[Winter Contest Entry 2015] Like Holding White Elephants
2
Sound of Destiny
Inbetweener
“Did you see her?”
“The girl? Do you really think that what they’re saying is true?”
“What other explanation is there?”
“To think Sylvester would do something like that.”
“And keep it a secret from all of us!”
“You never really know someone, even when they’re family.”
Why am I here?
I never wanted to come back to this old, beat-up house but it was only a matter of time before that bastard dragged me back into his business.
Last night, I got a call from my older sister, informing me that my father had passed away. I haven’t talked to that old crock in eighteen years, since the time we had the argument, but here I am, back just to dump his ass into a hole in the ground. Life sure has an obnoxious sense of humor.
And of course, the whole extended family had to come and make a scene out of it. That old man always went out of his way to avoid all of them so why make such a big deal out of it.
I guess it’s just an excuse for all the old fogies to gossip, while the younger guys brag about how great their lives are. What a joke.
I need some fresh air.
I sift through the crowd of faces whose names I can’t even recall and make a beeline for the backyard.
Thank God I’m out of there. Any longer and I probably would have done something that I’d regret.
I take a seat on the porch and breath in the cold, rustic air of this late autumn afternoon. This place hasn’t changed one bit; these plants are still everywhere. That old fart always did have a thing for this stuff. Leave it to him to worry more about his garden than his actual kids. What a joke.
Out in the distance, I see a small girl huddled behind a shrub but before I can call out to her, she scampers off with surprising speed.
What just happened?
“So this is where you were.”
Oh, this isn’t good. I take a quick glance behind me and, as I feared, my older sister was standing there and she didn’t look particularly pleased to see me.
“Hey sis … sure is cold today.”
“I don’t hear a word from you in years and that’s all you have to say?”
“What! Were you expecting me to wrap you in my arms with tears streaming down my face?”
“Jesus Rowan, you know that’s not what I meant! Is it too much to ask that my little brother at least stay in touch?”
“Oh, well I’m sorry! Let me try that again. Sister dear, it’s been so long! I missed you so much! We really must catch-up.”
“Come on! You’re 34 years old. How about you act your age for once. Do you really think that the first thing I want to do after not seeing you for so long is argue?”
“Heather, I’m sorry. I’ve just been real busy with my own stuff. That’s why I haven’t called.”
“Too busy to tell me how you’re doing? A little update would have been enough. Just so I know that you’re doing okay.”
“I’ll try a little harder from now on alright. Now enough about that; how are you holding up?”
“Still a little shaken up. I knew this was coming but never expected it to be this soon. It’s just so sudden you know? What about you?”
“Aside from having to hang around this dump, I’m just peachy. It’s not like what happens to that bastard means anything to me.
“I know that you two never got along but would it kill you to show some respect? The man’s still your father.”
“Hell if I care! That geezer never did anything good for me anyway. And just for the record, I got this far in life without needing help from any of you so don’t even start with all that family crap.”
“Seriously, why are you being like this? You know we’re all just worried about you?”
“Bullshit! Ever since I ran away from home, I’ve been dead to them. This, so called, family of yours, they don’t want anything to do with me and let me tell you, the feeling is mutual.”
“I’m not asking you for much. I just want you to interact with them, even just a little bit. Please, for me?”
“Whatever will get you to quit nagging me.”
“Thank you. You don’t know how much that means to me.”
“Oh, drop the theatrics. I’m not promising you anything.”
“Whatever you say.”
“Oh, before I forget to ask, I saw a little girl out here a second ago. Flaxen hair, round face, looked pretty young. Whose kid is that?”
As soon as Heather hears this, she freezes in place.
“What’s wrong? Don’t tell me she’s yours.”
“Shut up! If I had a kid, believe me, you would be the first to know. But about the girl, it’s … complicated. Promise me you won’t freak out.”
“Quit dilly-dallying. It can’t be that big of a deal.”
“Nothing has been confirmed but people are saying that she’s …”
“Spit it out already!”
“That she’s dad’s kid! Happy now?”
“What! At his age! But that’s … With who?”
“No idea. We just found out that the girl existed today. Honestly, this whole thing’s a huge mess.”
“Well whenever dad’s involved, disaster is sure to follow.”
“Now’s really not time for jokes like that.”
“But wait a second. That makes her … our little sister, right?”
“Now that you mention it, you always did want a little sister.”
“But if this is that bastard’s idea of a Christmas gift, then he couldn’t have picked a more troublesome one.”
“So why the sudden interest? I thought you hated kids.”
“Don’t read too much into it. I couldn’t care less about that brat. I was just curious.”
Tired of standing out in the cold, the two of us retreat into the comfort of the cozy inside but instead of joining the others with Heather, I hide out in an empty hallway by the living room and take a seat on the floor. I’d do anything to get away from … them. Anywhere is fine as long as I get to be alone. That’s right. All alone — sitting on the floor in some dirty hallway. I must look so cool right now.
Well, it wouldn't be right to say that I’m all alone considering the pair of beady eyes staring right at me.
“Hey kid. Get over here and don’t even think about running away this time.”
The girl comes out of her hiding spot behind the wall and walks up to me, slowly, with her eyes glued to the floor. Now that I see her up close, she does look an awful lot like him.
“You have a name?”
No response.
“What’s wrong? You do know how to talk right?”
“I … I do,” she says under her breath.
“Then tell me your name.”
“Lily,” she whispers even softer.
Well she’s definitely his kid.
“Uncle, did I do something wrong?”
“Did you just call me †˜uncle’? Don’t do that. It makes me feel older than I already am. Besides, by the looks of things, we’re … you know what, never mind, uncle is fine.”
“Tell me kid — how old are you?”
She counts the years with her hands and holds out six stubby, little fingers towards me. How did that bastard keep this girl a secret for so long?
“Sorry but … who are you?”
“Me? I’m nobody. You don’t need to worry about it, we won’t be seeing each other again.”
“Okay."
“Hey. Tell me a little something about that dad of yours. What was he like?”
“Papa? He was … really nice,” she says with a small smile.
“Really? Well I guess you weren’t given enough time to start hating him. That’s probably for the best though. After all, you wouldn’t want to end up like me.”
She stays silent, clearly not knowing how to respond.
“What are you doing here anyway? Shouldn’t you be playing with all the other brats?”
“Nobody was … paying any attention to me. What about you Uncle? Why aren’t you with all the other grown-ups?”
“Please, I’m sure no one wants to hear me air my grievances.”
“Well, it looks like we’re not all that different kid. You know there’s a word to describe people like us.”
“White elephant?”
“I was going to say black sheep but I guess that works too. Say, where did you hear that?”
“I heard some of the grown-ups calling me that.”
Leave it to those crummy adults to talk that way about a little girl. It’s not like she chose to be born.
“Uncle — can I ask you a question?”
“Shoot.”
“Papa … he’s not waking up, is he?”
Did no one explain to her what’s going on? Well, I really shouldn’t be expecting someone her age to be able to grasp something like death.
“I’m afraid not.”
“So what’s going to happen to me uncle? Where will I go?”
Not taking responsibility, leaving his kids to fend for themselves, those sure sound familiar. That bastard hasn’t changed at all. Look at the mess you’ve caused dad. What a joke.
Poor kid. He may have been a crappy father but he was still all she had. She must be real beat up over it.
“I know this isn’t the best time to be doing this but we do need to discuss what to do about the child.”
We overhear the adults talking from all the way in the living room and by the sound of things this isn’t some casual conversation.
“Is anyone willing to take the girl in?”
“Don’t look at me. Two kids is already more than I can handle.”
“Sorry, but I’ve got too much on my plate already.”
“I can’t do it either. My wife and I won’t be able to watch over her.”
Damn, this is pissing me off.
“It would probably be for the best that we search for an adoption house.”
“Why not just give her up to social services?”
“We can’t just do that!”
“Then what do you suggest we do?”
“Come now everyone. Let’s keep things civil.”
I look back at the kid and see her hurriedly wiping her eyes with the sleeve of her shirt but the tears won’t stop coming.
“Oh Sylvester, did you really have to drop this white elephant on our doorstep?”
Okay, I’ve had enough of this.
“Wait here.”
I get up and storm into the living room.
“Listen up! Don’t worry about the kid anymore. I’ll handle it.”
“Rowan, are you saying what I think you’re saying?”
“But you don’t even have a wife. Who’ll take care of her when you’re at work?”
“Do you even know a thing about raising children?”
“That’s right son. Don’t you think you’re being too hasty here? Sit down and we can talk about this.”
“First of all, don’t call me †˜son’. Second, if anyone here is willing to take that girl in, I ask that you kindly speak up.”
They all stare at me, speechless. What a joke.
“Well if none of you are going to do something about her, then that leaves me with no choice.”
“I understand that you all have your own problems to deal with but a young girl has just lost her father so I don’t think now’s the time to be worrying about ourselves.”
With that, I turn around and walk back to the hallway.
“Lily!”
She peeks out from the corner and looks up at me with those puffy, red eyes.
“Go pack your things. You’re coming to live with me.”
At first she seemed dumbfounded at what I was saying but eventually all that was washed away, leaving only a small smile and a single word.
“Okay.”
“The girl? Do you really think that what they’re saying is true?”
“What other explanation is there?”
“To think Sylvester would do something like that.”
“And keep it a secret from all of us!”
“You never really know someone, even when they’re family.”
Why am I here?
I never wanted to come back to this old, beat-up house but it was only a matter of time before that bastard dragged me back into his business.
Last night, I got a call from my older sister, informing me that my father had passed away. I haven’t talked to that old crock in eighteen years, since the time we had the argument, but here I am, back just to dump his ass into a hole in the ground. Life sure has an obnoxious sense of humor.
And of course, the whole extended family had to come and make a scene out of it. That old man always went out of his way to avoid all of them so why make such a big deal out of it.
I guess it’s just an excuse for all the old fogies to gossip, while the younger guys brag about how great their lives are. What a joke.
I need some fresh air.
I sift through the crowd of faces whose names I can’t even recall and make a beeline for the backyard.
Thank God I’m out of there. Any longer and I probably would have done something that I’d regret.
I take a seat on the porch and breath in the cold, rustic air of this late autumn afternoon. This place hasn’t changed one bit; these plants are still everywhere. That old fart always did have a thing for this stuff. Leave it to him to worry more about his garden than his actual kids. What a joke.
Out in the distance, I see a small girl huddled behind a shrub but before I can call out to her, she scampers off with surprising speed.
What just happened?
“So this is where you were.”
Oh, this isn’t good. I take a quick glance behind me and, as I feared, my older sister was standing there and she didn’t look particularly pleased to see me.
“Hey sis … sure is cold today.”
“I don’t hear a word from you in years and that’s all you have to say?”
“What! Were you expecting me to wrap you in my arms with tears streaming down my face?”
“Jesus Rowan, you know that’s not what I meant! Is it too much to ask that my little brother at least stay in touch?”
“Oh, well I’m sorry! Let me try that again. Sister dear, it’s been so long! I missed you so much! We really must catch-up.”
“Come on! You’re 34 years old. How about you act your age for once. Do you really think that the first thing I want to do after not seeing you for so long is argue?”
“Heather, I’m sorry. I’ve just been real busy with my own stuff. That’s why I haven’t called.”
“Too busy to tell me how you’re doing? A little update would have been enough. Just so I know that you’re doing okay.”
“I’ll try a little harder from now on alright. Now enough about that; how are you holding up?”
“Still a little shaken up. I knew this was coming but never expected it to be this soon. It’s just so sudden you know? What about you?”
“Aside from having to hang around this dump, I’m just peachy. It’s not like what happens to that bastard means anything to me.
“I know that you two never got along but would it kill you to show some respect? The man’s still your father.”
“Hell if I care! That geezer never did anything good for me anyway. And just for the record, I got this far in life without needing help from any of you so don’t even start with all that family crap.”
“Seriously, why are you being like this? You know we’re all just worried about you?”
“Bullshit! Ever since I ran away from home, I’ve been dead to them. This, so called, family of yours, they don’t want anything to do with me and let me tell you, the feeling is mutual.”
“I’m not asking you for much. I just want you to interact with them, even just a little bit. Please, for me?”
“Whatever will get you to quit nagging me.”
“Thank you. You don’t know how much that means to me.”
“Oh, drop the theatrics. I’m not promising you anything.”
“Whatever you say.”
“Oh, before I forget to ask, I saw a little girl out here a second ago. Flaxen hair, round face, looked pretty young. Whose kid is that?”
As soon as Heather hears this, she freezes in place.
“What’s wrong? Don’t tell me she’s yours.”
“Shut up! If I had a kid, believe me, you would be the first to know. But about the girl, it’s … complicated. Promise me you won’t freak out.”
“Quit dilly-dallying. It can’t be that big of a deal.”
“Nothing has been confirmed but people are saying that she’s …”
“Spit it out already!”
“That she’s dad’s kid! Happy now?”
“What! At his age! But that’s … With who?”
“No idea. We just found out that the girl existed today. Honestly, this whole thing’s a huge mess.”
“Well whenever dad’s involved, disaster is sure to follow.”
“Now’s really not time for jokes like that.”
“But wait a second. That makes her … our little sister, right?”
“Now that you mention it, you always did want a little sister.”
“But if this is that bastard’s idea of a Christmas gift, then he couldn’t have picked a more troublesome one.”
“So why the sudden interest? I thought you hated kids.”
“Don’t read too much into it. I couldn’t care less about that brat. I was just curious.”
Tired of standing out in the cold, the two of us retreat into the comfort of the cozy inside but instead of joining the others with Heather, I hide out in an empty hallway by the living room and take a seat on the floor. I’d do anything to get away from … them. Anywhere is fine as long as I get to be alone. That’s right. All alone — sitting on the floor in some dirty hallway. I must look so cool right now.
Well, it wouldn't be right to say that I’m all alone considering the pair of beady eyes staring right at me.
“Hey kid. Get over here and don’t even think about running away this time.”
The girl comes out of her hiding spot behind the wall and walks up to me, slowly, with her eyes glued to the floor. Now that I see her up close, she does look an awful lot like him.
“You have a name?”
No response.
“What’s wrong? You do know how to talk right?”
“I … I do,” she says under her breath.
“Then tell me your name.”
“Lily,” she whispers even softer.
Well she’s definitely his kid.
“Uncle, did I do something wrong?”
“Did you just call me †˜uncle’? Don’t do that. It makes me feel older than I already am. Besides, by the looks of things, we’re … you know what, never mind, uncle is fine.”
“Tell me kid — how old are you?”
She counts the years with her hands and holds out six stubby, little fingers towards me. How did that bastard keep this girl a secret for so long?
“Sorry but … who are you?”
“Me? I’m nobody. You don’t need to worry about it, we won’t be seeing each other again.”
“Okay."
“Hey. Tell me a little something about that dad of yours. What was he like?”
“Papa? He was … really nice,” she says with a small smile.
“Really? Well I guess you weren’t given enough time to start hating him. That’s probably for the best though. After all, you wouldn’t want to end up like me.”
She stays silent, clearly not knowing how to respond.
“What are you doing here anyway? Shouldn’t you be playing with all the other brats?”
“Nobody was … paying any attention to me. What about you Uncle? Why aren’t you with all the other grown-ups?”
“Please, I’m sure no one wants to hear me air my grievances.”
“Well, it looks like we’re not all that different kid. You know there’s a word to describe people like us.”
“White elephant?”
“I was going to say black sheep but I guess that works too. Say, where did you hear that?”
“I heard some of the grown-ups calling me that.”
Leave it to those crummy adults to talk that way about a little girl. It’s not like she chose to be born.
“Uncle — can I ask you a question?”
“Shoot.”
“Papa … he’s not waking up, is he?”
Did no one explain to her what’s going on? Well, I really shouldn’t be expecting someone her age to be able to grasp something like death.
“I’m afraid not.”
“So what’s going to happen to me uncle? Where will I go?”
Not taking responsibility, leaving his kids to fend for themselves, those sure sound familiar. That bastard hasn’t changed at all. Look at the mess you’ve caused dad. What a joke.
Poor kid. He may have been a crappy father but he was still all she had. She must be real beat up over it.
“I know this isn’t the best time to be doing this but we do need to discuss what to do about the child.”
We overhear the adults talking from all the way in the living room and by the sound of things this isn’t some casual conversation.
“Is anyone willing to take the girl in?”
“Don’t look at me. Two kids is already more than I can handle.”
“Sorry, but I’ve got too much on my plate already.”
“I can’t do it either. My wife and I won’t be able to watch over her.”
Damn, this is pissing me off.
“It would probably be for the best that we search for an adoption house.”
“Why not just give her up to social services?”
“We can’t just do that!”
“Then what do you suggest we do?”
“Come now everyone. Let’s keep things civil.”
I look back at the kid and see her hurriedly wiping her eyes with the sleeve of her shirt but the tears won’t stop coming.
“Oh Sylvester, did you really have to drop this white elephant on our doorstep?”
Okay, I’ve had enough of this.
“Wait here.”
I get up and storm into the living room.
“Listen up! Don’t worry about the kid anymore. I’ll handle it.”
“Rowan, are you saying what I think you’re saying?”
“But you don’t even have a wife. Who’ll take care of her when you’re at work?”
“Do you even know a thing about raising children?”
“That’s right son. Don’t you think you’re being too hasty here? Sit down and we can talk about this.”
“First of all, don’t call me †˜son’. Second, if anyone here is willing to take that girl in, I ask that you kindly speak up.”
They all stare at me, speechless. What a joke.
“Well if none of you are going to do something about her, then that leaves me with no choice.”
“I understand that you all have your own problems to deal with but a young girl has just lost her father so I don’t think now’s the time to be worrying about ourselves.”
With that, I turn around and walk back to the hallway.
“Lily!”
She peeks out from the corner and looks up at me with those puffy, red eyes.
“Go pack your things. You’re coming to live with me.”
At first she seemed dumbfounded at what I was saying but eventually all that was washed away, leaving only a small smile and a single word.
“Okay.”
1
leonard267
FAKKU Non-Writer
Wonder how it would feel to have a sister nearly 3 decades younger than me. I am in amazement that a man one foot in the grave could still perform in bed! I have read your entry, will go into detail what I thought about it later.
1
Yanker
I read hentai for plot
Nice to see some male tsundere action for once! I am normally against massive dialogue heavy pieces, but this one worked fine for me. Good job!
1
I enjoyed this for the most part. I'd say my only real complaint is I think you laid on the narrator's hate for his father a little too thick. Also, your repetition of, "What a joke," got annoying. But really, other than that it's a solid story. Nothing surprised me, but nothing let me down either.
1
I really liked the overall plot of the story. In my opinion, it was cleanly written and despite closely reaching the word limit, the story didn't feel that long and the flow was really smooth. Just be wary of some missing punctuation marks though.
Great job on the story, and good luck on the polls and future contests you may join!
Great job on the story, and good luck on the polls and future contests you may join!
2
Sound of Destiny
Inbetweener
leonard267 wrote...
Wonder how it would feel to have a sister nearly 3 decades younger than me. I am in amazement that a man one foot in the grave could still perform in bed!I think it'd be nice since I'd actually be mature enough to not treat her like a pest. I used to find younger kids annoying when I, myself, was younger but I've softened up quite a bit since then. I'd like to think I treat them pretty well now and I'd hope that I'm a good influence. Also, I'm not surprised that you would think about the senior citizen sex. To be fair, she was conceived 6 years prior so it's not all that crazy that he'd still have it in him.
I look forward to hear the rest of what you and the other judges have to say.
PS. Sorry for not replying to your comments last contest. I got nervous to hear what people had to say and didn't really know how to reply to your criticism. Sorry, if it seemed like I was blowing you off.
Yanker wrote...
Nice to see some male tsundere action for once! I am normally against massive dialogue heavy pieces, but this one worked fine for me. Good job!Yes! We definitely need more male tsunderes. I like to think that dialogue and naturalistic prose are my strong suits so it makes me happy to hear that. Thank you for your comments.
d(^_^)(^_^)d wrote...
I'd say my only real complaint is I think you laid on the narrator's hate for his father a little too thick. Also, your repetition of, "What a joke," got annoying. But really, other than that it's a solid story. Nothing surprised me, but nothing let me down either.You think so? What makes you say that? I'm curious.
There was a lot more about the father in the earlier drafts but I quickly realized that I didn't have enough words to do what I wanted so I scrapped it to focus more on him and the girl. I was worried that maybe his bad relationship with his father wouldn't be convincing since a lot of the context would be gone but I decided that it wasn't all that important that I give specifics. I was hoping that knowing that they're not good terms was enough and that the readers would make their own conclusions about what happened to get them to that point. So I am interested in what you have to say so I can know what to do better for next time.
Maybe it was annoying. That was an idea that sprung up mid-way through writing it. I wanted to have something recurring to make the whole thing feel more unified if that makes any sense but it appears that I failed.
It's understandable that you wouldn't be wowed by it. Most of my stories strive for a simple and quaint atmosphere. I focus on on capturing emotions or ideas from very ordinary, basic scenarios not necessarily trying to be wild or inventive. But what do you think I could have done to make it more exciting(?) or rather, more surprising?
Regardless, it's a shame I couldn't meet your expectations. Thank you for you comments!
RavenxSinon wrote...
Just be wary of some missing punctuation marks though.;)
That one damn sentence. No matter how many times I reread, how slowly I read, and how large I magnify things, something always slips through. C'est la vie. Thanks for your comments.
1
Well, I can say in good conscience that your entry is one of the better in the contest that I have read thus far. Seems that you've once again done well with the thing that you're already known and loved for. Simple, embellished story about life.
Regarding grammars, for the most part I found the story easy to understand without many errors. However, there were parts that seemed like you ignored out of your own deliberations.
Regarding the story, to me, it seems fine for the most parts. The hatred for his father of the main character was very clear (if anything, was somewhat too clear), and I can see where's he coming from. However, he was not a total ass, and seemingly love his older sister, as it would normally be the case. Then at the end of the story, he takes up 'the white elephant' of the story when she was abandoned. At first, it would be what the readers expect from this kind of story. However, considering the conditions of the guy, while it's apparent that he's not wealthy, in retrospect, I would pass off this guy as being rash and didn't think things through (and apparently know nothing of legal shits, too), though with good intents. But it's come from his empathy of the girl being tossed into his same situation years ago, so it guess it balance out the scale, and (acceptably) worked out in the end for me. Good job.
One thing baffled me was that these characters never talk about the mother(s). Biologically speaking, it's hard to imagine that these 30-years-inbetween siblings had the same mother. Even if they did in some weird cosmic designs, why did they never talk about her? Normally, it's the other parent (most times, it's the mother) who helped the children put up with domestic abuse, so I imagine this guy would have immense emotions for his mother. It just seems like a incomplete piece of story when this issue was never mentioned, imo. Maybe you did not want to over-complicate things in fear of accordance with the word limit, but only minimal mentions of her (them) would be fine.
Abandon issue also seems to be the norm of entrants who decided to go with the 'Elderly' theme too.
Regarding grammars, for the most part I found the story easy to understand without many errors. However, there were parts that seemed like you ignored out of your own deliberations.
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Regarding the story, to me, it seems fine for the most parts. The hatred for his father of the main character was very clear (if anything, was somewhat too clear), and I can see where's he coming from. However, he was not a total ass, and seemingly love his older sister, as it would normally be the case. Then at the end of the story, he takes up 'the white elephant' of the story when she was abandoned. At first, it would be what the readers expect from this kind of story. However, considering the conditions of the guy, while it's apparent that he's not wealthy, in retrospect, I would pass off this guy as being rash and didn't think things through (and apparently know nothing of legal shits, too), though with good intents. But it's come from his empathy of the girl being tossed into his same situation years ago, so it guess it balance out the scale, and (acceptably) worked out in the end for me. Good job.
One thing baffled me was that these characters never talk about the mother(s). Biologically speaking, it's hard to imagine that these 30-years-inbetween siblings had the same mother. Even if they did in some weird cosmic designs, why did they never talk about her? Normally, it's the other parent (most times, it's the mother) who helped the children put up with domestic abuse, so I imagine this guy would have immense emotions for his mother. It just seems like a incomplete piece of story when this issue was never mentioned, imo. Maybe you did not want to over-complicate things in fear of accordance with the word limit, but only minimal mentions of her (them) would be fine.
Spoiler:
Abandon issue also seems to be the norm of entrants who decided to go with the 'Elderly' theme too.
1
Sound wrote...
You think so? What makes you say that? I'm curious.It felt like you took every possible opportunity to remind readers that the narrator had a bad relationship with his father. I got this aspect of the story early on, but you still kept throwing these lines at me, that as far as I could tell, served no purpose other than to get across how much the narrator hated his father. Obviously, there are going to be moments when it comes up naturally in the story like in conversations between characters, but then there are also moments when I was like, "Really? Do we really need this here?"
This may be a bit of a rude way to look at it, but think about it like this: every time you throw in one more hint about something, you're basically saying that all of the other hints that come before it are not enough for the average reader to pick up on this plot point or whatever it is. For the most part, readers are smart people who can pick up on things and don't like it when the writer insults their intelligence. Of course, there's a balancing act here you have to work out. Do too little and no one's going to get it.
There was a lot more about the father in the earlier drafts but I quickly realized that I didn't have enough words to do what I wanted so I scrapped it to focus more on him and the girl. I was worried that maybe his bad relationship with his father wouldn't be convincing since a lot of the context would be gone but I decided that it wasn't all that important that I give specifics.
Sometimes you need specifics, other times, not so much. In this case, knowing that things were bad enough for the narrator to run away was enough for me.
It's understandable that you wouldn't be wowed by it. Most of my stories strive for a simple and quaint atmosphere. I focus on on capturing emotions or ideas from very ordinary, basic scenarios not necessarily trying to be wild or inventive. But what do you think I could have done to make it more exciting(?) or rather, more surprising?
I could see where this story was going well before it got there. That's the problem I have with the ending. Keep in mind though that it's still an enjoyable ending for me. I personally wish there was a little more to it, but that's subjective of course. And I'm not saying this story or all stories need a crazy twist or something like that.
When I said this story is solid, I mean it. Your protagonist is likable (despite all the whining he does about his father), you've got the girl who's surrounded by lazy adults who don't want to take on any responsibilities and I immediately sympathize with her for that, and the one other family member the narrator interacts with of more than a few seconds (the sister) feels like a real person and she offers a slightly different view of things that make this situation not so black and white.
What makes this story solid for me and not great is the simple fact that it doesn't include any of the tropes that I really like. For example, I love supernatural elements, and this story doesn't have any. But that's clearly not the kind of story you wanted to tell here.
On a side note, your user name sounded familiar but I couldn't quite remember where I'd seen it before, so I looked at the topics you've made in the past, and it turns out you're the one who wrote my favorite entry from last year's contest.
1
Sound of Destiny
Inbetweener
Dawn_of_Dark wrote...
You clearly love to structure your story with dialogues, most of the times with simple ones with only two characters talking. With that, you don't seem to ever include any narratives behind a line, and I guess that could be fine in your case. However, I sometimes find myself crave to know what the characters think after a sentence, when it's not clear what they think about it with the following sentence.I did have a lot of narratives in the story I submitted for last year's contest but in this instance, I knew I wouldn't be able to get through the whole story without being more conservative. That's why I put a lot of time into making the dialogue fit the situations and characters so that their emotions and reactions would be reflected through their words/actions. I also wanted to try doing something with mostly just dialogue. Think of it like a movie or tv show script where it's all just actions and dialogue with very rare inner monologues here and there.
Dawn_of_Dark wrote...
One thing baffled me was that these characters never talk about the mother(s).You're very much right. Their mother is, in fact, dead. You see, there was originally a line about that but when I started cutting out parts about the father, it also got removed. I just forgot to add it in somewhere else. Huge oversight on my part. Note to self: Don't write when you're sleep deprived.[/quote]
d(^_^)(^_^)d wrote...
Sound wrote...
You think so? What makes you say that? I'm curious.What makes this story solid for me and not great is the simple fact that it doesn't include any of the tropes that I really like. For example, I love supernatural elements, and this story doesn't have any. But that's clearly not the kind of story you wanted to tell here.
That's fair. I react similarly when I have to read dark/edgy stories.
d(^_^)(^_^)d wrote...
On a side note, your user name sounded familiar but I couldn't quite remember where I'd seen it before, so I looked at the topics you've made in the past, and it turns out you're the one who wrote my favorite entry from last year's contest.To be honest, I'm still surprised that people liked that story as much as they did. Whenever I go back and read it again it just seems so messy and poorly thought-out. Well, you know what they say: You are your own worst critic.
1
Sound of Destiny wrote...
I did have a lot of narratives in the story I submitted for last year's contest but in this instance, I knew I wouldn't be able to get through the whole story without being more conservative. That's why I put a lot of time into making the dialogue fit the situations and characters so that their emotions and reactions would be reflected through their words/actions. I also wanted to try doing something with mostly just dialogue. Think of it like a movie or tv show script where it's all just actions and dialogue with very rare inner monologues here and there.I know it all too well, haha. In fact, I submitted a story with nothing but dialogues for last year's winter contest. If you have time, you can check that out. And if you have even more time, you can check my entry for this year too, but it's not as pleasant to read as the other piece. In reality, I think I made a worse story than I did last year. I would really love any comments you have for them.
0
Sound of Destiny wrote...
d(^_^)(^_^)d wrote...
What makes this story solid for me and not great is the simple fact that it doesn't include any of the tropes that I really like. For example, I love supernatural elements, and this story doesn't have any. But that's clearly not the kind of story you wanted to tell here.That's fair. I react similarly when I have to read dark/edgy stories.
I suppose I should add to what I said there. Reading that again, it's not quite what I meant to say. Just because a story doesn't include certain tropes, themes, and archetypes doesn't mean it can't be great in my opinion. It just means it has to work that much harder.
0
i like how the atmosphere of this story is filled with problematic characters, in which their dialogues do get filled with humanly vibe, that i can relate to them just by their conversations.
one thing which made me think of it as describing the elderly theme in a solid way, is how the elders, who were supposed to protect the children, actually made fun of her and the protagonist who acted like an actual figure of an elder--protecting those who are in need, and guiding them when they were lost.
maybe the other entries had that thing of vibe, but i feel this one is which i felt the most impact on because i could really care about the main characters and it gave a satisfying end for me. nice job :D
one thing which made me think of it as describing the elderly theme in a solid way, is how the elders, who were supposed to protect the children, actually made fun of her and the protagonist who acted like an actual figure of an elder--protecting those who are in need, and guiding them when they were lost.
maybe the other entries had that thing of vibe, but i feel this one is which i felt the most impact on because i could really care about the main characters and it gave a satisfying end for me. nice job :D
1
leonard267
FAKKU Non-Writer
I promised that I would get to your entry. I am sorry that it took me over a month to do so. Still better late than never! Here is what I thought about your entry in the format I used for the other entries:
1. Must be readable:
I would like state again that I disliked the use of to and fro dialogue without any explanation of what is going on or any breaks in between. What made this entry comprehensible to me is the first break in dialogue where it explains what situation our hero is in. I am sorry to say that I did not pay much attention to the exchange between the protagonist and his relative. Most of it seemed not to advance the plot much since it appeared to be mostly the older sister chiding then pleading with our hero.
I would have paid attention to it if there were some third-person exposition on why our hero left his family or more about the relationship between him and sister instead of it being implied through dialogue.
For example:
“I know that you two never got along but would it kill you to show some respect? The man’s still your father.”
That riled me. I was like a dam ready to burst after being emotionally blackmailed by my sister to pay my last respects to my father who doesn't deserve it. Hearing that word "respect" was the last straw that broke the camel's back. I raised my voice at Heather, channelling years of resentment built up against my abusive and irresponsible father toward her.
“Hell if I care! That geezer never did anything good for me anyway. And just for the record, I got this far in life without needing help from any of you so don’t even start with all that family crap.”
“Seriously, why are you being like this? You know we’re all just worried about you?” Heather was starting to become flustered and annoyed. I didn't expect to understand how I felt for my father was more lenient towards his daughters. Nonetheless, I continued railing at her as if yelling at her would make her understand how I feel.
“Bullshit! Ever since I ran away from home, I’ve been dead to them. This, so called, family of yours, they don’t want anything to do with me and let me tell you, the feeling is mutual.”
I still understood the story though because of those important breaks in dialogue which explained the story. By the way, this reminds me of Usagi Drop.
2. Must be funny:
This is really the reason why I didn't place your entry among my favourites. It isn't humorous though I see the attempt to adhere to the contest themes by placing an old man in it. I saw the potential for humour though with our protagonist having to suffer children, nagging relatives and a decrepit old man for a father at death's door.
If the child were less angelic and more bratty, if Heather started inquiring about when our hero is getting married and discussing funeral arrangements and inheritance issues, and if the protagonist's father asks if our hero's constipation problems have abated since the last time they met before dying, it could have made for a better entry in my opinion.
Then to be fair, if it were written like this, I don't think the entry could be voted the second best!
3. Must be written like leonard267:
It isn't. I can't see myself writing Usagi Drop without a nasty plot twist in the way that would most likely bring in cruel reality. Not to worry. As I said many times, writing like me is not a good thing.
PS: Why is called "Like Holding White Elephants"? Is it a reference to the child being hard to maintain?
1. Must be readable:
I would like state again that I disliked the use of to and fro dialogue without any explanation of what is going on or any breaks in between. What made this entry comprehensible to me is the first break in dialogue where it explains what situation our hero is in. I am sorry to say that I did not pay much attention to the exchange between the protagonist and his relative. Most of it seemed not to advance the plot much since it appeared to be mostly the older sister chiding then pleading with our hero.
I would have paid attention to it if there were some third-person exposition on why our hero left his family or more about the relationship between him and sister instead of it being implied through dialogue.
For example:
“I know that you two never got along but would it kill you to show some respect? The man’s still your father.”
That riled me. I was like a dam ready to burst after being emotionally blackmailed by my sister to pay my last respects to my father who doesn't deserve it. Hearing that word "respect" was the last straw that broke the camel's back. I raised my voice at Heather, channelling years of resentment built up against my abusive and irresponsible father toward her.
“Hell if I care! That geezer never did anything good for me anyway. And just for the record, I got this far in life without needing help from any of you so don’t even start with all that family crap.”
“Seriously, why are you being like this? You know we’re all just worried about you?” Heather was starting to become flustered and annoyed. I didn't expect to understand how I felt for my father was more lenient towards his daughters. Nonetheless, I continued railing at her as if yelling at her would make her understand how I feel.
“Bullshit! Ever since I ran away from home, I’ve been dead to them. This, so called, family of yours, they don’t want anything to do with me and let me tell you, the feeling is mutual.”
I still understood the story though because of those important breaks in dialogue which explained the story. By the way, this reminds me of Usagi Drop.
2. Must be funny:
This is really the reason why I didn't place your entry among my favourites. It isn't humorous though I see the attempt to adhere to the contest themes by placing an old man in it. I saw the potential for humour though with our protagonist having to suffer children, nagging relatives and a decrepit old man for a father at death's door.
If the child were less angelic and more bratty, if Heather started inquiring about when our hero is getting married and discussing funeral arrangements and inheritance issues, and if the protagonist's father asks if our hero's constipation problems have abated since the last time they met before dying, it could have made for a better entry in my opinion.
Then to be fair, if it were written like this, I don't think the entry could be voted the second best!
3. Must be written like leonard267:
It isn't. I can't see myself writing Usagi Drop without a nasty plot twist in the way that would most likely bring in cruel reality. Not to worry. As I said many times, writing like me is not a good thing.
PS: Why is called "Like Holding White Elephants"? Is it a reference to the child being hard to maintain?
1
Sound of Destiny
Inbetweener
leonard267 wrote...
I would like state again that I disliked the use of to and fro dialogue without any explanation of what is going on or any breaks in between.Sad to say, but I've been trying to move away from that. If possible, I'd rather not put in exposition, narration, or explanations for things that can already be implied. If a character is clearly angry in dialogue why should I explicitly state that he is angry? I like stories that don't spell out all the answers. The ones that let me think for myself. That's one of things that annoys me in anime and manga. When they feel the need to tell me how a character feels instead of letting me see it through their face or their movement. But that's just, like, my opinion man.
This is really the reason why I didn't place your entry among my favourites. It isn't humorous though I see the attempt to adhere to the contest themes by placing an old man in it.
Now, I sort of have a problem with that as well as "being written in your style" being main criteria. You see, at first I wanted to do a comedy but ultimately decided against it because I didn't think I could pull it off. I was under the impression that this was fine though because it was never explicitly stated in the rules that it had to be humorous or written in your style. So while I don't think it's wrong of you to look for those elements, I don't think it's entirely fair, as a judge, for those 2 to be part of the main 3 criteria that you judged these stories on. If you look at the 3 entries in the finals poll, none of them were humorous or written in your style. In fact, out of the 9 entires, I can only consider 3 as humorous. I just feel like that's a far too biased way for a judge to be looking at things.
PS: Why is called "Like Holding White Elephants"? Is it a reference to the child being hard to maintain?
Because Rowan and Lily were both troublesome and unwanted possessions that couldn't just be thrown away. One is generally disliked but can't be told to piss off out of a sense of respect and familial bond while the other is a kid with questionable birth details. She can't take care of herself but no one wants to have that amount of responsibility thrust on them. Neither one is wanted but they're there and can't be gotten rid of easily. Thus, they are white elephants.
1
leonard267
FAKKU Non-Writer
Sound of Destiny wrote...
Sad to say, but I've been trying to move away from that. If possible, I'd rather not put in exposition, narration, or explanations for things that can already be implied. If a character is clearly angry in dialogue why should I explicitly state that he is angry? I like stories that don't spell out all the answers. The ones that let me think for myself. That's one of things that annoys me in anime and manga. When they feel the need to tell me how a character feels instead of letting me see it through their face or their movement. But that's just, like, my opinion man.
I didn't say you have to state explicitly *that* he is angry. Rather, I would like the writer to state *why* he is angry. Now, this can't be explained in detail through dialogue without it sounding awkward neither can it be implied because they are plenty of possible reasons why our protagonist is angry towards his father.
Writing is a totally different medium from television which is why I would like things explained when it comes to things in print. There are no visual or audio cues. While you can imply what had happened to our protagonist in his past through visual flashbacks on television or how he feels through his facial expressions, I don't have that luxury in print. So the to and fro dialogue is confusing to me, especially when what ought to be spelt out isn't spelt out. I don't think I will be figuring anything, I'd just be guessing.
Now, I sort of have a problem with that as well as "being written in your style" being main criteria. I was under the impression that this was fine though because it was never explicitly stated in the rules that it had to be humorous or written in your style. You see, at first I wanted to do a comedy but ultimately decided against it because I didn't think I could pull it off. So while I don't think it's wrong of you to look for those elements, I don't think it's entirely fair, as a judge, for those 2 to be part of the main 3 criteria that you judged these stories on. If you look at the 3 entries in the finals poll, none of them were humorous or written in your style. In fact, out of the 9 entries, I can only consider 3 as humorous. I just feel like that's a far too biased way for a judge to be looking at things.
I made it clear in one of my posts how I would judge the entries. You can read it here where I said that the contest is my personal attempt to make other people write the way I do. Also, the contest usually expects writers to adhere with the themes and it so happens that I came up with the theme 'comedy'.
https://www.fakku.net/forums/writing-and-fanfiction/winter-writing-contest-2015#4538193
The 3 criteria as I explained in other reviews are in descending order of importance with readability as the most important (and 6 out of the 9 entries I deemed are readable, yours included) and it being written in my style the least. There are many good entries submitted this contest and while you might think it unreasonable, these criteria does help whittle down which entries that will make it to the top 2.
As for your remarks about bias, this is why we have more than one judge and that is why we have the polls. high_time placed your entry as one of the best ones and you were ranked one of the best in the polls. Every judge who judges have his or her biases which explains why I don't really win these sort of contests. I have asked judges from previous contests what they thought of my entries and I get wildly different responses with some loving it and others loathing it. I guess this entry is no different.
Because Rowan and Lily were both troublesome and unwanted possessions that couldn't just be thrown away. One is generally disliked but can't be told to piss off out of a sense of respect and familial bond while the other is a kid with questionable birth details. She can't take care of herself but no one wants to have that amount of responsibility thrust on them. Neither one is wanted but they're there and can't be gotten rid of easily. Thus, they are white elephants.
I see. I applaud your efforts to write a short story below 2000 words with a plot. I can't really do that if put into that position. It'd have to have a higher word limit.
1
Sound of Destiny
Inbetweener
leonard267 wrote...
I didn't say you have to state explicitly *that* he is angry. Rather, I would like the writer to state *why* he is angry. Now, this can't be explained in detail through dialogue without it sounding awkward neither can it be implied because they are plenty of possible reasons why our protagonist is angry towards his father.
Writing is a totally different medium from television which is why I would like things explained when it comes to things in print. There are no visual or audio cues. While you can imply what had happened to our protagonist in his past through visual flashbacks on television or how he feels through his facial expressions, I don't have that luxury in print. So the to and fro dialogue is confusing to me, especially when what ought to be spelt out isn't spelt out. I don't think I will be figuring anything, I'd just be guessing.
While I understand where you're coming from, I still don't quite agree. There are so many little things that a person can use to infer about a scene or a character. What a character says and how he says it, the location and atmosphere, what he does and what others do to him, etc. These can all be used to imply a greater meaning without having any attention brought to them. My favourite moments when reading are when I'm able to piece together something, such as an insight into the inner workings of a character or a deeper thematic element of the story, on my own. It's seriously cathartic to know that I was able to take all the little elements and relate them to one another in a way that makes sense. If I'm told things straight then I don't need to think as hard or look at the big picture because it's already being done for me. If I outright stated why Rowan was so fed up with his father or why he left, then I would take that feeling away from my readers, which I don't want to do. I left the hints there and whether or not the readers are able to come to the conclusion that is in line with what I intended, I'm happy. As long as I got them to think about it, that is.
To give an example from this story (since I don't want to name bomb a story that you might not have read). Rowan, Heather, and Lily are all names of various species of plants while Sylvester is derived from the Latin word for "woodland." So when Rowan first finds out that her name is Lily he says, "Well she’s definitely his kid," because he knows his father liked that kind of stuff (which was stated earlier). So if you didn't already have an extensive knowledge of plants and etymology you wouldn't really understand why he said this. But then one reader might decide to look up the names of the characters (something that a teacher of mine has taught me to do whenever reading something new) and suddenly they've discovered an entirely new way of looking at things. A new angle in which to dissect the meaning of the story. Another reader might interpret this line as, "He can tell that she's his father's daughter because her demeanour is passive and meek. Perhaps this indicates that she was abused! That must be why Rowan left." And while that's not what I intended, I wouldn't say that this viewpoint is "wrong". It's just different and perhaps by looking at it differently, the reader is able to learn something about themselves, others, or life as a whole (hypothetically speaking of course) that they wouldn't have otherwise. Because I didn't explicitly highlight this connection, there are now multiple avenues in which to answer the question of why he said that line. None of them are right and none of them are wrong. They're all just different perspectives to answer the same question. And I'm not claiming that this particular story is that deep, well thought out, or worthy of extensive analysis. But rather, that is what I'm striving to achieve.
So when you say that you'd just be guessing, that's actually what I want you to do. Now of course, this won't be for everyone. I know for a fact (well, based off what you've said in the past at least) that you dislike it when things are open for interpretation and that's fine. Different people like different things. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this matter.
Also, the contest usually expects writers to adhere with the themes and it so happens that I came up with the theme 'comedy'.
Well, it's only stated that you have to follow one of the themes, not both, and when you look at all the different entries, most only followed one of the two themes.
As for your remarks about bias, this is why we have more than one judge and that is why we have the polls. high_time placed your entry as one of the best ones and you were ranked one of the best in the polls. Every judge who judges have his or her biases which explains why I don't really win these sort of contests. I have asked judges from previous contests what they thought of my entries and I get wildly different responses with some loving it and others loathing it. I guess this entry is no different.
Oh, I understand that. Bias is impossible to stop and part of being a good critic is understanding that you're biased and how that bias affects your line of thinking. I'm not asking for you to remove your bias, I just feel like as a judge, it's your duty to those entering to be as balanced in your viewpoint as possible. To give an example, I like sports movies but if I was to judge a set of films, it wouldn't be okay for me to favor the sports movies and the other movies with similar elements/themes/tone, especially because the elements that I like about sports movies wouldn't necessarily fit into other genres. I wouldn't expect a nihilistic cyberpunk story to have characters that go through immense struggle only to come out triumphant through hard work, determination, and good-naturedness. And neither would I expect a nuanced character drama to have intense 30-minute long action scenes. As a judge I must be able to look past all the things that I instinctively like and dislike to find the one that achieves what it set out to do in the most effective and compelling way possible. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.
I see. I applaud your efforts to write a short story below 2000 words with a plot. I can't really do that if put into that position. It'd have to have a higher word limit.
It really helps when a story is almost entirely composed of dialogue. Having those conversations end in a way that felt organic did force me to extend some things more than I'd have liked though. Either way, since I tried to cut out anything I felt was unneeded, I was able to get through a lot more with a lot less. It was still quite the challenge to meet the word count though. On another note, it'd have been nice to show what life would have been like for the pair after they started living together but perhaps that's better left to the imagination.
Also, sorry if I seemed aggressive or whatever in the first post. That wasn't my intention. Even if we disagree on certain things, I appreciate you taking the time to criticise my story and reply to these walls of text.
1
leonard267
FAKKU Non-Writer
Sound of Destiny wrote...
While I understand where you're coming from, I still don't quite agree. There are so many little things that a person can use to infer about a scene or a character. What a character says and how he says it, the location and atmosphere, what he does and what others do to him, etc. These can all be used to imply a greater meaning without having any attention brought to them. My favourite moments when reading are when I'm able to piece together something, such as an insight into the inner workings of a character or a deeper thematic element of the story, on my own. It's seriously cathartic to know that I was able to take all the little elements and relate them to one another in a way that makes sense. If I'm told things straight then I don't need to think as hard or look at the big picture because it's already being done for me. If I outright stated why Rowan was so fed up with his father or why he left, then I would take that feeling away from my readers, which I don't want to do. I left the hints there and whether or not the readers are able to come to the conclusion that is in line with what I intended, I'm happy. As long as I got them to think about it, that is.
I didn't react to your entry the way you intended because I can't read the writer's mind. This catharsis can only be felt by the writer I feel unless you and I were to read the entry together with you dropping a few hints here and there and asking me to read your entry again.
I never really understood why things aren't spelt out in modern literature. If I were to understand what is going on, if I were to sympathise with our hero wouldn't it make sense to at least explain what is his predicament at the beginning? This approach of not doing that is really like throwing me the jigsaw pieces without showing me the picture I am supposed to piece together.
To be fair, this isn't that much of a problem for your entry because you flat out explained what had happened albeit through dialogue. The refusal to spell things out or at least give an idea what is going on is really a problem not for this entry but for a couple of other entries submitted for this contest.
So when you say that you'd just be guessing, that's actually what I want you to do. Now of course, this won't be for everyone. I know for a fact (well, based off what you've said in the past at least) that you dislike it when things are open for interpretation and that's fine. Different people like different things. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this matter.
I don't think it is a matter of taste. If the reader is left guessing what is going on even after he read the story wouldn't you agree that the writer didn't do his job properly? I am not talking about stories that have open or unresolved endings. I am talking about entries like Dawn of Dark's (to exaggerate a little) where the narrative is completely incomprehensible.
Once again, to be fair, I don't think the entry is hard to understand on the whole. Once it was clear that the protagonist's father left a girl under no one's care, the entire story is easy to follow. I just didn't like the lines of dialogue at the opening which don't seem to serve a purpose, especially when a line of exposition would suffice.
Well, it's only stated that you have to follow one of the themes, not both, and when you look at all the different entries, most only followed one of the two themes.
Well, bonus points to those who came up with the entry that adhered to both of the themes which is why I thought Yanker's entry ought to win. The purpose of me setting criteria is to shortlist the entries that ought to win. This is useful especially when many of the entries are well written.
I just feel like as a judge, it's your duty to those entering to be as balanced in your viewpoint as possible.
As a judge I must be able to look past all the things that I instinctively like and dislike to find the one that achieves what it set out to do in the most effective and compelling way possible. I hope you can understand where I'm coming from.
I disagree in the context of this contest. I see myself as someone who is grading essays based on requirements that I and the judges stipulated. They so happen to reflect my tastes in writing. Some of the entries adhered to the requirements better than yours so I, with the other judges have to deem those better entries.
I don't think it is possible to discard bias when it comes to judging something as subjective as writing or other art forms, especially when I am more inclined towards entries that are more straightforward and clear.
It doesn't make sense for me to judge an entry I can't understand or fail to appreciate as a better entry compared to one that I can easily understand.
It really helps when a story is almost entirely composed of dialogue. Having those conversations end in a way that felt organic did force me to extend some things more than I'd have liked though. Either way, since I tried to cut out anything I felt was unneeded, I was able to get through a lot more with a lot less.
Some of the dialogue especially those towards the end, I can understand. That is only possible if the setting of the story is established. I just can't see how Rowan's (and indeed Lily's) predicament can be explained with to and fro dialogue. It is possible with a long monologue but that might be awkward.
However, I felt that the parts where Heather and Rowan were arguing can be trimmed down. During my first read of your entry, I almost skipped that part entirely.
Also, sorry if I seemed aggressive or whatever in the first post. That wasn't my intention. Even if we disagree on certain things, I appreciate you taking the time to criticise my story and reply to these walls of text.
Don't worry about it. I enjoy arguing which is why I took the time to write down all of these. Glad to have an opportunity to speak with a user especially after this site has gone commercial.
1
Sound of Destiny
Inbetweener
leonard267 wrote...
I didn't react to your entry the way you intended because I can't read the writer's mind. This catharsis can only be felt by the writer I feel unless you and I were to read the entry together with you dropping a few hints here and there and asking me to read your entry again.
I never really understood why things aren't spelt out in modern literature. If I were to understand what is going on, if I were to sympathise with our hero wouldn't it make sense to at least explain what is his predicament at the beginning? This approach of not doing that is really like throwing me the jigsaw pieces without showing me the picture I am supposed to piece together.
Then perhaps you're just not the type of reader that I and other writers with a similar style cater to. When I watch a film or tv show I look at the cinematography, the shot composition, the editing, and ask myself what they're all trying to say. It's the same with literature. Why did the author choose this word or use this punctuation? I want to get into the head of the creator so that I can understand the reasoning for things. Some people don't think that way though and that's fine.
I don't think it is a matter of taste. If the reader is left guessing what is going on even after he read the story wouldn't you agree that the writer didn't do his job properly? I am not talking about stories that have open or unresolved endings. I am talking about entries like Dawn of Dark's (to exaggerate a little) where the narrative is completely incomprehensible.
Well I can't exactly agree with that. If that were the case than many of the greatest writers/directors/musicians/artists of all time would not have done their job properly. I mean wouldn't that make poetry as a medium of expression inherently flawed considering it's tendency to be abstract and ambiguous? If anything I'd say it depends. There's a big difference between being incomprehensible and being interpretable or information dense. I wouldn't even say that Verdict and the Chase is incomprehensible, just excessively convoluted and unfocused, which is a whole other set of problems.
Once again, to be fair, I don't think the entry is hard to understand on the whole. Once it was clear that the protagonist's father left a girl under no one's care, the entire story is easy to follow. I just didn't like the lines of dialogue at the opening which don't seem to serve a purpose, especially when a line of exposition would suffice.
I assume you're talking about the old ladies gossiping? Well that is there for a purpose, even if it does not seem apparent. I wanted to make it seem like we were eavesdropping, listening in to this conversation because that's what our main character was doing. He wasn't talking to anyone so he just listens to what other people are saying. All the while, a point of interest is set because we don't actually find out exactly what they're talking about. I do a lot things to achieve effects like this but maybe I don't do it right. I never studied writing extensively, never took any classes or read books about it. So whenever something that's meant to evoke a certain literary element, such as tension/intrigue/suspense, I just do it based on what I know and how I imagine it should go. I felt like being dropped in the middle of a conversation mirrored what the main character was experiencing and made us aware of something important down the line. I didn't think a line of exposition would have felt the same. That's why I put that there whether it was the right call or not.
I disagree in the context of this contest. I see myself as someone who is grading an essays based on requirements that I and the judges stipulated. They so happen to reflect my tastes in writing. Some of the entries adhered to the requirements better than yours so I, with the other judges have to deem those better entries.
I don't think it is possible to discard bias when it comes to judging something as subjective as writing or other art forms, especially when I am more inclined towards entries that are more straightforward and clear.
It doesn't make sense for me to judge an entry I can't understand or fail to appreciate as a better entry compared to one that I can easily understand.
I don't think it is possible to discard bias when it comes to judging something as subjective as writing or other art forms, especially when I am more inclined towards entries that are more straightforward and clear.
It doesn't make sense for me to judge an entry I can't understand or fail to appreciate as a better entry compared to one that I can easily understand.
I still don't quite agree with that but the contest is over already there's not much sense in arguing about it anymore. So I'll just go ahead and let sleeping dogs lie.
Some of the dialogue especially those towards the end, I can understand. That is only possible if the setting of the story is established. I just can't see how Rowan's (and indeed Lily's) predicament can be explained with to and fro dialogue. It is possible with a long monologue but that might be awkward.
I don't really see where this confusion is coming from. The most essential parts of the plot seemed clear enough to me. I consciously made the decision to write a more straightforward story knowing that you and high_time would prefer it that way. I would understand if you said this about my entry for the summer contest last year because I really didn't spell out the issue/conflict (or really anything else) there. Here, the scene is set and the characters act against what happens to them. The situation seems clear and the events that occur seem clear so what exactly do you mean when you say that you can't see how their predicament can be explained with to and fro dialogue? Are you referring to the more emotional aspects?
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I wanted to make it seem like we were eavesdropping, listening in to this conversation because that's what our main character was doing. He wasn't talking to anyone so he just listens to what other people are saying.
I just thought I'd jump in and say that I did not get that the protagonist is eavesdropping on the conversation at the beginning.
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leonard267
FAKKU Non-Writer
Sorry for the late reply. I was working long hours yesterday.
Yes. Your entry is more or less understandable because it explained things in places. The part where we see Rowan monologuing, explaining why he is here and who mattered in that story, established the setting of the story which made it easy to follow.
As for my dislike for dialogue, I will say that more often than not dialogue is problematic in explaining things, here it is the conflict concerning both Lily and Rowan. I can think of these points:
1. The persons involved in the dialogue know what they are talking about so they won't explain things that third parties might not know.
2. They tend to be short and brief and so it is more likely for me to miss out parts that are important in the story. I might not even understand it properly because dialogue tends to be in fragmented sentences.
3. Personally for me, it is hard to keep track of who is saying what in to and fro dialogue.
I will enclose in this spoiler what I found a little trying to read from your entry. In fact, I think these so happen to be the most important lines in the story. This spoiler contains part of the exchange explaining the conflict pertaining to Lily (and interesting enough, before this it explained Rowan's problems).
I don't really see where this confusion is coming from. The most essential parts of the plot seemed clear enough to me. I consciously made the decision to write a more straightforward story knowing that you and high_time would prefer it that way. I would understand if you said this about my entry for the summer contest last year because I really didn't spell out the issue/conflict (or really anything else) there. Here, the scene is set and the characters act against what happens to them. The situation seems clear and the events that occur seem clear so what exactly do you mean when you say that you can't see how their predicament can be explained with to and fro dialogue? Are you referring to the more emotional aspects.
Yes. Your entry is more or less understandable because it explained things in places. The part where we see Rowan monologuing, explaining why he is here and who mattered in that story, established the setting of the story which made it easy to follow.
As for my dislike for dialogue, I will say that more often than not dialogue is problematic in explaining things, here it is the conflict concerning both Lily and Rowan. I can think of these points:
1. The persons involved in the dialogue know what they are talking about so they won't explain things that third parties might not know.
2. They tend to be short and brief and so it is more likely for me to miss out parts that are important in the story. I might not even understand it properly because dialogue tends to be in fragmented sentences.
3. Personally for me, it is hard to keep track of who is saying what in to and fro dialogue.
I will enclose in this spoiler what I found a little trying to read from your entry. In fact, I think these so happen to be the most important lines in the story. This spoiler contains part of the exchange explaining the conflict pertaining to Lily (and interesting enough, before this it explained Rowan's problems).
Spoiler: