Why would God make such an Atrocious Universe???

If we are to believe evolution (which we should), then humans are a product of nature and time. They weren't "created" per se. And I don't know why people on the Internet think humans are apparently the most atrocious things in the universe. Do you know how big the universe is? For all you know there could be some barbarian rape beasts on a planet in the Pinwheel Galaxy. It's not like hating your own species makes you cool or something.

Regardless of whichever God you believe in (Yahweh, Buddha, Thor, Horus etc.), or the lack of faith in any deities, it's a bit of a stretch to label the universe as atrocious.

We probably won't know why tsunamis and droughts are made to occur; but we know how. We probably won't understand why there are individuals who commit murder, larceny and other forms of crime; but we can prevent.
We probably won't be able to enjoy a world free of corruption, greed and gross inequality; but we can lessen their extent.
You know, I don't think we mere humans can fully fathom the thoughts of a supposedly-omnipotent being. But we can guess.

So yes, in a sense you're right, the universe is atrocious. But we can do something to make it less so, yeah?

Our little planet is not universe.
There is possibility of other races existing on other planets if so there is also chance they got good things going.

Humans are not as evil as they seem, its just few bad apples spoil bunch.
Culture and certain "growing" conditions make us into what we are. So if you grow in lets say bad part of town you got different chance of becoming drug seller than say someone who was grown in small village somewhere.
I think given good growth conditions any human can become good, and planet got plenty of "good" people.

However if you consider possibility of God's existence and then ask why would someone whit such infinite power make all this in the way it is today, and would not even participate in events unfolding, then that would just mean that everything that's happening is happening according to plan.
Maby religions got it wrong, and we are all here today just to make perfect monsters, and after some evens we would be unleashed on some other poor shmuks in some far away galaxy... Just wishful thinking i guess ;D

Other than 623, not many people seem to be thinking beyond simply god does/doesn't exist.

I'll work backwards.

Universe:
"Star Formation is completely inefficient" how so?
Yes the universe is really not supportive to our existence. But why would it be? Why would it need to be suitable for humans?

Earth:
Without changing the laws of the universe, I don't know how you could get rid of those natural phenomena. As well, without direct intervention how would you prevent human influences. Exactly to what extent can, the god you suggest, govern.

Humans:
Exactly how much do humans need to survive? Do any of this prevent us from living our lives? Humans have gotten as far as they have with everything they have so far.

The argument could be reversed to, "We have exactly what we need in order to simply live" for all your examples. Your argument really stands under the assumption that, "If god existed he would make us better". Which is not a given.

Now I am going to go out of the box.
-What happened to the idea that multiple gods governed the creation/control of separate events/existences displayed in Greek mythology. Who's to say 1 god created everything, maybe different gods could have created different aspects individually (without cooperation with one another).

-Watch an anime that goes by the name of "Heroic Age". In it their exist an alien race called the "Golden tribe" with the abilities to create. After creating 4 other races they leave the universe for something else (undisclosed in the anime). What's to say that maybe it wasn't so much a "god" but a more advance race of alien species.

-Who's to say humans, themselves, are the direct byproduct of omnipresence interference. Maybe "god" created the basics of the big bang, and from their, allowed everything to develop how they have. Humans are simply inconsequential event on the cosmic timeline. Uninfluenced by a "god" at any point, maybe even unbeknownst to.

-The belief in human society seems to stand that god has complete and utter control of everything, yet I find this often erratically conceptualized. For a god who is both all knowing and all powerful to purposely create flaws, foresee those flaws, and become enraged when they become active events (Christianity). At the very least, I would think the assumption that, not god himself, but that he is "all knowing and all powerful" in itself is even more of a stretched assumption.

They're more examples I could fathom, but I can't seem to think very constructively at this time. I'll end it with this for now. Neither the assumption for or against have anymore merit than the predecessor. If god(s) exist, what exactly would he/she(they) be? Considering how different human mind is from animals.
http://www.wimp.com/disturbingthought/
Who's to say how much of a difference a "god" would pertain to? When an ape can't identify with how we think, how could we assume we could know how a god would think without knowing anything about?

The debate that one side is "more" right than the other is a futile argument creating unnecessary conflict. I can understand the reasons both sides wage in it, but shoving beliefs in each other faces ultimately only causes unnecessary arguments which is only counterproductive.

I don't think anyone gives a damn, but for the sake of full disclosure, I am agnostic, and yes I am aware that means that I am technically an atheist.

While there is evidence that points towards many aspects of certain religions being wrong, there is no evidence that clearly defines whether or not a supernatural force that guides us through the multiverse exists or not. The argument can always be made that we don't fully understand how the multiverse operates, and that while big bangs really do happen, we don't understand much past that, we have no idea why any form of matter and energy exists at all. Until we understand that, there will always be people who argue that God must have created existence as we know it, and bringing up this topic, trying to argue with them, is futile, just as them trying to argue their beliefs with you would be futile.

Religious topics only incite controversy and flame wars, personally I don't care what beliefs you have, bashing the beliefs of others isn't the way to go about changing them and if that's all you're doing this isn't a serious discussion, just petty flaming over personal beliefs.

I think even if we understood how everything was made, how big bang started and knew everything about universe there would still be people who would believe in god.
Purpose of God and religion is different from that of explaining nature and universe.
God and religion give hope to people that have no hope left.

One of these stupid questions, again. Ugh.

Okay, listen up. In the Old Testement, Yahweh was always ticked off at humans, so he had little to no pity on them. Hence the Great Flood, Job, Moses being denied entrance into the Promised Land, etc.

Basically, he was sick and tired of the shenanigans humans created and the fact that he ALWAYS HAD TO HOLD MAN'S HAND EVERY SECOND OF THE DAY.

In the New Testament, Yahweh appears only briefly, due to the fact that his son, Yeshua ("Jesus") was the main protagonist. When he does appear, he seems extremely mellow. After Yeshua was crucified, it is presumed that Yahweh no longer blames humans for their constant derping, due to the fact that they don't know any better.

In addition, the original Hebrew text for the Old Testament merely states that "at a high point in time, Yahweh filled the (already existing) Earth with life, and created the skies." It later goes on to state that the human "was formed in the likeness of both the Earth and of Yahweh."

Thus Yahweh didn't create the universe, nor Earth for that matter. He merely sent down the oxygen meteors that crashed into the ocean billions of years ago, created Earth's atmosphere, and caused RNA to build up and form microscopic life. After that, he helped evolution take its course (by use of "random" temperature changes) and helped the Homo genus develop into the current civilised Homo sapiens sapiens.

Is that a good enough answer for you? I suggest that (in the future) you pick your targets for scorn more carefully.

http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Genesis+1
http://www.readbookonline.net/read/933/10941/
http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=KjvGene.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=1&division=div1

Do I need to keep linking more? Genesis Chapter 1 Verse 1. In the beginning, god created the heavens and the earth.

It's the first line of the bible! How can you say that god didn't create the earth and the unverse when it is the very first line of the bible. I'm an athiest and even I know the first line of the bible.

If you really want to get technical here, the old testiment was written in a specific regional hebrew dialect while the new testiment was written in a common greek.


Moreso, as an physics university major, I want to address the multi-verse theory. Remember this is strictly a theory with mathmatical calculations to explain that theory, it does not however make it correct, we just don't have many better options. In a multi-verse theory, as with any state of quantum physics there is no measurable amount of certainty, only factors of probability. All states of quantum are in a constant state of flux and this gives the element of "randomness". How does this relate to the multi-verse, in the multi-verse anything can, has and will happen. So there is definitavely a universe out there that was created by a god, and one created by 20 gods, or 1000 gods, and there is also a universe out there that is created by no gods.

What interests most about the multi-verse is how it related to christmas and not the jesus christmas, the santa claus christmas. To have the debate, does santa exist, well in an infinite number of universes, there is guarenteed to be 1 universe that not only has a santa clause, but a santa clause that has build a device that allows him to travel between the multi-verse to other universes. So if you want to believe in the complete multi-verse theory as sciece tells us, then the easter bunny is real, the tooth fairy is real, god is real, santa clause is real, optimus prime is real, and all of them are having a death match on Kasbiar in the Zeltonis Universe. (that's universe 9847638494202 for anyone counting)

Wow. You're just like that villain from Devil Survivor. The only difference is that you are seriously messed up.

So magic and other things, that can defy this universes logic, is possible? (That hurts my head imagining... all the possibilities.)

Does the multi-verse really include fictional ideas as well, or is it that just so many possible universes exist one has too exist? If that's true... Does that mean I can meet a Yuuko that doesn't... (spoiler)? So I would assume millions upon billions of universe exist, and can be traveled too, all having Yuuko, but with slight differences till the one exactly like the fictional character... Now I'm stuck imagining this world/universe (my life) could be a fictional story in another universe... I'M SORRY READERS THAT I AM SUCH A BORING MAIN CHARACTER AND I'M SORRY UNIVERSE IF I GET US CANCELLED!!! (So much pressure... Multiverse is scary!)

Tell that to a Christian( not catholic ), he'll tell you god only made the universe then let it evolve on it's own.
Tell him that it contradicts with the whole "the earth was made in six days", he'll tell you some parts of the bible are biased.
Tell him that it doesn't make sense that he would favor us humans when we are so puny, he'll tell you that it's because we evolved enough to receive his teachings.
Tell him that our being able to imagine things does not entitle us to anything, and that anyway there is probably other beings able to understand these things and we just don't know about it, he'll tell you that we can't know.
Tell him that we can't know if god really exists either, he'll tell you that he felt the presence of god in his life.
Ask him exactly when, he'll tell you that it's too long to explain or that you can't understand, that you just know when it happens.

Conclusion ? Religious people will not budge from their position because god is an obvious truth to them. Obvious because of what, there's no real telling and I'm not interested enough to press on. If people want to believe in these things, may that make them happy. I've stopped considering it an important thing to decide if somebody is a good person or not.

Everything you asked is possible, all outcomes fictional and non-fictional do exist within the multi-verse theory. There's a multi-verse out there where I am the king of this planet but the planet is actually made out of cheese.

The thing that people can argue about this theory is that I am being rediculous about my statments and will often say things like "lets be realistic about this". But what defines realistic, what is crazy to one person might be real to another. Think about life 100 years ago, or even 50 years ago. Would they have ever imagined that we'd have cell phones more capable than all technology they had combined?

I remember reading a quote about the growth of computers in a magazine from 1954 I think. And in that article the author was telling us how nobody will ever own a computer because of the size they are and how they will never be smaller than entire room. He continues to say how computers would never be able to calculate much more than simple numbers for algebra. That was the general idea that people had back then, and they thought computers were rediculous.

What I want more than anything else is to be in the universe that contains fairy tail. I want to join that guild so badly.

Edit: I have to add this in because it tickles my fancy to so much. I am probably one of very few who have studied science to believe that things like magic are possible in our every day life right here and now. All magic has a root in logic, there is a reason why it happens as it does. I base my theory on this on how much we know about the human brain, many still think that we use 10% of our brain which is incorrect so far as spacial use. We use all of our brain, but the amount of concious control to recall information or control our bodies is estimated to be 10%. Take for example your muscles, there are safe guards in the human body that prevent you from using 100% of your strength because it damages the body immensely. But there are some instances where we see people who couldn't normally life something be able to lift cars for instance in times of emergency. There are people who can light up light bulbs with just a touch because their bodies hold incredible amounts of electricity. So why would it not be possible to create fire with your mind, or levitate objects. It may seem far fetched but let's me realistic, we don't even know where gravity comes from.

I don't read the Old Testament in English. I read it in Hebrew. And if you had read through my wall of text, you would have known what it says in the Hebrew. Furthermore, Ancient Hebrew was a very literal language, thus the composition of such things as "beginning" would have been impossible. It merely says "at the peak" or "at a high point in time" in the Hebrew.



And you are one of the sane human beings that realise that (to theists) any unanswered questions regarding Yahweh are left up to what would be literally translated as "support" if reading from the Hebrew, but is commonly called "faith" in the English texts.

It doesn't matter how you translate it, arguing samantics is pointless. Whether it is "at the peak" or "at the high point in time", the text still says "God created the heavens and the earth". Even if I take your word as being true it still comes out as "at the high peak, god created the heavens and the earth"

Even in yiddish: Genesis made †‹†‹alhim the sky and heart. It still says that something was created relating to sky and earth.

Stories like those are always funny and make me laugh when I still hear people say things along those lines. "Computers will never be able to think like humans", "They'll never be able to build themselves", "or fix/repair themselves", "Never be self aware", "Never have consciousness", "Feel", ect..



There is a saying I really like, "Advance enough science is indistinguishable from magic" (or something like that). That what is normal for us is magic to the past. What is magic to us now may be science in the future.

In terms of brain and cognitive functions, I have a lot of missing info on, I need to do some independent studying of. I am somewhat familiar with Memory, and familiar with how much we know about consciousness. I'd like to say I am familiar with addiction and a bit about neurotransmitters.

To keep my open minded but skeptical stance, I neither believe or denounce without empirical evidence of. So my stance towards psychics is "in waiting" stage. Though if personal desires count, I would love to meet a psychics. They have always been an interesting concept to me. A evolution or mutation into something more advance than the current human standard.

The word used that is translated as "beginning" is translated later as "fattened", and later still as "filled." I propose he merely assisted with evolution.

My goodness. The post is such a mess of random cluttered information.

The universe doesn't need humans.
Even the earth doesn't need us. The earth can sustain intself without us.

Actually there is going to be an end to the universe soon enough.
In summary.
The Universe is expanding at an ever increasing rate going against the laws of gravity.The force at work is dark matter and eventually our universe is going to be so spread out that no new stars or planets will be born.

As for religion well I think its the greatest evil ever invented as it allows people to not take responsibility for anything.They can just go oh its God's will or oh I am killing this person cause God wants me too.

The Universe has a couple hundred billion years left.



Dark Energy, not Dark Matter, Dark Matter is something entirely different.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_will_the_Universe_end
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_fate_of_the_universe
http://science.howstuffworks.com/dictionary/astronomy-terms/big-crunch.htm

There are multiple theories that give the remaining amount of time to be anywhere from 10 billion to a couple hundred billion. There is a specific article I read (I think) in "How stuff works" that I've been trying to find to no avail. It was a good article that covered these theories of "the end of time". I believe the most popular and accepted is the "Big Crunch". (I should review these myself.)

Pretty sure its dark matter.