On the new TSA body scan/pat down

So as the holidays approach and people fly more, more and more airports are instituting either a full-body x-ray scan or a more aggressive pat-down for all passengers. Here are some relevant articles:



Do you think it is reasonable for the TSA to do this? Does it violate the Fourth Amendment? If you plan on flying, would you rather risk cancer or groping?

I obviously think it is a terrible, horrible idea, for the reasons stated in the articles I linked to. Why do we have to submit ourselves to the increased risk of cancer, theft, and sexual assault whenever we have to fly? And for what--the illusion of security? This is stupid, and even security experts say so.

More on the TSA fuckery:

Guess what? If you refuse the scan and pat-down and just choose to go home instead, you can STILL be fined up to $11,000. Holy fuck. Eleven grand just to not be groped and waste the money you paid for airfare.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/sfl-airport-scans-pat-downs-refual-20101121,0,5604032.story


A woman gets groped inside her underwear by a TSA agent. Seriously?!??!!?!

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/abc-producer-tsa-patdown-worse-gynecologist/

And a traveler who was wearing a urostomy bag was treated with no regard for his medical condition, and left a TSA pat-down covered in his own urine. PLUS he was not allowed to clean up until he boarded his plane and took off.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40291856/ns/travel-news/

Seriously people, this is bullshit.

That's a prime example of lacking common sense. Waving away the smoke but not putting out the fire.

But such is the nature of man- we'll spend forever chasing symptoms, because identifying and eliminating the root of the problem takes too much effort.

The irony in that is baffling.

Honestly it is violating our 4th amendment rights. They're really unnecessary and when they could be training dogs to do this they want these security ppl to basically grope you. Yeah no thanks I'll just travel to my white folks for the holidays if I have to cause i dont want ppl to see my junk.

As a young adult male, I can honestly say I would prefer the full body pat down. But its entirely understandable why some people are uncomfortable with this.

As to my opinion on whether or not its fair for the TSA to do this, I say it is. In terms of fatalities, terrorism may not be the biggest threat to our country at the moment. However, it definitely garners the most attention, and thats exactly what terrorist groups thrive upon. So I say its fair to take any means necessary to prevent terrorism.

However, the strict tightening of security won't do shit for our overall safety. Sure, we may be safer on airplanes, but they can always just find a different place to attack... I mean, does our government really think they're stupid enough to just quit once they cant get on a plane??? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Well before I heard about the cancer crap, I was like finally maybe it won't take so long to get to my plane actually early. Then my fiance was like you could die of cancer and it's so bad for our health. I was like....WTF? Why have it still? Are we trying to kill the American people? And this is not a Japanese train, I'm not going to stand still to have a fat, middle aged, low life grope me. I will brake his hands and probably go to jail.

I remember reading something about how in other countries they have a 5 tier security system that does not involve an invasive pat-down of your body and it works a hell of a lot better then ours.

To sum up the 5 tier system most of the security layers are guards just looking people in the eye and reading body language.

Vacation at home this holiday season!

I kind of find it wierd that people are still bitchin at airport security still.

don't wanta be patted down by Tyrone go thru the new xray machine.

I remember 2 days after 9-11 standing by the gates of the SF airport with a m-16 for your security. I still have to get manually search because of the metal in my body(bike accident not ied or something).

CT scans give way more radiation and likelihood of cancer than this.

And you know how often hospitals use it? Especially when they are absolutely unnecessary?

This does not at all violate our 4th amedment rights for the simple reason that flying is in no way a right - it is your choice and part of that choice means you are going to subjugate yourself to these searches.

Some of the things that the TSA has gotten in trouble for is just a lack of common sense on the part of the employees who do the screening. However, you get more radiation from doing a CT scan than a scan at the airport, and your get the same amount of radition from simply being in the air during your flight every five minutes.

Usually I favor liberty over security, but in this case it is your own choice to fly. Nobody is forcing you, so take a scenic bus ride if you don't want to fly because of the searches.

Just be careful about smelly passengers trying to do their own searches while you're sleeping.

I'm going to Texas and Sacramento in 3 weeks' time so I'd be expecting to experience what this is all about anyway. But as an outsider looking in, it's not at all a violation of the US' 4th Amendment.



First, it's authorized by the US government. After all, if something happens on the flight, like terrorist activities or violence in the plane, the US government and the TSA almost always get the flak in the media. So if they're "responsible" for it, then it's right they do something about it. It's sad that the TSA is wound up in a lose-lose situation - damn if they continue with this and damn if illegal materials get in the plane because some schmuck used his body to sneak in some illegal shit.

Let's give the complainers some leeway - the TSA can't fully assure their "pat-down officers" are not sexually motivated while their hands are moving on a passenger's body. And they're usually not medically adept enough to handle, like, urostomy bags.

I suggest that the TSA get privacy booths, and hire female gynecologists for women and male doctors for men to do the pat-downs and full body searches inside those places. Make it a medical thing so that these "we-wont-fly" people won't have any goddamn legal basis to complain anymore of the groping... heck, they can even just scrap the body scanners and have the medical staff handle the searching.

General consensus is, passenger airplanes are now safer. If terrorists can find other places to attack, please do. Let the TSA version for buses, boats, and ships do their thing. But if airplanes are safer now, they're doing their job.

Also, news says 4 out of 5 people agree with the pat downs and scans. It is only the 1 out of 5 that are complaining - they just happen to be complaining the loudly.

There is no breaking of the fourth amendment since the searches are authorized and not unreasonable, plus the TSA does have females pat down other females and males can request for another male. Some people just are making a fuss out of the principle of the matter and not out of practicality. I don't blame them though - you don't want to lose liberties while sitting on your hands. I just think that they are wrong in this instance.

Ah. That's what the handbook says. There are reports otherwise.

The problem is that not all airports follow proper procedures.

Medical items should be handled with care, and people should be patted down by the same sex, only deviating if there is no other choice at the time AND the person consents to opposite sex pat down. But a case like that should pretty much never happen anyways.

The problem is not because there is security measures.

It's that there are some fucking idiots that show up performing them occasionally.

But if a female felt uncomfortable that a male was going to pat her down, she could request that a female do the search, and vice-versa. Therefore its entirely the responsibility of the individual being patted down as to the sex of the employee doing the search. In most cases, the people complaining about being searched by someone of the opposite sex could have done something about it at any time. Plus, theres always the x-ray option for those who feel uncomfortable with it.

Ah, devil's advocate?

The complaint article I read was of someone who had just experienced the pat-down. It was essentially groping. If you were not previously aware of how the pat-down was going to be, and assumed it would be merely cursory, there would be no reason to insist on a same-sex agent, would there? As for the scanner... several times the amount of radiation output of an x-ray machine. I'm not going near that.

I don't doubt it. I'm sure that from the dozen of major airports and the millions that go through each one, that is going to happen - but it is going to be rare.

Also, this is somewhat new so there are going to be certain problems. Perhaps, they asked a lady if they could pat her down and she said yes because she did not want to miss her flight, complained later, and never knew she could request a female to do the pat down or was to shy to ask. There could also be no rules that say that an airport has to have both male and female agents available - perhaps there was no female TSA screeners at the time because someone called in sick or was on a lunch break.

It needs to be fixed, but not thrown out. The searches need to continue, but of course need to be refined.

Hi. I am not comfortable with groping or cancer. It needs to be thrown out. There are better ways.

Give this a read, por favor.

I wont concede that ignorance as to the nature of the search is an excuse for a complaint. The tightening of security and search protocol was pretty widely publicized, and there were warnings in both of the airports I've been to since the change. However, I do agree with you that in some situations, the pat-down does go overboard. If the search reaches the point of groping I believe that someone has every right to complain, but being uninformed is no excuse.

And I entirely agree with you on the point of the scanner, I would rather be groped than step through there =/

Edit: This was written before I saw the Isrealification article that you posted...