiart wrote...
Now wait a bit. I was giving an example. I did not say I felt bad. I was talking more about some friends of mine..
sorry my bad...its a habit of mine...doesnt really mean a you thats YOU....just think of it as guy A
0
Yeah, I would probably consider myself an ethical egoist and so long as it doesnt affect my well being, I favour utilitarianism, while being a moral nihilist.
0
its funny that I,m on this site but i have morals
i like to think of myself like Kaien the character, something like chivalry.
i like to think of myself like Kaien the character, something like chivalry.
0
Brittany
FAKKU Production Mngr
In the case of murder, I have to say I wouldn't do it simply because what's just to one person is not just to another.
What validates a person to decide who lives or who dies? You then give them the power of 'god' for a persons Judgment Day.
What makes that person so special?
Stealing for example - I don't steal because it affects the whole store. It affects the employees, it can cause them to lose their jobs, and if bad enough can cause the whole store to go out of business.
Of course I don't feel as though one or two items will cause all of this - but I have seen people lose their jobs due to theft that didn't involve them.
If everyone had the mentality of 'well this one item won't hurt' then there'd be no business at all.
Consequences aren't usually in my mind when it comes to an act or decision I make - at least not directed towards me. I usually see consequences that happen to other people so I feel it's not my place to act selfishly in order to get what I want.
I have an issue with people who have the mentality of 'Well, I deserve this more because -" and will turn around and do something illegal just so they can get what they want at others expenses.
Why should that person be allowed to steal X merchandise? I work hard, I have little money, I still do what I can do afford what I can - why do they feel they deserve it more?
There's nothing wrong with self gratification, but I do see it as something wrong when it's turned at others expense in order to get what that person wants.
I feel that if I close myself to others and not think about their regards then I shouldn't expect anyone else to do the same for me.
What validates a person to decide who lives or who dies? You then give them the power of 'god' for a persons Judgment Day.
What makes that person so special?
Stealing for example - I don't steal because it affects the whole store. It affects the employees, it can cause them to lose their jobs, and if bad enough can cause the whole store to go out of business.
Of course I don't feel as though one or two items will cause all of this - but I have seen people lose their jobs due to theft that didn't involve them.
If everyone had the mentality of 'well this one item won't hurt' then there'd be no business at all.
Consequences aren't usually in my mind when it comes to an act or decision I make - at least not directed towards me. I usually see consequences that happen to other people so I feel it's not my place to act selfishly in order to get what I want.
I have an issue with people who have the mentality of 'Well, I deserve this more because -" and will turn around and do something illegal just so they can get what they want at others expenses.
Why should that person be allowed to steal X merchandise? I work hard, I have little money, I still do what I can do afford what I can - why do they feel they deserve it more?
There's nothing wrong with self gratification, but I do see it as something wrong when it's turned at others expense in order to get what that person wants.
I feel that if I close myself to others and not think about their regards then I shouldn't expect anyone else to do the same for me.
0
Well, in my case its not so much a "I deserve this" mentality, but a lack of concern about what my actions could mean to the faceless other. It is different with people I know or care about. And seriously, how little it is actually needed to make you care about someone? Anything can do it, to a degree. That is the nature of emotions.
So I suppose its more like that concern you talk about not being on by default. And if it is set-in too late, well, no use crying over spilled milk.
So I suppose its more like that concern you talk about not being on by default. And if it is set-in too late, well, no use crying over spilled milk.
0
@ZiggyOtaku: I'm gonna debate with you just because I can... It became long as shit though, so I spoilered it.
Spoiler:
0
I will do what I want and I don't care about what happens, or if it's right or wrong. I steal what I want and can't pay for, I punch who I don't like, and I say what I feel.
0
Most people I know that believe in morals only do because that is what they were taught growing up. They never even began to question it. I do not believe in morals because life is full of too many exceptions to say anything is absolute. Although I guess I have a little nihil in me.
0
My parents brought me up right yet I still lean torwards the dark side, but that doesn't mean I dont' do good things too.
0
kingandhishorse wrote...
My parents brought me up right yet I still lean torwards the dark side, but that doesn't mean I dont' do good things too.So the fact that you label yourself as being in the "dark side" means that to an extent you actually believe in morals, even if you don't follow them ?
0
mibuchiha
Fakku Elder
I think that anything which does not get in the way of others' freedom is okay. Ambiguous moral compass...
Also, do onto others what you wish to be done onto you.
Also, do onto others what you wish to be done onto you.
0
Maxiart wrote...
kingandhishorse wrote...
My parents brought me up right yet I still lean torwards the dark side, but that doesn't mean I dont' do good things too.So the fact that you label yourself as being in the "dark side" means that to an extent you actually believe in morals, even if you don't follow them ?
Yeah I guess. Though wether or not what you do is bad depends on the point of view of the people observing you and what they believe. It's all relative in my opinion.
0
I guess my acrions are mostly driven through consequence, much like Maxiart(Oh no I;m similar to you in a way, FLEE!) I fuck whatever feels good, leading to my bisexuality. If killing ere LEGAL I probably would do it, which iswhy it's a good thing it IS illegal, because I don't feel like going to jail forever, or going on death row for that moment of, "Fuckin right bitch! Who's laughing now?!"
Generally, I'm the complete opposite of catholics, in that MY outlook is, "If it feels good, keep doing it." whereas their outlook is, "If it feels good, stop."
Generally, I'm the complete opposite of catholics, in that MY outlook is, "If it feels good, keep doing it." whereas their outlook is, "If it feels good, stop."
0
I try to live by the simple law of "Act against others as you want them to act against you." This is of course almost impossible, since I will mostly do what is best for myself even if that means pushing other people down.
So I want to believe I live by a moral code, but also know that my actions are heavily relying on the consequences.
There seems to be a lot of discussion going on about wherever you would kill someone if it was legal. And I can say that I would probably not kill people, simply because I believe it to be wrong. Why should I have the power to decide if someone would live or die? If there was a conflict, why would I not try to find a solution that would benefit both of us? What would I gain from killing someone else? Except maybe a short-lived feeling of satisfaction and thrilling. But also a overwhelming feeling of guilt.
So I want to believe I live by a moral code, but also know that my actions are heavily relying on the consequences.
There seems to be a lot of discussion going on about wherever you would kill someone if it was legal. And I can say that I would probably not kill people, simply because I believe it to be wrong. Why should I have the power to decide if someone would live or die? If there was a conflict, why would I not try to find a solution that would benefit both of us? What would I gain from killing someone else? Except maybe a short-lived feeling of satisfaction and thrilling. But also a overwhelming feeling of guilt.