Should Scotland become an independent country?

Many people are faced with a choice of whether Scotland should become an independent country from the UK, and in 2014 the Scottish Government will hold a refferedum on independence. I'm not sure about the size of FAKKU's UK community, let alone the Scots one, but it would be interesting to here the perspective of people of different nationalities regarding Scottish independence, especially given our current status in the international community.

I myself am a diehard Scots-nationalist, and believe that Scotland can and should govern herself independently, but what is your opinion?

I think we got way too much nationalism going on in Europe, we have to shake hand and work together if we want to be something meaningfull not split up out of emotional reasons.

I voted for the third option, but really, I'm not Scottish, so I really feel it is up to the people of Scotland, not me. While Scotland becoming independent would make me sad, since I do love my country despite its rather massive problems, the will of the Scottish people should be respected, and I believe Scotland is more than capable of prospering on its own.

And really, I can hardly blame Scotland for wanting to be free of the Tories. Lord knows if it would get England freedom from the bastards I'd vote for independence in a heartbeat.


At the very least, it's quite clear that the majority of Scots do think the Scottish Parliament should have greater power over Scotland's affairs, and I would wholeheartedly support more powers being given to Scotland.

As a U.S. citizen as a forum goer i have to ask, WHY would Scotland even want to be a separate country? Some back ground facts would be nice as to have a prospective on my decision.

UK election results, 2010:



Obviously there's more to it than "fuck the Tories", but that's probably one of the most major factors, at least that I can see. As you can see from that map, Scotland only returned a single Conservative MP to parliament, and yet there is currently a Conservative government in Westminster and Scotland (along with most of the UK) is being fucked over by their policies despite most people in Scotland not voting for them. Thus, a lot of Scots, justifiably, feel that the government in Westminster does not represent them (and to be fair, the north of England probably feels similarly).

While an independent Scotland may end up electing neoliberal shitbags to govern them in the future, at least in that case it would be because Scotland voted for them, and not because the southeast of England did.

Yeah, everyone in Europe should just hold hands, sing Kumbaya and everything will be right in the world.

OR

We can acknowledge the reality that local governments are better able to represent their people rather than geographically distant ones. The U.K. government doesn't represent the Scottish people. That alone is justification for the Scottish people to leave and install a government that does represent them. That is unless you feel that liberal leaning people should be forced to live under a conservative government?

More power to Scotland has nothing to do with being independent. The US is way larger and still they can pull it off with radically different views in the different states. Why can't Europe Take that system of states and apply it?

Where me and Fiery will concur is this: America is politically dead, it's citizens are literally doormats who will vote Democratic or Republican simply based on the name tag. Whereas there was once a major difference between the North and South, there's really only a media manufactured "difference". The vast majority of Americans in the North/South will continue to vote for their respective politicians, irregardless of any actual differences.

No, seriously, try to work your way around American Logic:

President Obama: 45-47-ish% approval rating(depending on which poll you choose)
Congress approval rating: 10%

Does it not concur to our brain doormat citizens that Obama came from parliament? Hell, for that matter that every politician that ever held senior position COMES from parliament? Approving of a parliamental politician, just because he/she holds the title of "President" is just what an American would do.

The reason England can't copy American "Politics" is that for better and for worse, your citizens in Europe aren't brain dead tools. The Scottish want a Scottish government for them and I say "more power to them." If Britain can't sufficiently gain approval of her colonies and they have the right to independence, Britain will suffer the loss.

It's not about colonies all I'm saying is that Europe could have a federalgovernment while still giving certain autonomy to states (this would be former countries). The only thing that stands in the way of Europe doing this is nationalism. Countries like England just can't except that times have changed and they aren't powerfull alone.

Europe is moving slightly closer to having a federal EU government, but this has nothing to do with the current thread's question. Even under a EU government, the question would still stand whether Scotland would be part of it as a separate member state or as one part of the UK.

Loving this so far! Just thought I'd chuck a couple of things in to sweeten the conversation. :)

To answer your question Athio, there are a few main hot-topics regarding Scottish Independence at the moment here's just some of them.

The Trident Program: At the moment Scotland is the location of the UK's Nuclear Deterrent and, despite polls revealing the majority of Scottish Citizens not wanting to house nuclear weapons, we have no say in their storage under the current terms of Devolution. The SNP (Scottish National Party) have promised the removal of Trident.

Currency: Scotland desires to keep Sterling as its currency. This may be a pro considering the somewhat unstable Eurozone situation but may be a con since interest rates on sterling are determined by the bank of England.

The North South Divide: In addition to cultural difference, Scotland has different political interests than the rest of the UK. Scotland has voted for the more left wing and collectivist Labour party in nearly every general election but has received a Tory government 52% of the time. Recently the implementation of the Bedroom Tax by the Conservative coalition has led to further resentment against English conservatives in Westminster.

Natural Resources and Renewable Energy: Scotland contains the majority of the UK's resources such as Oil and Coal but issues arise over who would get how much of any resources, and because of its positions in the Atlantic ocean has the potential to create a £39bn renewable energy network that could, in theory, power a 1/4 of the European mainland, which as a devolved power we have less funds to begin.

The Armed Forces: an Independent Scotland would need its own standing army and there is fierce debate over just how powerful it should be.

Europe: Euroscepticism and right wing populism is becoming more popular in England, as illustrated by UKIP's local council electoral victory over the LibDems and David Cameron's promise of a referendum on Europe in 2016, but Scotland has a strong desire to remain in Europe, as illustrated by the UKIP leader Nigel Farage being thrown out of a pub and being forced to return to England with a police escort.

Regardless of one's political affiliations, there's no reason to treat an honest statesman like that. I sincerely hope that Farage is capable of continuing his work as a statesman while those who assailed him are held to justice.

Even as I converted to Fascism, I still hold Farage to be a wonderful statesman who has held British Independence from the E.U above all else.

From the issues surrounding Currency, to the North/South divide, Eurospecticism as well as Rewnewable energy give much more clarity on Scotland's posiiton and mine on the independence of Scotland.

I view Scotland in the same position, as the Okinawa Prefecture currently is in surrounding the U.S. and Japanese governments, and the military situation over there. Just as I concur with the Japanese that I'd like nothing more than to remove our forces from that prefecture, I believe Scotland has all the right to its national independence, and its desire to yet remain a part of the European Family is a legitimate aspiration.

However, my official vote was "No, but they should be given more power". I lament that there wasn't a Fourth Option, which holds more to my position: "Yes, but it should probably be a delicate process."

Having an independent nation is no small feat(see the U.S.A and our various challenges in the 18th/19th centuries.) In order for a truly independent Scotland, I believe it should do so in steps and stages. Along with support from the International Community, those of you in Scotland can be assured that for what its worth, you have my endorsement.

Allright: allot of those problems seem to be highly political. It seems like nothing too much more drastic then the party devide you see in every U.S. election. I.E. the bible belt vs. eastern coast. So to me i think the scotts should try the hardest they can to break into the government. Or if it's really that bad for the scotts and they can't change anything in a few years, indipendence would be the option. Warented it dosen't go down the way U.S. independence did. Obtaining independence would have to be taken carefully.

(i voted no, but get more power if that wasn't ovbious.)

Farage is an unworthy of any respect as a politician as he doesnt treat other people with respect. for example look the video up with hum raging about the EU president. He is one of those people that are the origin of conflict and dead of cooperation. British independence is nothing more then nationalistic people who can't accept that they do not rule the biggest empire in history anymore.

What about those other nations who want to remove themselves from the E.U? Greenland, among several other European nations(There's a movement in Greece lately) in response to the debt crisis, and the lack of stability of the Euro?

The E.U is only as legitimate as the Nation States in it, if the Nation States cannot concur on the European issues, the Union collapses on its feet.

What he "hum raged" about, which another European Poster pointed out in a different thread was that Rompuy wasn't elected by his peers, but rather by the European Council.

And given the British economic troubles, they have the rights to Nationalize their economy and currency. I myself, want to do the same for America. A majority of Americans are moving towards Nationalistic ideals(albeit through Party Lines).

Greenland left the EU decades ago (and I'd hardly call it a European country, more a North American dependency of a European country). You sure you thinking of the right country there?

I'm no Euro expert, I was speaking more in generalities, which is lately in the 21st century there is a growing populist movement against the E.U due to economic inefficiencies and seeming loss of political capital inside of the union.

You could stop antagonizing me, please?

States can leave if they want, there is no obligation. But thats not really the point, they can do it and I dont think they should be restricted. However I think that this would be a step backwards.



What he really was raging about was the fact that it didn't go to an englishman. But regardless the way he did it was totally unacceptable and frankly he should have been removed from the room at that point.



The Britisch have always distanced themselfs from Europe with or without good reasons, the Union might have done way better if the Nation States had really gone for Union istead of all clinging to sentimental nationalistic ideas.

While on the surface we appear to have several different states, the reality is, those states are almost powerless because the Federal government has all the power. If a state steps too far out of line the Feds will target it and find a way to punish the state by threatening to pull federal funding for it's schools, roads, among other things. If a particular politician steps too far out of the line then the Feds will target him with the IRS like Obama, Nixon, Roosevelt and others have done in the past.

We just have a good public relations department to make everyone think it's sunshine and rainbows over here when it's F.U.B.A.R.

That wasn't meant to be antagonising, my apologies if it came across that way.


I'd say anti-EU sentiment is probably strongest in Britain (because we've always thought we're too cool for school) and the countries who are currently being ravaged by destructive austerity policies, like Greece, Spain, etc.

But personally, I don't see what any of this has to with Scottish independence. From what I understand, most Scots wish to remain part of the EU on independence.