What if? (a philosophical question)
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I do think that the monetary system has its flaws. However there needs to be a root motivating factor for people to work, and thus, make things and provide services. Perhaps the monetary system can be modified, such as adding in more of a barter system for goods.
Also on a side-note health care and services should be readily available for people of all financial means. There shouldn't be this high cost to medical services. A lot of countries have free healthcare, I am not certain as to why there's such an uproar about that here in the USA. Health care, the base act of HEALING someone who is SICK so that they may live and thrive and get better should not come with such a hefty price tag attached. No one should be turned away because they have less financial means.
Also on a side-note health care and services should be readily available for people of all financial means. There shouldn't be this high cost to medical services. A lot of countries have free healthcare, I am not certain as to why there's such an uproar about that here in the USA. Health care, the base act of HEALING someone who is SICK so that they may live and thrive and get better should not come with such a hefty price tag attached. No one should be turned away because they have less financial means.
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Fadetoblack wrote...
I remember coming across a quote that said, 'Out of all the species living on the planet Earth, humans are the only one that has to pay,' and that got me thinking: What if we didn't have to pay for anything? What if people just made things for everyone, and did things that benefited humanity as a whole for the sake of simply doing it? Think about it: we'd never really have to pay for anything. We'd simply make it and give it to someone that asks or needs it. Wealth would be non-existent because everyone gets whatever they want, simply because we're all equal and never have to pay for it. Health would be up since people don't have to pay for prescriptions or hospital visits (seriously, have you seen what they charge you for? $300 just to ride in the ambulance!) I personally belive life would be better if everything was distrubited evenly without a price attached to it.Pic Related to my point:
Spoiler:
What's your opinion? I'd really like to hear what everyone thinks.
WE ALREADY DO THAT ON A SMALL SCALE ITS CALLED FAMILY OR BEING NEIGHBORLY!
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Humans will never do something else for someone just because they ask for it. Always something is asked for in return, be it physical or not.
Before there was currency, people bartered for items. Or worked or had slaves. Currency just makes the arbritrary value of something more widespread rather than the price differing from person to person. After all if you didn't have a PS3, then having a copy of Uncharted would be worthless to you. Just having a disc you can't use is worth much less than maybe some meat you can eat, or a plunger just in case your toilet is backed up. However because of currency it still keeps some worth to you because it is worth a certain amount if you were to sell it to a pawn shop or maybe a Gamestop.
Currency is there to streamline sales. Without it, there would be no factories or companies to mass-produce products and we would be living like the Amish.
Before there was currency, people bartered for items. Or worked or had slaves. Currency just makes the arbritrary value of something more widespread rather than the price differing from person to person. After all if you didn't have a PS3, then having a copy of Uncharted would be worthless to you. Just having a disc you can't use is worth much less than maybe some meat you can eat, or a plunger just in case your toilet is backed up. However because of currency it still keeps some worth to you because it is worth a certain amount if you were to sell it to a pawn shop or maybe a Gamestop.
Currency is there to streamline sales. Without it, there would be no factories or companies to mass-produce products and we would be living like the Amish.
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That my dear is called socialism and if there's a group of people deciding what to make it would be called communism, which by the way is a utopia and a very good idea, but unfortunately it wouldnt work due to the selfishness of the people(human nature). Karl maxx and many others tried and failed miserably, that is just the sad truth about humanity, people are not born good since they are not born good, such society can never exist.
BTW the only model thats remotely possible would be the 1 in star trek... which is kinda sad...where everyone do what they wish to improve their lives(science arts etc) while basic means of living are provided by the machines, and their form of entertainment was space exploration(instead of watching the fucking tv)...and o did i mention how there was a nuclear holocaust and an alien visit in the star trek universe to enable all that to happen?
BTW the only model thats remotely possible would be the 1 in star trek... which is kinda sad...where everyone do what they wish to improve their lives(science arts etc) while basic means of living are provided by the machines, and their form of entertainment was space exploration(instead of watching the fucking tv)...and o did i mention how there was a nuclear holocaust and an alien visit in the star trek universe to enable all that to happen?
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People isn't that kind.
Even if it may sound like an ideal world for some, you must consider that most people will not work for others out of good will, to date humankind has lived on a system based on currency, even before that, humans used to trade items, slaves, or simply worked to gain what they wanted.
Sure maybe some will help people related to them like their family or close friends, but when it comes to complete strangers; Are you sure they will? I know I won't.
And even so, nobody would want to do anything, as they will be able to try living just by asking somebody else to do everything for them, and the ones that are productive definitely will demand for something in exchange for whatever they do, may it be a product or a service, turning the system into a mess.
A "I help you out so you has to help me out later" system is something that won't work in this day and age, now that most of modern society has completely adopted a currency and social status based system that mankind live in.
OT: OP sorta of sounds like Ronaldo Kuriki
Even if it may sound like an ideal world for some, you must consider that most people will not work for others out of good will, to date humankind has lived on a system based on currency, even before that, humans used to trade items, slaves, or simply worked to gain what they wanted.
Sure maybe some will help people related to them like their family or close friends, but when it comes to complete strangers; Are you sure they will? I know I won't.
And even so, nobody would want to do anything, as they will be able to try living just by asking somebody else to do everything for them, and the ones that are productive definitely will demand for something in exchange for whatever they do, may it be a product or a service, turning the system into a mess.
A "I help you out so you has to help me out later" system is something that won't work in this day and age, now that most of modern society has completely adopted a currency and social status based system that mankind live in.
OT: OP sorta of sounds like Ronaldo Kuriki
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Fadetoblack wrote...
Spoiler:
This would be based on the assumption that humans are naturally and boundlessly selfless in nature and that we can be motivated without the prospects of any gain. I could understand this in adherence to local communities in which people know the faces of others, can't ignore their suffering. But on a larger scale, I don't know if people can selflessly give to others.
If we were to use how interested, country a, is in the domestic and economic affairs of country b, c, d, especially if the country has no tie in with said country's affairs (Example: Tibet/Syria). Another example of would be the concept of "universal health care" to the US. I would assume humans selfless nature has an extent, that it is not boundless by default. (Not saying that their can't be such a person though, I would assume they are a by product of amazing education/background). A video I watched a little while back discussed some bits about human empathy, how we can feel more compassionate for a smaller number of victims of a tragic event than we can for larger. That we are inherently unable to process so many lives at a time. How, when we see a single person suffering it hurts us but when we see a group suffering it does not hurt us in scale to the growth in numbers, we even lose as much sympathy as we had for an individual and see them as a interchangeable member of the group. The video later states that this may be a defensive mechanism, if we felt in parallel to a mass, it could potentially damage us.
I think selflessness can work, but only on a local scale (sorta makes me wonder if humans are made, by nature, to live in small groups). But we need something that can work with a global community. I think machines might be a good way, if all labor is replaced by machines, human no longer have the role of the "cog". Which would only leave a mass of people of equal social standing with nothing to do (assuming we have near limitless supplies/material) we would all simply live benefiting off machine labor. Of course their are numerous flaws with this (let alone the idea of those of high social status would accept giving up that position to be of equal footing with everyone else is an unbelievable possibility), to the point that it scares me, but it seems to be the direction were heading in. Once 3d printers become as common place as cellphones... I wonder what humanity will be like. Medicine, food, tools, ect... All at the convenience of a printer.
(Soo many replies I want to respond too)
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Its very simple
Reason why such a world cannot exist is because of human nature. Humans will never be satisfied. Even if we had everything in the known universe you'd hear someone utter the words "I wish i had" or "If only someone invented something that did..." It's because of our unending desire to obtain everything that we cannot settle for what we currently have. If everything in this world was shared between all humans perfectly there will always be a percentage that will want more. Another reason is because of our creativity and inventive nature. Once we obtain everything we start creating things we want. Our minds are so brilliant that it's impossible to "have everything". One last reason if because of our corrupt nature. If you have good, you have bad. If you have someone giving away things, you have someone taking things. We will never get rid this part of us. We will never be satisfied, we will never stop creating things to fill the void that is our desires and we will never get rid of our bad side. Since getting rid of our bad side is also getting rid of our good side. You cannot create light without casting a shadow.
Reason why such a world cannot exist is because of human nature. Humans will never be satisfied. Even if we had everything in the known universe you'd hear someone utter the words "I wish i had" or "If only someone invented something that did..." It's because of our unending desire to obtain everything that we cannot settle for what we currently have. If everything in this world was shared between all humans perfectly there will always be a percentage that will want more. Another reason is because of our creativity and inventive nature. Once we obtain everything we start creating things we want. Our minds are so brilliant that it's impossible to "have everything". One last reason if because of our corrupt nature. If you have good, you have bad. If you have someone giving away things, you have someone taking things. We will never get rid this part of us. We will never be satisfied, we will never stop creating things to fill the void that is our desires and we will never get rid of our bad side. Since getting rid of our bad side is also getting rid of our good side. You cannot create light without casting a shadow.
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In my view it would kill society...Naturally we as humans are greedy and want "something" whether it be diamonds, gold, money, or anything of value.
Interesting thing Micheal talks about is MONEY or payment for anything has no value. It only gains value by the society.
Interesting thing Micheal talks about is MONEY or payment for anything has no value. It only gains value by the society.
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To me honest, I'm just here out of boredom , I'm not really looking for a debate so I'll try to summarize my point:
You say that the Human species is the only one that has to pay. True, but the species that don't pay for food and comfort are willing to kill for it and they do. Without human interaction, Nature knows how to strike balance so that when an animal dies, it feeds another in an infinte cycle. We could do something similar but as an intelligent (sometimes dumb) species we have found civilization which is what we've been trying to do for ages.
This is where your utopic idea comes in and I think I can summarize in one word: Talent.
We can't all be neurosurgeons, someone has to collect garbage. Granted, sanitation is crucial but would you be willing to trade brain surgery for trash pick up?
You say that the Human species is the only one that has to pay. True, but the species that don't pay for food and comfort are willing to kill for it and they do. Without human interaction, Nature knows how to strike balance so that when an animal dies, it feeds another in an infinte cycle. We could do something similar but as an intelligent (sometimes dumb) species we have found civilization which is what we've been trying to do for ages.
This is where your utopic idea comes in and I think I can summarize in one word: Talent.
We can't all be neurosurgeons, someone has to collect garbage. Granted, sanitation is crucial but would you be willing to trade brain surgery for trash pick up?
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The problem is that money makes the world function. A world that doesn't run on money would seem to be ideal. One way to do that is through trading goods for goods, as you have stated. That was the system of the past, but the world today has expanded in both size and need. Trading goods might work on small systems but the need for goods today is too great for that. Countries need a large amount of goods and if they trade their own goods with another, then there would be no way to keep up with the demand. Unless of course everyone had a substantial amount of resources.
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I wish this was how the world worked...
But there is a couple problems...
People claim the reason this sort of world can't exist is because humans are selfish, lazy, and only want to spite other humans... That's untrue. That is not human nature. That is simply the nature of our culture. We have taught ourselves to be selfish, lazy, and spiteful.
This idea that if this were to happen, humans wouldn't do anything, because they won't be motivated to do so, is a self-perpetuated idea, that we have imposed on ourselves, where money is the only way to live...
We have enough food and housing to give to everyone, and still live more than comfortably, yet we choose to create this system of hierarchy, where those with money are at the top, and at the very bottom are those without.
It's only an excuse used to keep people with power, powerful. I feel like I sound like a conspiracy theorist, but if ever there was a conspiracy in this world, it is this one. That greatest conspiracy in human history, and we're all contributing to it...
How do we fix it? We can't... Why not? We need money. Typical.
Basically, we'd have to start small. Humans are too habitual, and getting every human off of the idea of money, would be like getting a meth addict off of meth.
We can't just tell everyone in one country "Hey, stop using money, it's officially worthless," because other countries still use it, and now you are at a disadvantage, because any sort of import you relied on is probably gone, unless you can find an alternative to trade with... Assuming they don't decide to just ignore you for having values different from their own...
You'd either have to start with multiple countries, that trade with each other regularly, and expand from there, or just create small communities where money is not an object, and distribution is determined by merit, and everything you need is created within the community... But in order to do this, you'd need land, which costs money, no matter how you think of it.
In short, it's a shitty system, but we're probably stuck with it, until an alien race comes down to Earth, and says, "Hey humans, wtf are you doing, pretending to believe that paper has value?"
Unless it was the aliens themselves that taught humans to use money, as an experiment, just how we taught that group of apes (I think Orangutans?) to use money to "buy" food from the scientists, and they ended up prostituting themselves for "money"...
But there is a couple problems...
People claim the reason this sort of world can't exist is because humans are selfish, lazy, and only want to spite other humans... That's untrue. That is not human nature. That is simply the nature of our culture. We have taught ourselves to be selfish, lazy, and spiteful.
This idea that if this were to happen, humans wouldn't do anything, because they won't be motivated to do so, is a self-perpetuated idea, that we have imposed on ourselves, where money is the only way to live...
We have enough food and housing to give to everyone, and still live more than comfortably, yet we choose to create this system of hierarchy, where those with money are at the top, and at the very bottom are those without.
It's only an excuse used to keep people with power, powerful. I feel like I sound like a conspiracy theorist, but if ever there was a conspiracy in this world, it is this one. That greatest conspiracy in human history, and we're all contributing to it...
How do we fix it? We can't... Why not? We need money. Typical.
Basically, we'd have to start small. Humans are too habitual, and getting every human off of the idea of money, would be like getting a meth addict off of meth.
We can't just tell everyone in one country "Hey, stop using money, it's officially worthless," because other countries still use it, and now you are at a disadvantage, because any sort of import you relied on is probably gone, unless you can find an alternative to trade with... Assuming they don't decide to just ignore you for having values different from their own...
You'd either have to start with multiple countries, that trade with each other regularly, and expand from there, or just create small communities where money is not an object, and distribution is determined by merit, and everything you need is created within the community... But in order to do this, you'd need land, which costs money, no matter how you think of it.
In short, it's a shitty system, but we're probably stuck with it, until an alien race comes down to Earth, and says, "Hey humans, wtf are you doing, pretending to believe that paper has value?"
Unless it was the aliens themselves that taught humans to use money, as an experiment, just how we taught that group of apes (I think Orangutans?) to use money to "buy" food from the scientists, and they ended up prostituting themselves for "money"...