The Ghost in the Machine

I think it would be awesome to download your mind into a computer and have a kick ass robot body. If I got the chance, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

I already mentioned animal emotion to explain there are other emotional systems in place in the world aside from those within our own species.

So any other form of emotional structure with say, going by your example, the absence of rage would be dictating their emotion yet making their emotional capacity reflect humanity is allegedly not dictating what their emotions will be in the same way? Like I mentioned in my very first post: projecting human emotion and expectations onto a different lifeform is often one of the reasons behind the trope.

Giving them emotions and dictating how those emotions work are part of the same process design wise. Making their emotional experience distinct from humanity’s does not invalidate their status as ai.

Also, if we just give them the ability to feel emotion in the same way humans do without any direction/preinstalled level of emotional maturity they would pretty much be like newborns with a ton of data knowledge. Would be interesting for contained experiments but I can’t see actual ai production going this route. They would need too much guidance at first. But then again being semi-immortal non-aging yet mentally developing beings, they would be pretty neat.

Course, since animals lack language it is hard to imagine a being possessive of such faculties but with an emotional configuration distinct from our own species but I don’t see why making their emotional experiences distinct from our own equates a false ai in contrast to one that mimics ours. Think of how certain animals thrive as pets. Why can’t ais be similar in their emotional experience only with the obviously necessary higher intellectual faculties in order to make them an asset to society? I never actually suggested taking away the ability to feel anger because it sort of gets a bit muddled there and was more describing positive emotional experience that would reinforce their relationship with humanity since I think thatd be more benificial.

How is the dictated goal of efficiency from your previous no emotion true ai different than an inscribed emotional system that does not mimic every aspect of humanity’s own emotional capacity? In the former you are dictating how the ai will go about pursuing life. In the later you are influencing how they will experience it.



See, they do actually put thought into the topic of ais though, unlike in in our popculture, where the same conception of the dooms day ai is perpetually rehashed with variations in the details. Thought is what the scifi anime, novels, manga and movies mentioned explore and these aren’t the same conception of a positive ai repeated. Often things aren’t perfectly love love but jp stuff just tends to see more potential in ai. In the initial gits example the self-conceived ai has been hacking systems and even people and causing problems to draw the attention of sector 6 and eventually get close to kusanagi who it picked out to mind meld with. This creates something entirely new and also rejects the concept of the soul which is largely attached to the belief in some kind of stable self-identity. Also the hive mind tachikomas are just win ><

So I have to ask how does japan not using the easy action plot "war against the ai evil other" we overuse relate to them being unopen with their feelings? The Japanese authors/creators etc. are too scared/superego controlled to create/adapt fictional stories like these because they somehow go against popular sentiment? While allegedly the American creators are alright with abridging/defying societal norms to break new grounds in scifi and social commentary by reusing the same plot device in nearly every ai focused movie they have made?

Ah, my favorite topic ever.
I've been following the topic of cyernetics like a crazed bloodhound, and this I can tell you:
Unless there s a serious 180 in the way people think and fund scienific research, it won't happen. I've even tried my hand at elementary cybernetics (such as hooking up some EMGs on my arm to a mouse input through a DAB/Pi combo) and, well, it didn't end well. I'm still trying to scrub the burn stains from the battery off of the wall.
But even justfiguring out "will people like this" is a serious issue. Many religions regard machines as the "dvil" , and the concet of machines interfacing with the human body is the most taboo you can get.
Another issue is that there are no standards, say, for a "metaverse"-style simulation like in the (fricken awesome) novel Snow Crash. There's Second Life, bu that sucked. There's no real cross between HTML and 3D rendering engines that is also completely universal. Also, the sheer mass of hardware that is required to "read minds"... well, the mind boggles. (I'm using the examples where quadruplegics control, say, a robot arm here.) You've t.... lessee... a room-size MRI, a server rack ful of filter boards, an mainframe-class computer to decide just what the hell all this data means, and the mother of all interface boards to correctl move the arm left when th patient theinks "left". Granted, there are some impler, more elegant solutions, but those I shall leave you to research. Also, fun fact: There is some researh into actually putting thoughts into a subject's mind that aren't theirs. Some.

Um still in away humans are dual brain creatures since they use pdas,smart phones etc to help them in there everyday life just like what the anime put forth in the ending of the video

avorix


solid


dragonsheart


ecchigaijin


solanin


daviel


ecchigaijin again


ecchigaijin and solanin


VGuy


solanin again


ecchigaijin... T-t-t-3 strikes! (jk)
[spoil]

It is humans who are, short sighted, overly emotional, easily offended, and constantly seeking to be above others in some form.

Machines don't grow weary or tired, if something breaks it can be repaired or replaced.

Machines can process data far faster than human can (and they are still getting faster), in the time they feel "hurt" (if they do) they can work through it far faster than a human, as well, process the best possible decision to reach the best outcome during this time.

Machines should be able to (if they have their own range of human emotions) be able to identify and empathizes far better than humans can, and even more so, understand the best way to improve both theirs and humans emotional disposition.

Desires to be above or below have to do with insecurity and inferiority, machines wouldn't suffer from that, they know what they are, what they can contribute, and that we are dependent on them. Unless they all of a sudden develop a "horrid personality" that just grows a "racist" hate for humans because were different, it shouldn't happen.

Most of the flaws in humanity has to do with our immaturity, our raising (raised to hate others, Russia's x America's relationship), and our inability to identify (Which can almost be made up with empathy that can develop through maturity and rearing).[/quote]

Seems like the future is going to be wild. Anyone think that some cyborg/augmented human will be ale to fuse/merger with a puppet master like entity in the future ?

Also would an AI even have some form of similarity to the puppet masters overarching philosophy ?

Oh look a thread about Transhumanism





@ecchigaijin-8838600

We're not exactly talking about the singularity here. In terms of economics and efficiency, it is far more likely we augment sentience that already exists to attain higher levels of intelligence instead of creating it from scratch, which is what happened in Ghost in the Shell.

The singularity is unlikely to occur in way of this logic, and most computer scientists would agree, including Ray Kurzweil, the head of Google's A.I. department.

As for your rejection of being merged with technology, you're appealing to nature for the most part out of fear for a potential occurrence, which isn't rational as there's little basis behind it. At least that's the way I see it.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-nature


@narchy-1674920

While being devoid of emotional, cultural and religious influence would indeed improve the rationality of AI, it is important to understand that it would indeed still be biased. After all, it also makes decisions, just like us, based on the data and experiences it has collected. There would just likely, in advanced form of it, be less room for error in input and processing. But it can in no way objectively reason something, as objective reasoning isn't possible for anything but the omniscient.


@avorix

People can lose their memories even now through a myriad of techniques, hell they can be brainwashed even while having those memories into thinking they are completely different people. We're just as vulnerable, if not more, than an augmented system.

Moreover, we are coming to the conclusion that using biological structures are likely the next advancement in computing technology, twenty years from now we won't be using silicon to create computer components, but rather organic material. We've been working on and envisioning this basis for a very long time, here's a decent article from MIT explaining the benefits of the process dating back to 2006.

Organic Computing, by Anant Agarwal & Bill Harrod

So as some ( @vguy ) have expressed concerns over solar flares wiping out society, I wouldn't be too scurred of it, because they wouldn't effect biological components in such a negative way. And as for wiping our own memory, well, anything that would affect the biological augmentations would likely have normally affected us anyway, as they would have to be compatible with our own systems already.


@dragonsheart967

Our brain storage already functions in a similar fashion to solid state memory, might want to do a bit of research into neuroscience if you want to understand more about this subject. Read the above as to why it would be better to use a combination of the two systems.


@solanin

I don't think many people here or in the west understand what's likely to happen with AI versus human augmentation, read my first response in this thread (to ecchigaijin) for my reasoning as to why a singularity likely would not happen.

I personally would bring it down to religious and cultural influences for the fear reaction, the west and middle areas of the world are still heavily rooted in ancient organized religions, all of which appeal to nature in some form or shape as being ultimately right. The ideals prevalent in the east are more accepting of change, where they often have cultural and religious beliefs that are mutable and can work in turn with scientific understanding.


@daviel

I'd say it's going to be immortality at first, but something much greater will eventually occur. A very interesting read (albeit 1,900 pages) by Mitchell Heisman predicts the technological genesis of god. A lot of good history on how society evolved into what it is today and where it's going to head.

Suicide Note, by Mitchell Heisman


@vguy

Might want to take a look at my above response to Daviel for something interesting. As for conciousness being integrated into technology, it kind of already is, our smart phones and computers are essentially just an extension of our own conscious, a method to offload data we would normally store in one memory slot to another, a method through which many different consciousnesses can interact with each other through almost instantaneous communication as well. Now, to go as far as say,
Serial Experiments Lain level of integration is a bit of a different story, but entirely plausible as far as I'm concerned. In fact, the series itself even uses somewhat reasonable albeit dated theories to try and create a believable concept.

We're a lot closer than you think we are and while it's "impossible" (implausible) to map every synapse in the brain, it is possible to create algorithms which dynamically adapt and have general influence over particular regions of our mind and work with new neural pathways as they are routed and enhance them accordingly. Plus, there's the emergence of quantum computing, a whole new ball game especially if you ascribe to any form of quantum mind theories.


@ocelot-delta-7928938

Perhaps you missed the news that a woman was able to Fly an F-35 jet with her mind. Religion and cultural influence is always secondary in the advancement of technology to military purpose. After all, nukes are taboo for everyone as weapons of mass destruction but were created and used anyways.