Which is better, believing in a god or not?
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littleRED wrote...
Koyori wrote...
Is there any stories of someone being punished for doing what god said? If there is not then there's not really any dilemma.The dilemma actually never ends. It starts with the question, if God really exists or not. Than goes on about whether you are a member of the right religious system or not. If you are the follower of the right religious system, there is the question if the whole system is right, or it got maybe written down wrong. And there is always the interpretation of sacred texts, which gave us so many sub categories of every major religion in the first place.
And btw there is a story about someone who got everything right and was punished and tortured anyway: Job.
It would just mean that doing what god says is the right choice right now is the right choice. If there weren't any examples of it working the other way around
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Koyori wrote...
littleRED wrote...
Koyori wrote...
Is there any stories of someone being punished for doing what god said? If there is not then there's not really any dilemma.The dilemma actually never ends. It starts with the question, if God really exists or not. Than goes on about whether you are a member of the right religious system or not. If you are the follower of the right religious system, there is the question if the whole system is right, or it got maybe written down wrong. And there is always the interpretation of sacred texts, which gave us so many sub categories of every major religion in the first place.
And btw there is a story about someone who got everything right and was punished and tortured anyway: Job.
It would just mean that doing what god says is the right choice right now is the right choice. If there weren't any examples of it working the other way around
Well, there isn't ever an instance of one doing what god says being the wrong choice, that much is true. But there are a vast amount of distinct instances where what god commands, or feels is acceptable, is inconsistent. Sort of a "Don't kill. Unless I tell you to. And I'm allowed to do it with no consequence." situation.
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BigLundi wrote...
JokerFight wrote...
Well,in my teachings,we just cleanse ourselves for sins we've done in Hell.
By having ourselves tortured in fire.We don't stay there permanently.It's just those who don't believe in Islam will stay there permanently.
Note:Clear enough?I may go to Hell,but yet I will return to Heaven after being cleansed.
Edit:We are being tortured in Hell for the sins we made on Earth in order to cleanse ourselves from taint.After being cleansed, we go to Heaven.
I don't find the doctrine that anyone goes to hell 'temporarily' supported by any holy text. However, if that's true, and you killing your children as a Muslim results in temporary hell, while me NEVER killing my children, yet being an atheist means I go to eternal hell, brings up another issue, where your religion is so incredibly bias and unjust, that I should wonder why you embrace the teachings of such a spiteful and petty god.
Umm,hey,I chose to go to Hell.Not my kids will go there.
At least,we don't mock people's perspectives.
But I understand this.I believe in the concept of betrayal.
God made humans.For Humans who don't believes he exist,is a betrayal toward Him.
For He have made us to live.He deserved to be honoured what he have done.Therefore, to be believed.
Note:This concept have nothing to do with the teachings of Islam.This is the result I've made after critical thinking and rational aspects.
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BigLundi wrote...
Koyori wrote...
littleRED wrote...
Koyori wrote...
Is there any stories of someone being punished for doing what god said? If there is not then there's not really any dilemma.The dilemma actually never ends. It starts with the question, if God really exists or not. Than goes on about whether you are a member of the right religious system or not. If you are the follower of the right religious system, there is the question if the whole system is right, or it got maybe written down wrong. And there is always the interpretation of sacred texts, which gave us so many sub categories of every major religion in the first place.
And btw there is a story about someone who got everything right and was punished and tortured anyway: Job.
It would just mean that doing what god says is the right choice right now is the right choice. If there weren't any examples of it working the other way around
Well, there isn't ever an instance of one doing what god says being the wrong choice, that much is true. But there are a vast amount of distinct instances where what god commands, or feels is acceptable, is inconsistent. Sort of a "Don't kill. Unless I tell you to. And I'm allowed to do it with no consequence." situation.
And again, just because the first case is documented and the 2nd isn't, doesn't mean those writings are right(complete. After all, why would someone stick to God's rules, if the outcome is punishment no matter if we follow them or not.
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JokerFight wrote...
Umm,hey,I chose to go to Hell.Not my kids will go there.
At least,we don't mock people's perspectives.
But I understand this.I believe in the concept of betrayal.
God made humans.For Humans who don't believes he exist,is a betrayal toward Him.
For He have made us to live.He deserved to be honoured what he have done.Therefore, to be believed.
Note:This concept have nothing to do with the teachings of Islam.This is the result I've made after critical thinking and rational aspects.
How is it possible to betray someone I don't know exists? And how does the fact that I get ETERNAL punishment for this betrayal in any way take away from my claim that your god is evidently spiteful and petty? I guess forgiveness isn't something he's into.
So your critical thinking is, "Hell is too monstrous a doctrine to believe in as the mainstream puts it, so I'm going to put my own spin on it, and that's goign to be my doctrine." Congratulations, you've done what just about everyone does and have exercised the most useless philosophical idea ever, that is taking something that's unproven, baselessly speculating off of it, and molding it to your own personal notions of what seems to be 'fair', while claiming that this is in any way reflective of reality.
What you've done is about as meaningful as someone calculating how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. Gratz.
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BigLundi wrote...
JokerFight wrote...
Umm,hey,I chose to go to Hell.Not my kids will go there.
At least,we don't mock people's perspectives.
But I understand this.I believe in the concept of betrayal.
God made humans.For Humans who don't believes he exist,is a betrayal toward Him.
For He have made us to live.He deserved to be honoured what he have done.Therefore, to be believed.
Note:This concept have nothing to do with the teachings of Islam.This is the result I've made after critical thinking and rational aspects.
How is it possible to betray someone I don't know exists? And how does the fact that I get ETERNAL punishment for this betrayal in any way take away from my claim that your god is evidently spiteful and petty? I guess forgiveness isn't something he's into.
So your critical thinking is, "Hell is too monstrous a doctrine to believe in as the mainstream puts it, so I'm going to put my own spin on it, and that's goign to be my doctrine." Congratulations, you've done what just about everyone does and have exercised the most useless philosophical idea ever, that is taking something that's unproven, baselessly speculating off of it, and molding it to your own personal notions of what seems to be 'fair', while claiming that this is in any way reflective of reality.
What you've done is about as meaningful as someone calculating how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. Gratz.
It depends on your perspective.I happened to be a believer and you don't.
I can't force you to believe.Our opinions is like black and white.
You believe in logical statements and your way of thinking is fixed.
And I fixed my way of thinking to believe Him.
But even if I chose not to have fixed way of thinking,I am still attached to the truth of His existence.Therefore,I chose to believe.
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BigLundi wrote...
Spoiler:
How is it possible to betray someone I don't know exists? And how does the fact that I get ETERNAL punishment for this betrayal in any way take away from my claim that your god is evidently spiteful and petty? I guess forgiveness isn't something he's into.
So your critical thinking is, "Hell is too monstrous a doctrine to believe in as the mainstream puts it, so I'm going to put my own spin on it, and that's goign to be my doctrine." Congratulations, you've done what just about everyone does and have exercised the most useless philosophical idea ever, that is taking something that's unproven, baselessly speculating off of it, and molding it to your own personal notions of what seems to be 'fair', while claiming that this is in any way reflective of reality.
What you've done is about as meaningful as someone calculating how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. Gratz.
You read my mind, man. I would totally +rep you, if I could, but I have to wait for another 6 hours.
JokerFight wrote...
It depends on your perspective.I happened to be a believer.There is no way you can come up with the certainty that God exists to 100% by just thinking it through. If you came up with that result, than your thinking process is majorly flawed.
You can't KNOW and BELIEVE at the same time. FAITH excludes KNOWING, as much as KNOWING excludes FAITH. If there would be proof of God's existence, people wouldn't have to choose whether to BELIEVE or NOT, because than they would KNOW that God exists.
So you either KNOW that God exists, but this means that you actually happened to find proof of that. Or you BELIEVE that God's exists, but for that you don't have any proof and if you don't have proof, that means that you could always be wrong!
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JokerFight wrote...
It depends on your perspective.I happened to be a believer and you don't.
I can't force you to believe.Our opinions is like black and white.
You believe in logical statements and your way of thinking is fixed.
And I fixed my way of thinking to believe Him.
But even if I chose not to have fixed way of thinking,I am still attached to the truth of His existence.Therefore,I chose to believe.
A truth that, funnily enough, nobody has ever been able to demonstrate in the history of ever.
I do believe in logical statements, because otherwise I'd be denying existence. Logic is a reflection of reality. If I make a logical statement that is valid and sound, then it is true, regardless of your opinion.
My way of thinking isn't 'fixed' one way or the other. I go here the evidence leads, and I open my mind up to all possibilities, and weigh them equally.
You on the other hand have decided to believe that god is real, and have molded all your beliefs about him, and his characteristics, and how he rules the universe, to match what you think is most fair.
You're darned right our opinions are like black and white.
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I am an Atheist and I personally believe that god is something humans made up to secure their feelings.
See, in a state of war and confusion, humans needs to find a support.
Therefore, figures similar as god appears.
Thats my take on how god is created.
See, in a state of war and confusion, humans needs to find a support.
Therefore, figures similar as god appears.
Thats my take on how god is created.
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BigLundi wrote...
JokerFight wrote...
It depends on your perspective.I happened to be a believer and you don't.
I can't force you to believe.Our opinions is like black and white.
You believe in logical statements and your way of thinking is fixed.
And I fixed my way of thinking to believe Him.
But even if I chose not to have fixed way of thinking,I am still attached to the truth of His existence.Therefore,I chose to believe.
A truth that, funnily enough, nobody has ever been able to demonstrate in the history of ever.
I do believe in logical statements, because otherwise I'd be denying existence. Logic is a reflection of reality. If I make a logical statement that is valid and sound, then it is true, regardless of your opinion.
My way of thinking isn't 'fixed' one way or the other. I go here the evidence leads, and I open my mind up to all possibilities, and weigh them equally.
You on the other hand have decided to believe that god is real, and have molded all your beliefs about him, and his characteristics, and how he rules the universe, to match what you think is most fair.
You're darned right our opinions are like black and white.
What if suddenly fire becomes cold? I mean logically,it is hot.But suddenly,in your situation,it is cold.Logic,in my opinion,is what people have believed and have been approved by all people.
So,if fire suddenly becomes cold,this matter is alien to us.Therefore,we examine, experiment the thing.But the most important thing is we become scared.What we have believed have contradicted its own fact.
But in my 'fixed' way of thinking,I believe that God in control of everything.
Therefore,if suddenly He changed the characteristics of fire,I wouldn't be so surprised.Logically,this is absurd.But if you have faith,it's just something normal God would do.
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JokerFight wrote...
This is the result I've made after critical thinking.JokerFight wrote...
I believe all thinkers are inept.Q.E.D.
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littleRED wrote...
JokerFight wrote...
This is the result I've made after critical thinking.JokerFight wrote...
I believe all thinkers are inept.Q.E.D.
Are you with BigLundi?Have any relationship?
Okay,here's my answer.I believe all thinkers are inept,including me.Even if humans progress and have critical thinking,they still have weaknesses.Therefore,to me ,having weaknesses is inept.Understand?
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JokerFight wrote...
littleRED wrote...
JokerFight wrote...
This is the result I've made after critical thinking.JokerFight wrote...
I believe all thinkers are inept.Q.E.D.
Are you with BigLundi?Have any relationship?
Okay,here's my answer.I believe all thinkers are inept,including me.Even if humans progress and have critical thinking,they still have weaknesses.Therefore,to me ,having weaknesses is inept.Understand?
No, because that's inconsistent.
Also, yes, we do have a relationship. We are lovers.
More seriously though, I have one big point: "Having weaknesses is inept" Yet, in your view, all things are weaknesses, even critical thinking. Meaning that your critical thinking is inept, therefore inconsequential, so you have no reason to tout that you've 'critically thought' at all, because it's all the result of inept thinking.
You literally don't understand how much you contradict yourself, over and over and over again.
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JokerFight wrote...
littleRED wrote...
JokerFight wrote...
This is the result I've made after critical thinking.JokerFight wrote...
I believe all thinkers are inept.Q.E.D.
Are you with BigLundi?Have any relationship?
No, I just happen to agree with him, because his argumentation is valid. And you wouldn't have asked this in the first place, if you would at least try to think rationally.
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BigLundi wrote...
JokerFight wrote...
littleRED wrote...
JokerFight wrote...
This is the result I've made after critical thinking.JokerFight wrote...
I believe all thinkers are inept.Q.E.D.
Are you with BigLundi?Have any relationship?
Okay,here's my answer.I believe all thinkers are inept,including me.Even if humans progress and have critical thinking,they still have weaknesses.Therefore,to me ,having weaknesses is inept.Understand?
No, because that's inconsistent.
Also, yes, we do have a relationship. We are lovers.
More seriously though, I have one big point: "Having weaknesses is inept" Yet, in your view, all things are weaknesses, even critical thinking. Meaning that your critical thinking is inept, therefore inconsequential, so you have no reason to tout that you've 'critically thought' at all, because it's all the result of inept thinking.
You literally don't understand how much you contradict yourself, over and over and over again.
(Laughs)Howh...Good grief.You guys are lovers.I'm shocked,Lundi.
To see her to state a statement like you.And she said she have a husband and now...a lover.Well,that's bigamous.
Okay,straight to the point.You're right.I'm just contradicting myself.
However,it depends on your perspective.For those people who don't progress is an inept,I would feel certainly better if I think myself as an adept.
It's just progress.You guys really pawned me today.
Lundi,you have a guardian with you.And I am debating with two brains.
I guess that made me an adept.I failed,in this topic.But I failed in honour.
Note:Man,I'm debating with two people.I like that.
Hope to see this again.
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JokerFight wrote...
(Laughs)Howh...Good grief.You guys are lovers.I'm shocked,Lundi.To see her to state a statement like you.And she said she have a husband and now...a lover.Well,that's bigamous.
GEEZUS H. TAPDANCING CHRIST ON A CRUTCH!
So just because I agree with someone that makes this person my lover? So if I agree with Einstein or Darwin, that means I fucked them? Seriously? Wooooooooooow ... I fucked famous dead people ... I wonder if Mrs. Aristotle knew about me being his lover. Or Mrs. Newton ... or Mrs. Galileo ...
... GEEZ, I'm a wise people necrophiliac slut !!!
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littleRED wrote...
JokerFight wrote...
(Laughs)Howh...Good grief.You guys are lovers.I'm shocked,Lundi.To see her to state a statement like you.And she said she have a husband and now...a lover.Well,that's bigamous.
GEEZUS H. TAPDANCING CHRIST ON A CRUTCH!
So just because I agree with someone that makes this person my lover? So if I agree with Einstein or Darwin, that means I fucked them? Seriously? Wooooooooooow ... I fucked famous dead people ... I wonder if Mrs. Aristotle knew about me being his lover. Or Mrs. Newton ... or Mrs. Galileo ...
... GEEZ, I'm a wise people necrophiliac slut !!!
Sorry, that's actually my bad. I said that jokingly...and he just kinda ran with it. I'm not sure if Joker understands what sarcasm is.
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littleRED wrote...
JokerFight wrote...
(Laughs)Howh...Good grief.You guys are lovers.I'm shocked,Lundi.To see her to state a statement like you.And she said she have a husband and now...a lover.Well,that's bigamous.
GEEZUS H. TAPDANCING CHRIST ON A CRUTCH!
So just because I agree with someone that makes this person my lover? So if I agree with Einstein or Darwin, that means I fucked them? Seriously? Wooooooooooow ... I fucked famous dead people ... I wonder if Mrs. Aristotle knew about me being his lover. Or Mrs. Newton ... or Mrs. Galileo ...
... GEEZ, I'm a wise people necrophiliac slut !!!
Okay.Umm,my deep apology.I don't see that you're saying no,actually.I am busy with BigLundi,actually.So,I don't see your post.My deepest apology.Very sorry.Anyway,send my regards to your family.Again,sorry.Blame Lundi for that.
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JokerFight wrote...
Okay.Umm,my deep apology.I don't see that you're saying no,actually.I am busy with BigLundi,actually.So,I don't see your post.My deepest apology.Very sorry.Anyway,send my regards to your family.Again,sorry.Blame Lundi for that.Dude, totally. Let's just say, I know why they call him BIG Lundi ................
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littleRED wrote...
JokerFight wrote...
Okay.Umm,my deep apology.I don't see that you're saying no,actually.I am busy with BigLundi,actually.So,I don't see your post.My deepest apology.Very sorry.Anyway,send my regards to your family.Again,sorry.Blame Lundi for that.Dude, totally. Let's just say, I know why they call him BIG Lundi ................
It's French,right?Lundi means Monday/Moon.Big Monday?
I just know that he likes to put sarcasm in his words.I mean... yeah sarcasm.And likes to criticize.