Okay...lolicon's okay in the US...but what is obscenity?

I'm having trouble figuring out exactly what is defined by 'obscene pornography' and why it is illegal. On Wiki, it concludes that lolicon is legal so long as it is not obscene. what does that mean? Wiki states that Obscenity is porn that violates the standard socially-acceptable norms of sexuality. Doesn't that cover lolicon? What 'community' finds kiddie cartoons fucking okay?

And also, in the '20 years for lolicon' thread, it says that [someone] got time for 'obscene text emails'. what defines obscene text? I think I understand that if you create [or merely possess] an 'obscene' piece of erotica, it isn't illegal, but if you transmit/send it, it is then illegal? but what if the other person is a consenting party who is 'into' the content of the email?

And this leads me to my final question; If this is the case, then how come ASSTR and Kristen's Archives are still running [and not pursued by the FBI 'anti-porn squad'?

The most relevant and famous US Supreme Court case about this is Miller v. California. Here is a link to the wikipedia article

Supreme Court Justice Potter Steward famously said of obscene material "what is obscene I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced . . . [b]ut I know it when I see it . . ." in another case.

Child porn has clear laws against it, but other than that, there hasn't always been a lot of consistency. Generally, other than child porn and loli(or other obviously illegal things like forcing unwilling parties to participate in making porn), things have been somewhat lax provided one isn't attempting to distribute them to minors or to put them out in public where everyone is forced to observe.

Loli especially has been contentious. Technically, it isn't listed as explicitly illegal as Canada law states for instance, but it has not yet been made clear whether "child porn" is broad enough to include loli. Generally, the answer has been no assuming no actual children are involved, but legislators and activists have been constantly challenging the status quo on this issue.

It's purposely left as a legal loophole. Simply, the U.S. government can't target someone for the posession of material that depicts a child because the laws of child pornography are set to protect the children involved, but no child is harmed either physically or mentally in depictions. However, there are sure to be studies going around that tries to correllate lolicon fans to pedophiles, but it'll never happen.

Right now it's neither particularly legal nor illegal to have lolicon in the United States. There was one court case that involved someone being arrested and prosecuted for the posession of lolicon, but it was only a tacked on charge. The man was actually arrested for CP, but they found the lolicon and tacked it onto his record. However, I believe when the judge sentenced him he only gave him the maximum jail time in accordance with the CP, not lolicon because he couldn't justify it.

Plus, Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition (2002), actually stated that the depiction of a minor "might" still be protected under the First Amendment.

obscene means 'morally loose', but what moral looseness means to a person/community/society/country/religion will always be different. ive decided to carry on with my life and not care about the whole lolicon ordeal because sooner or later itll either solve itself or reach a point where lolicon aint allowed to be published anymore. people will continue being ignorant over the material because they emphasize one point and pull a curtain over the other.

the emails the prosecuted sent probably detailed the idea of engaging in underage sex or ideas to get to that point. i think we're all on the same page when i say: lolis in the green, pedophilia isnt even on the traffic light. i can tolerate images of loli orgies because theyre IMAGES, one picture of an actual underage child doing something inappropriate and i wonder where the photographers life went wrong.

people need to grow up, lolis need to stay underage. 'nuff said.

Thanks all! So don't have real CP and don't send smut to those who don;t want to see it. Wilco!

I've been keeping up on this and in a recent case a man was arrested for pure loli. Now their are several things to know here 1 he was arrested for ordering loli manga second he GAVE UP. In short the supreme court ruled that loli is legal under first amendment rights. BUT some asshole found a loophole where if it crosses state borders it's illegal. In short keep it in your house, don't order in print and you should be cool. Their is some contention about sharing or obtaining online but eh it's the internet. Oh yeah about the second point first amendment groups were prepared to defend him but he gave u8p and let them send him to jail now this is bad because he could have made a fake precedent by that i mean the courts decided nothing but people may still try and say they did. If you want more I've been following this via sankaku complex

it's apparently not "OK" in the U.S.

That's the one i was talking about. Now part of the catch here is that even the protect act was deemed partially unconstitutional in this area. However they got him through a transportation loophole and when he gave up it gave them as i said before false precedent. It sucks I mean come on if this makes men wanna go out and rape real girls then why is it that asia where it is quite prolific has some damn low rape rates. Been looking at statistics oif those as well. Anywyas it's gray area legality.

Yep, I remember that one. If he would only just appeal it there is a good chance he could get the entire thing overturned.

I'm also willing to bet he was very public, and vocal about his collection. I doubt anyone would have made a fuss otherwise. There are bound to many other people who have collections like that in the U.S. that haven't gotten in legal trouble.

Like the article states, the only way for something to be deemed "obscene" is with some stupid test; you ask someone from your community if the image is in fact obscene. If they say it is, you're fucked, if not, they find another person. It's just a way for the government to scapegoat lolicons, otaku, and weeaboo instead of dealing with the real problem, which is pedophiles in yo playground, fuckin' yo children. I'd like to link some fucking graphs, which proves the government has their heads in their asses and likes to be fucktards.


As you can see, once the lolicon boom hits, crime rates drop a huge amount.
And some rape tables:
UN Statistics for 2000: Rapes per 100,000 people:
Canada-78.08==“Simple Possession”, Loli Manga Banned
Australia-77.79==“Simple Possession”, Loli Manga De Jure Banned
USA-32.05==“Simple Possession”, Loli Manga Banned (Constitutionally Invalid)
Sweden-24.47==“Simple Possession”, Loli Manga Banned
UK-16.23==“Simple Possession”, Loli Manga, BDSM to be Banned
France-14.36==“Simple Possession”
S. Korea-12.98==“Simple Possession”
Germany-9.12==“Simple Possession”
Russia-4.78
Taiwan-4.08
Japan-1.78==“Simple Possession” (Just introduced)

So, the place with the most lax laws on lolicon has the smallest rape per 100,000? good job, government.

Just as a side-note: Loli Manga is banned in Germany. Anything involving real or fictitious people "appearing to be under the age of 18" depicted as "engaging in sex or sexually arousing poses" is banned (§184c). In fact, that de facto outlaws most of hentai in Germany. BTW, an EU directive to that very effect, seeking to harmonize jurisprudence on these grounds, is currently in the works.

Actually the graph you show depicts a very sharp decrease in crimes until the lolicon boom begins, whereupon the decrease levels out and begins going up during the loli boom. After the bans, rates drop off sharply again. I'm guessing you didn't score very well on the ACT's science portion, did you?

I had the same mix up at first but look at the bottom. The 1960 part is at the far left so the in general high point is actually before. Simple mistake to make.

Oh yeah and a friend of mine says gotta always increase statistics from japan by 10% and lets say we do that and even add another for unreported crimes they still beat us.

It cannot be coincidence though that the space between the lolicon boom and the first lolicon ban occupies the bottoming out of the decline in sex crimes and the resurging increase.

After the 2008 Supreme Court ruling, is the Protect Act still valid? Did they amend or change it? Possessing virtual/drawn images of loli is legal as I know it (but I'm still not sure =__=). Does anyone think it is still safe to order books? There are plenty of manga and doujinshi on my order lists that are borderline, but I don't want to get into any kind of trouble...

As i said before it's gray area stuff. See the part concerning Loli manga was deemed unconstitutional even with protect BUT their's a catch if you transport or recive across borders they can get ya. But then this guy gave up so who knows. Now bear in mind that it's also cause of these stupid mail guys checking his stuff. So order at your own risk why i download. Now their is some contention on whether even online stuff ike that is "crossing borders". So fact is it's kinda like abortion pre woe v wade we just don't know and theirs no real precedent. So yeah posession legal for now at least ordering depends and no one knows cause he gave up but meh free legal council least he was gonna get that thx to free speech groups. So Yeah it's gray area or beige or pseudo legal and so on and so forth. sry had to add this I guess i'm just trying to say not even te feds know let aone local cops or anyone else in the U.S..

All porn is obscene. The only way to solve the problem is not give a damn what other people do unless helpless people are being harmed.

There is absolutely no justification for any law whatsoever against lolicon besides to feed the prison industrial complex. Which is an interesting matter, because even though maintaining prisons cost the tax payer, it still profits the lobbyists involved.

I find it disgusting that we live under a system where we have laws ONLY because it will profit someone else, and not to protect the people whatsoever.

If people would use common sense then it is not up to the court to decide what is obscene or illegal about lolicons since its only a matter of taste and interests.

The case about loli is the same as child pornography since it is the same principal.

Any image/video depicting a "Minor" Interacting in sexual intercourse is illegal and the person to possess such material is considered punished.

I guess it's the idea that most people find it disturbing and made it illegal or considered it a crime.