leonard267 Posts

leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
high_time wrote...
leonard267 wrote...

I know d will protest, but I found that easier to understand than GOT. This is partly because I roughly know that a contractor has to pay his client a bond before he could start work.


ah yeah, I kind of understood that :D


You understood the Game of Thrones?! Please tell me what the first chapter on Bran was all about!
leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
high_time wrote...
leonard267 wrote...

Choke on this:

Spoiler:
In the event the Contractor fails to provide the cash deposit or conforming Bond, notwithstanding the passing of the Commencement Date and the issuance by The employer’s Representative of any Interim Payment Certificate certifying for payment to the Contractor under the Contract, the Employer may deduct from or retain the whole or any part of the Response Amount.


i don't really know what its about but sure i chuckled


I know d will protest, but I found that easier to understand than GOT. This is partly because I roughly know that a contractor has to pay his client a bond before he could start work.
leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
That was brilliant! I love an anticlimax.
leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
d(^_^)(^_^)d wrote...

And what does pacing have to do with simple explanation? I don't see how the prologue of the Game of Thrones be in anyway less readable if Martin bothered to explain what the Night Watch is. What I wanted is an explanation of what the terms mean.


I have another possible reason why GRRM didn't place convenient explanations of terms commonplace in the world of the story. Point of view. As you've no doubt noticed, the book is told from limited third person. It follows Will specifically in the prologue. It would therefor be strange for him to ponder on words he need not ponder on. He knows all too well what wildlings are, the purpose of rangings for rangers of the Night's Watch and what a lordling is. Breaking point of view breaks immersion, and that's a big deal for some people.


I hate to bring up Lord of the Rings again but the Lord of the Rings did that just fine with exposition along with the story told from the point of view of a character. For example the journey within Mordor's borders was told in the view of Samwise Gamgee and there was quite a lot of exposition about the monster Shelob (pg 707) which he had to face.

I think it is all about the execution. It might also have to do with the fact that I did not watch the series before reading the Game of Thrones. (Yet again it might not be the case. I understood the Scouring of the Shire, not shown in the film, quite well and it is one my favourite chapters of the novel)

Spoiler:
The Logophile wrote...
leonard267 wrote...


I checked my Oxford for wildling and lordling.

Wildling can also mean "a wild creature or an animal" apart from the one you provided.

Lordling had two definitions:

1. (My paraphrasing) A smaller or minor lord, often used contemptuously.
2. Obsolete A type of apple.

So maybe Martin is actually talking about plants and apples fighting each other.

Forum Image: http://cdn.hark.com/images/000/006/085/6085/original.0


Thanks for the information. I (and George Martin) was wrong about 'lordling' being a scion of a lord. All the more the need to explain terms!

high_time wrote...
leonard267 wrote...

That is too generous. What I meant to say is, there must be at least some explanation for the terms you are throwing out. At this rate, even a business contract would be more readable than the Game of Thrones!


what you mean like an exposition.

that's a funny thought lol, a business contract :D

I suddenly remember a joke mentioning some contract 'bout asking a sperm donation from various people, and they won't take those who could read the contract because they're obviously lawyers.


Choke on this:

Spoiler:
In the event the Contractor fails to provide the cash deposit or conforming Bond, notwithstanding the passing of the Commencement Date and the issuance by The employer’s Representative of any Interim Payment Certificate certifying for payment to the Contractor under the Contract, the Employer may deduct from or retain the whole or any part of the Response Amount.
leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
high_time wrote...
leonard267 wrote...

It is not exactly detailed explanations but a lack of explanation in my opinion. The story could have made so much sense if it included something like:

Led by the youthful noble Ser Weymar Royce, Gared and Will were scouts for the Night Watch, a band of men tasked with keeping an eye on the raiders from beyond north of the Wall. Wildlings, these raiders were called, for that was what they covered themselves in to conceal themselves as they made their forays into the sunlit uplands south of the Wall.


ah, it makes the story more interesting :D I now kinda remember D&D RPG thing with epic battles or something like LOTR.



That is too generous. What I meant to say is, there must be at least some explanation for the terms you are throwing out. At this rate, even a business contract would be more readable than the Game of Thrones!
leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
high_time wrote...
leonard267 wrote...

Hopefully by Saturday but I am not optimistic. I see the same repeating itself again and again throughout the prologue. New characters, new terms and names of organisations not explained in detail. Most of the plot had to be guessed by going through interpreting the dialogue and character interaction.

Not what I had in mind for a prologue.


maybe detailed explanations aren't all that necessary? I think if it could be somehow explained shortly as long as we get it, it's enough :) maybe some people just want to write the scenes like screenplay directors


It is not exactly detailed explanations but a lack of explanation in my opinion. The story could have made so much sense if it included something like:

Led by the youthful noble Ser Weymar Royce, Gared and Will were scouts for the Night Watch, a band of men tasked with keeping an eye on the raiders from beyond north of the Wall. Wildlings, these raiders were called, for that was what they covered themselves in to conceal themselves as they made their forays into the sunlit uplands south of the Wall.
leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
high_time wrote...
leonard267 wrote...

By any chance have you read an excerpt of my impressions of the GOT prologue? It is somewhere in the second page.


yeah I did.

when will you finish it? :)


Hopefully by Saturday but I am not optimistic. I see the same repeating itself again and again throughout the prologue. New characters, new terms and names of organisations not explained in detail. Most of the plot had to be guessed by going through interpreting the dialogue and character interaction.

Not what I had in mind for a prologue.

________________________________________________

Wait, it even gets more confusing from here!

Page 1:

Spoiler:
“Will saw them,” Gared said. “If he says they are dead, that’s proof enough for me.”
Will had known they would drag him into the quarrel sooner or later. He wished it had been later rather than sooner. “My mother told me that dead men sing no songs,” he put in.


"Will saw them", Gared said.

At that point of time, I thought that Will, whoever he is, was not likely part of Gared's and Ser Weymar Royce's company. Perhaps I would have an idea what he is at the very next line.

Will had known they would drag him into the quarrel sooner or later.

It turns out that was not the case. In fact, the introduction of Will felt jarring to me. Without any explanation of who he is, we are now seeing this story from his point of view. If I tried skimming through the first page, chances are I would miss Will completely.

The story continues from his point of view. It appears that finally we have some exposition to make sense of the story. I will enclose those bits in a spoiler...

Spoiler:
Will could see the tightness around Gared’s mouth, the barely suppressed anger in his eyes under the thick black hood of his cloak. Gared had spent forty years in the Night’s Watch, man and boy, and he was not accustomed to being made light of. Yet it was more than that. Under the wounded pride, Will could sense something else in the older man. You could taste it; a nervous tension that came perilous close to fear.

Will shared his unease. He had been four years on the Wall. The first time he had been sent beyond, all the old stories had come rushing back, and his bowels had turned to water. He had laughed about it afterward. He was a veteran of a hundred rangings by now, and the endless dark wilderness that the southron called the haunted forest had no more terrors for him.

Until tonight. Something was different tonight. There was an edge to this darkness that made his hackles rise. Nine days they had been riding, north and northwest and then north again, farther and farther from the Wall, hard on the track of a band of wildling raiders. Each day had been worse than the day that had come before it. Today was the worst of all. A cold wind was blowing out of the north, and it made the trees rustle like living things. All day, Will had felt as though something were watching him, something cold and implacable that loved him not. Gared had felt it too. Will wanted nothing so much as to ride hell-bent for the safety of the Wall, but that was not a feeling to share with your commander.


It seemed to explain matters. Yet, after reading that I had even more questions.

What is the Night Watch? Does it have anything to with Crime Watch? Are they trying to watch out for people having a hanky panky at night in the woods? Are they an occult group on the search of the supernatural?

What is a ranging? I don't think ranging is a noun the last time I checked that word in a dictionary. Could you explain it Mr. Martin?

Why are they hunting down wildling raiders? Ah... Perhaps that is what the Night Watch does, hunting down wildling raiders, whatever they are. However, I can't be too certain. Also, could you explain what a wildling is?

What is so safe about the Wall? In fact, other than a map, Martin hasn't given us a proper explanation of what the Wall is, its significance and so on.

For all the words put into explaining that something felt wrong, I still have no idea who they are, what they are and why they are doing what they do.

All I know is that they are part of the Night Watch, an organisation that I have never heard of, that they do rangings, which I never heard of, that they come from the Wall, a place I never heard of, and that they hunt wildling raiders, an endeavour that makes no sense to me since I don't see that many wildling plants behaving aggressively. Surely, these have to be addressed first before continuing the story? Otherwise, why should I care about them feeling uneasy?
leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
leonard267 wrote...

This made more sense than the prologue of that story!


maybe because it's much shorter and no sexual absurdity.[/quote]

By any chance have you read an excerpt of my impressions of the GOT prologue? It is somewhere in the second page.
leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
It strikes me as a small part of a larger story. A fight scene to be precise.
leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
Xenon wrote...
I just discovered this second thread.

Why do we have this second thread?

We really don't need a second thread.


There was a bug in the previous Lounge that appears to be resolved since you posted in it. I see that you appear to be unhappy with it though. Doesn't matter. I will use this thread for other purposes like posting drafts and chatting with others.

high_time wrote...
this is a draft.

titled : Game of Thongs

Spoiler:

How to play Game of Thongs.

You buy a thong.

Throw it in the ocean.

Win the game.

Yeah.


This made more sense than the prologue of that story!

d(^_^)(^_^)d wrote...
leonard267 wrote...
This makes me wonder why important terms and events are left for much later when it ought to be explained in the prologue. While it piques the curiosity of others, it frustrates me to come across terms like ranging which I don't understand. Makes it difficult for me to go through one chapter, let alone the entire book.


Well, ranging in particular isn't a term specific to the universe. I was able to sniff out its meaning from the context it was used in.

It's not all about making people curious. If I had to sum up in one word why every term isn't explained upon introduction, that word would be pacing.

It's not out of the ordinary for people to be turned off by the first chapters of a book but give it some more time and end up liking it. I think it's unreasonable to expect to have a good grasp of both the plot and the world after the prologue or even those first few chapters. Hell, sometimes you'll be lucky if you have a grasp on just one after the first 100 pages. That's the way the genre tends to work.


Not the case of the Lord of the Rings. The prologue centred around what hobbits are. After reading that prologue and the maps of the Shire, the first chapter made sense. The second chapter "The Shadow of the Past" was expository in nature. I counted 41 pages.

And what does pacing have to do with simple explanation? I don't see how the prologue of the Game of Thrones be in anyway less readable if Martin bothered to explain what the Night Watch is. What I wanted is an explanation of what the terms mean. A sentence like,

Led by the youthful noble Ser Weymar Royce, Gared and Will were scouts for the Night Watch, a band of men tasked with keeping an eye on the raiders from beyond north of the Wall. Wildlings these raiders were called for that was what they covered themselves in to conceal themselves as they made their forays into the sunlit uplands south of the Wall.

It could have made much more sense. I don't think that would ruin the pacing much.

Shikinokami wrote...


Also leo, I deeply recommend this image for the WRITER'S Lounge banner.

And, something which pleased me deeply today.

What's this supposed to mean?!

Spoiler:
Forum Image: http://i.imgbox.com/m3B9nux2.png


And I didn't even bother to read this.

Spoiler:
Forum Image: http://i.imgbox.com/LdTgPYOE.png


I have also the same thoughts as you after reading a comic you have showed me, Nanadome no Gomenne. I might consider reviewing it just to annoy you.

But yes, it is very strange why people would do that over one short sentence.
leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
Spoiler:
d(^_^)(^_^)d wrote...
leonard267 wrote...
d(^_^)(^_^)d wrote...
Leonard wrote...
Could he kindly explain what a Wildling is and what Gared is doing?


You'd have your answers in due it. ime if you were to continue reading.

That aside, will you be coming up with something for the writing event?


Of course. Might be cutting it a little close though.


The problem is he didn't. At least not in a straightforward manner. I will cover that in my review of the prologue. I am sure you know that I read the prologue.


I meant in a few chapters, which as I already may have said, is nothing for an 800 page fantasy book.


This makes me wonder why important terms and events are left for much later when it ought to be explained in the prologue. While it piques the curiosity of others, it frustrates me to come across terms like ranging which I don't understand. Makes it difficult for me to go through one chapter, let alone the entire book.
leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
d(^_^)(^_^)d wrote...
Leonard wrote...
Could he kindly explain what a Wildling is and what Gared is doing?


You'd have your answers in due it. ime if you were to continue reading.

That aside, will you be coming up with something for the writing event?


Of course. Might be cutting it a little close though.


The problem is he didn't. At least not in a straightforward manner. I will cover that in my review of the prologue. I am sure you know that I read the prologue.
leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
high_time wrote...
moar nonsense :D

Spoiler:

The Scent of My Balls

I love my balls. So I smell them everyday. It's like bacon wrapped on sausage beans. Maybe my balls won't love me back, but my own affection for my balls is true. As true as frozen coconut on sinsacks would be. I traveled seas far and wide just to eat my balls everyday. One hotdog cart full of my balls standing there. The bartender had some unhealthy affection for my genitals, so he ate them everyday until his shape being similar to my genitals. It's true, because I told you so. Believe me, I like you. Even if I lie to you, it's gonna be the truth, always forever, in the name of love.

My balls was an elephant who traveled eleven seas searching for his genitals. I didn't really care at first, but my balls insist on taking me with him throughout the journey. I like the way he moved his body, similar to a pregnant scrotum. I always adore how he ejaculated jelly beans each time he went seasick. At one time, he consulted the ship's captain and they had orgy sex down the storage room. When things calmed down, I checked it to see it being filled with the stench of naked men, naked women, and naked hermaphrodites, also tentacle monsters and asexual molds.

You can say, all my sexual fetishes could be summed up with just that one peculiar sproingy smell down the storage room. So I eventually masturbated 'til my genitals were thrown out of the sea. Doesn't matter, got one hundred thousand replacements. So I masturbated again and the captain ate my genitals as soon as he opened up the door and saw me whacking off my scrotum. He said my scrotum taste like bacon, the same way with how he eats the genitals of my balls everyday until he becomes addicted to it.

I say, why don't he try mutilating his balls everyday, make a meatball spaghetti and serve it to everyone on the deck. He was really happy that he could have something happy. That night we had dinner consisting on the captain's balls. Unfortunately, his face is now filled with his balls so he couldn't see us until we ate his balls straight from his face while singing the national anthem of our respective nations backwards. I guess we also want to invite satan so he could also eat spaghetti together with our balls.

Satan kinda goes in our company seeing as he had lots of lesbian hermaphrodites at hell that's filling up his place. He says: the genitals could reach one hundred thousand kilometers, even though, while it's settled down, it's only fifty nanometers. It's making the hell filled with genitals and Satan wants to listen to some emo rock songs instead. We played our respective national anthems in rock and roll tune but Satan cried to the point he start cutting himself.

The captain threw off his balls twice the light speed and it caused Satan to become unconscious. Eventually God went to pay a visit, and he simply took Satan back to University in order to earn a doctorate degree about utter nihilism. I said, we won't let you God, you ain't taking Satan back except you award us all with a gang full of hermaphrodites. So he reluctantly gave us hermaphrodites for the night. I guess that day we wished we didn't make a wish to God—he simply screws up everything.

Our assholes, vaginas, mouths, and even ear and eyesockets had never been so fucking sore. Maybe it's my fault after all, it's everyone's fault too for agreeing with me. I don't know, it's just probably not my fault at all. So with the hermaphrodites gone it's time for us to breathe a fresh air at the break of dawn. It's not all that simple since we've got to eat all of the leftover balls. So where the heck are my balls?

It's there. Playing hookey with Satan at the University. When God took Satan back, he simply hitch hiked on the cloud lord's party van because he was bored with us all, especially me. So my balls ascended to heaven, and now I'm still here, recuperating from his lost by rekindling the smell of my own balls.

End.


When are you going to submit an entry for the writing event?
leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
Shikinokami wrote...
I might add another chapter to dear Elliot's story.


I thought it ended already! I am now running through the stories I am familiar with, though they aren't much. I need to come up with a lousy 'fanfic' myself.

That said, I think I will devote this page to complaining about the Game of Thrones. Care to join me?

http://vk.com/doc-50747477_169577512?hash=add9da39798259c34c&dl=a66d6ae1a02f78d02e

The Game of Thrones takes place in a continent that looks a blown-up island of Great Britain (no pun intended). Hadrian's Wall, the wall that (roughly) separated England from Scotland came to mind when I saw the map showing the northern parts of the continent separated from the rest of civilization by a structure known as The Wall. I wonder how a Scot would feel though seeing the much of the land north of the Wall as uncharted territory (inhabited by Wild Men Wildlings)

So allow me to begin by quoting the story at length.

Page 1:
Spoiler:
We should start back,” Gared urged as the woods began to grow dark around them. “The wildlings are dead.”
“Do the dead frighten you?” Ser Waymar Royce asked with just the hint of a smile.
Gared did not rise to the bait. He was an old man, past fifty, and he had seen the lordlings come and go. “Dead is dead,” he said. “We have no business with the dead.”
“Are they dead?” Royce asked softly. “What proof have we?”
“Will saw them,” Gared said. “If he says they are dead, that’s proof enough for me.”


While it is too early to judge whether this prologue would be informative or not, I had the eerie feeling that instead of it being a proper prologue which introduces the setting of the universe through a story, it is merely a prequel. To make matters worse, already there are alien terms thrown into the story that are not introduced properly. They are namely, "Wildling" and "lordling".

The last time I checked a dictionary, a wildling is what people from bygone days call a wild plant. One might think that Gared and Ser Waymar Royce are gardeners struggling against an infestation of killer weeds. I would like to ask why George Martin is reluctant to settle for Wild Men, Barbarians, Nomads, First Nations, Aborigines, Scotchman or some other English word that implies that Gared and company are dealing with people not accustomed to and alien to civilisation?

To give credit to Martin, I do have an idea what a lordling is. They are the scions of some lord, or so I thought. What disturbs me more about 'lordling' is the sentence that contains it, namely, "He (Gared) was an old man, past fifty, and he had seen the lordlings come and go."

I know some acquaintances who are of the opinion that this piques their interest. They would want to know what was Gared's line of work which saw lordlings 'come and go'. However, in my case, that sentence elicited feelings of confusion since I have no idea what is happening! Come to and go away from what exactly? Is he an excursion teacher of sorts leading lordlings into the wild to pluck wildlings? Surely he can't be a veteran of some patrol lead by inexperienced young nobles who get themselves turned into ice zombies by the end of the watch?

In a fantasy world where the rules are not congruous or at least similar to that of the real world, it is very necessary to explain terms and settings. While Martin has a repository of wonderful ideas swimming in his head and would have no problem understanding the paragraphs he wrote, surely he knows that this reader (and most readers for that matter) can't read his mind. Could he kindly explain what a Wildling is and what Gared is doing?

But wait, it gets even more confusing from here!
leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
d(^_^)(^_^)d wrote...
leonard267 wrote...
When the words "The Others" were first introduced, I have no idea what to make of them. At least I know what a Black Rider is from its name. This is actually the best time for some explanation as to why they are dangerous. I thought they were another organisation like the Night Watch.

Even the fact that The Others were ice zombies wasn't made clear. I thought Weymar Royce got better when I first read it!


I agree that the author didn't do the best job he could have. I think he should have made Will's reaction to The Others a bit different. But again, why explain why they're dangerous when he can show us?

I too initially thought that Royce had survived until he turned on Will and his eye was glowing blue.


The answer why I thought it is better to introduce The Others is because I could have interpreted the action scenes to mean something else altogether. Don't look too much into my suggestion that The Others ought to be described as dangerous. What I wanted was a proper introduction of The Others which I felt wasn't done in the prologue.

I think a proper introduction is more than just giving them a physical description. If I were Martin, I would have spoken about how they were given the name "The Others" or rumours about them.

That aside, will you be coming up with something for the writing event?
leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
Shikinokami wrote...
It's like the old writers lounge, but BETTER!

Can I ask a question to you experienced writers? How do you like your main characters?

What is your favorite setting for a story?

What do you think of female MC's?


I would like my main character to explain what is going on in the story from his or her point of view.

My favourite setting is a setting that is properly explained, most likely that of real life.

I would like that female main character to explain what is going on in the story from her point of view.

d(^_^)(^_^)d wrote...


The Others have mysterious weapons that can shatter conventional swords, and as showcased in the prologue, the people they kill rise back from the dead. No, no explanation of what the Others are, but that's enough to know I don't want to cross paths with these guys.


When the words "The Others" were first introduced, I have no idea what to make of them. At least I know what a Black Rider is from its name. This is actually the best time for some explanation as to why they are dangerous. I thought they were another organisation like the Night Watch.

Even the fact that The Others were ice zombies wasn't made clear. I thought Weymar Royce got better when I first read it!
leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
This is where we left off!

high_time wrote...
leonard267 wrote...
I have mentioned this to you in the PMs and I think I may as well mention it here. For me, it was not so much to do whether it is bland but more to do with me being completely lost with the introduction or rather the lack of it of characters and terms used. Like the Night Watch, Others, who are Gared, Will (who appeared out of nowhere) and Weymar.

Of course I had other problems with the prologue as well in terms of the style of writing. I hope I can elaborate on that as soon as possible, most likely by next week.


maybe it's most likely not my taste. don't worry 'bout it since I don't have motivation to read most of the books that's out there. except if it seems to stand out completely different or those of my preference, I won't really read it longer than a few paragraphs, sentences or even just the title. even if i liked some books it will take a really long time for me to finish on.

i think you know the reason why.


It is not so much about taste in genres for me. It is rather about how the story is presented. I am sorry to have made you suffer Out Xnining Xninebreaker. That story falls under romance and war.

d(^_^)(^_^)d wrote...
leonard267 wrote...
high_time wrote...
well at the prologue, i only like, read few sentences and skipped through the end. i don't feel the writing was all that appealing at all. it was bland to me so to say.


I have mentioned this to you in the PMs and I think I may as well mention it here. For me, it was not so much to do whether it is bland but more to do with me being completely lost with the introduction or rather the lack of it of characters and terms used. Like the Night Watch, Others, who are Gared, Will (who appeared out of nowhere) and Weymar.


I feel like I should at least try to defend GRRM since I happen to like those books. First, I'm going to qualify what you've said. There are indeed a lot names and terms thrown at the reader. You'll find that many fantasy stories suffer from a steep learning curve. It's a whole new world, and should the author stop to explain everything the story would get nowhere. Sometimes, us readers can't do anything but press on and put faith in the authors to elaborate later.

Having said that, I don't believe it's as bad as you make it out to be. Will did not appear out of nowhere, at least not any more than Gared or Royce did. He only made his appearance slightly later than the other two. While we initially know nothing about any of these characters, we are given sufficient background on them soon enough.

Until more solid definitions are given, there is plenty of information to infer from what's said in the prologue. For instance, I gather that whatever the Night's Watch is, its an enemy of the wildlings. Also, the Wall sounds very much like some kind of fortress that the Night's Watch is situated at. The Others, definitely magical in nature, are more than likely going to serve as villains though their origins and motives are unclear at this point. However, it would appear that whoever they are, these characters--and the Night's Watch by extension--are unprepared for them. There is recognition, but Will was not expecting them, and his account of there appearance sounds like it's being given by someone who is witnessing them for the first time.

In the end, the prologue can be summed up as thus: Some rangers of the Night's Watch were sent out to track down some wildlings, but it went horribly wrong when the Others showed up unexpectedly.

What does this have to do with anything? The only way to find out is to read on. The next chapter may enlighten us, or we may not find out until page 700. I can definitely see how that could throw someone off who would prefer to have a rundown of the details beforehand.

Spoiler:
As of the end of the fifth book, we still don't know where the Others come from or what they're after.


To steal a quote from you: I hate this kind of prologue. I question whether it is a prologue at all.

I will go into detail about why I dislike the prologue of the Game of Thrones hopefully by next week. Allow me to address what you mentioned about The Others.

I was expecting at least an explanation of what The Others were. What did The Others do that made them so dangerous? I felt that other than a physical description of what they were, I did not get much from the description in the prologue. When I first came across the term, I did not know what to think of them at all! It is just thrown out of nowhere!

Same with wildling. Why can't Martin just use Wild Men like Tolkien did?!
From this dictionary, a wildling is a plant! (It is also spelled as 'wilding')
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wilding
leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
This is The Writer's Lounge which was suggested by my good friend high_time quite some time ago to serve ostensibly as a chatroom for proper writers, self-proclaimed writers and the ever ubiquitous non-writers. At one point of time however I was convinced that the title of the Lounge ought to be called The High_Time and Leonard267 Chat Thread.

There is another thread called the Fakku Writers' Lounge. Unfortunately that thread was hit by a bug and someone really wanted to post his thoughts about the Game of Thrones. The WRITER'S Lounge intends to continue from where that thread left off.

This thread is where you generally discuss about writing and other matters not pertaining to writing. These are the guidelines which by the way you can feel free not to follow:

- Writers and non-writers can share writing techniques and their tastes in writing or reading.

- One can make remarks, disparaging or otherwise, about the works of others, obscure or otherwise.

- One can share what goes on one's mind when one is writing.

- Really, since people get their inspiration to write from all manners of sources like books, audiobooks, videos, things they saw while going to the supermarket, some moment of serendipity that no normal person would likely encounter in their lives and the newspaper, one can talk about anything under the sun really.


That said, let's get all chummy with each other and forge everlasting friendships with writers and non-writers and anyone else who bothers to post here, shall we?
leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
high_time wrote...
leonard267 wrote...
I have mentioned this to you in the PMs and I think I may as well mention it here. For me, it was not so much to do whether it is bland but more to do with me being completely lost with the introduction or rather the lack of it of characters and terms used. Like the Night Watch, Others, who are Gared, Will (who appeared out of nowhere) and Weymar.

Of course I had other problems with the prologue as well in terms of the style of writing. I hope I can elaborate on that as soon as possible, most likely by next week.


maybe it's most likely not my taste. don't worry 'bout it since I don't have motivation to read most of the books that's out there. except if it seems to stand out completely different or those of my preference, I won't really read it longer than a few paragraphs, sentences or even just the title. even if i liked some books it will take a really long time for me to finish on.

i think you know the reason why.


It is not so much about taste in genres for me. It is rather about how the story is presented. I am sorry to have made you suffer Out Xnining Xninebreaker. That story falls under romance and war.

d(^_^)(^_^)d wrote...
leonard267 wrote...
high_time wrote...
well at the prologue, i only like, read few sentences and skipped through the end. i don't feel the writing was all that appealing at all. it was bland to me so to say.


I have mentioned this to you in the PMs and I think I may as well mention it here. For me, it was not so much to do whether it is bland but more to do with me being completely lost with the introduction or rather the lack of it of characters and terms used. Like the Night Watch, Others, who are Gared, Will (who appeared out of nowhere) and Weymar.


I feel like I should at least try to defend GRRM since I happen to like those books. First, I'm going to qualify what you've said. There are indeed a lot names and terms thrown at the reader. You'll find that many fantasy stories suffer from a steep learning curve. It's a whole new world, and should the author stop to explain everything the story would get nowhere. Sometimes, us readers can't do anything but press on and put faith in the authors to elaborate later.

Having said that, I don't believe it's as bad as you make it out to be. Will did not appear out of nowhere, at least not any more than Gared or Royce did. He only made his appearance slightly later than the other two. While we initially know nothing about any of these characters, we are given sufficient background on them soon enough.

Until more solid definitions are given, there is plenty of information to infer from what's said in the prologue. For instance, I gather that whatever the Night's Watch is, its an enemy of the wildlings. Also, the Wall sounds very much like some kind of fortress that the Night's Watch is situated at. The Others, definitely magical in nature, are more than likely going to serve as villains though their origins and motives are unclear at this point. However, it would appear that whoever they are, these characters--and the Night's Watch by extension--are unprepared for them. There is recognition, but Will was not expecting them, and his account of there appearance sounds like it's being given by someone who is witnessing them for the first time.

In the end, the prologue can be summed up as thus: Some rangers of the Night's Watch were sent out to track down some wildlings, but it went horribly wrong when the Others showed up unexpectedly.

What does this have to do with anything? The only way to find out is to read on. The next chapter may enlighten us, or we may not find out until page 700. I can definitely see how that could throw someone off who would prefer to have a rundown of the details beforehand.

Spoiler:
As of the end of the fifth book, we still don't know where the Others come from or what they're after.


To steal a quote from you: I hate this kind of prologue. I question whether it is a prologue at all.

I will go into detail about why I dislike the prologue of the Game of Thrones hopefully by next week. Allow me to address what you mentioned about The Others.

I was expecting at least an explanation of what The Others were. What did The Others do that made them so dangerous? I felt that other than a physical description of what they were, I did not get much from the description in the prologue. When I first came across the term, I did not know what to think of them at all! It is just thrown out of nowhere!

Same with wildling. Why can't Martin just use Wild Men like Tolkien did?!
From this dictionary, a wildling is a plant! (It is also spelled as 'wilding')
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wilding
leonard267 FAKKU Non-Writer
10 years ago
I intend to do something later this afternoon. Report writing mainly.
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