Abortions - Right or Wrong?

Honestly I'm just not sure. I know that sounds terribly cold-hearted, but I can't say I would know what I would in that situation. I've had a stance on the issue of abortion for awhile, but I'll admit I'm not really educated on the issue and I haven't really thought long and hard about what I would do as a father in that situation or the potential consequences of my actions.

No need to feel cornered. I just ask these questions for the sake of argument because I don't know what I'd do in that situation either.

I was just using your example. How exactly could you tell their life would suck. Also 13 people that’s a lot sorry dude I know one dude who committed suicide, but his life kicked ass and no one ever figured out why he did it.
Abortions taking a life away from someone I find that wrong.

I don't think of the fetus as a "living being" in the sense that it can feel and act for itself. Until the brain of the fetus is developed, I believe that women have every right to choose to abort or carry on. Why should the mother suffer for unintended consequences? A lot people think about the child, but what about the mother? What about the fact that she doesn't want the child but is forced to give birth? Aren't we risking the mother's life here? And if born, you believe the child is going to receive the average treatment and love as any other child, especially if the mother didn't want to have it? Do any you guys know that neglect and child abuse can and have stem from unwanted births?

To me, the fetus is as good as the mother. No mother, no fetus.

"I had the power to give birth to you, and I sure as hell have the power to send you back." - not verbatim, this well known quote, but the point is understood from a mother's point of view disciplining/scolding her child/ren.

Honestly it comes down to whether feti should be considered human lives. If yes, as I believe, then clearly abortion is wrong and should not be legal except in cases of danger to the life of the mother. I remember debating this in a very old thread, but I think that feti = or != human has to be at the heart of the debate. People can talk about the rare situation of rape, which is definitely a terrible thing, but the reality is that most abortions are not done in the case of rape or danger to the life of the mother.

Indeed it is a lot, but meh, it's a common occurrence in this hellhole town. But you are correct, it's not possible to know if their life would suck. I simply mean, if the parents themselves know they would not treat their child the way it needs to be, they should have the choice. There is always that chance his life would turn out fine regardless, but there's also the chance it wouldn't. It's just a bit of a gamble I suppose. That may sound harsh, gambling with a life, but eh, it's just how I see it.

I love children and all, but I hate seeing or hearing about a child suffering more than anything else in this world. If the child isn't born, they wont care because they never had the chance to live to realize they were being killed, and it would save them from said suffering.

While the focus is on post-natal infanticide:

As usual (I love these) there's an ADDED TWIST:
To the scholarly community it is no secret that SIDS is largely synonymous with maternal infanticide. And so, the "after birth" scenario occurs not infrequently, and is in fact deeply and universally rooted in human culture at large (Madis Arukask has done excellent research on this, which I recommend to everyone interested). The only difference is that the "in utero" scenario is painless for the fetus, because pain reception does not set on before the 30th week, which is well beyond the scope of the legal 14 week span.

Dose the fact that it is not yet a human really an issue? I’m talking about the fact that we know it will become human. So how can we rightfully kill “something” we know will become human? We know they will one day become human so how can we kill them? I like this example of what I’m talking about.

@GinIchimaru_09: you seem to keep considering the fetus's point of view. Ever thought about it from a mother's point of view? (Reread my last post) As much as you want to tout pro-life, the one who's bearing all the burden, unwanted or not, is the mother. It affect her life, her decisions, her movement, and her health. Why should someone living suffer at the hands of something that technically is but isn't sentient? Makes no sense to me.

So birth control is murder too, because you kill something living (sperm, ovum) that we know will one day become human if allowed to fuse.

I do I take the baby’s life as a priority because the baby is not killing the mother. So no offence but that future human’s life is more important than her have some inconvenience.

To both of you guys: my point was that one has to consider whether a fetus should count as a human and get the same protection. Obviously, many of the philosophical traits we use to define humans, such as self-awareness, aren't there yet, but that seems to be true of infants as well. I think conception is the best option, but it is tough because the spectrum of development is a continuum.

Why isn't birth control murder? For the same reason passing up an opportunity to have sex isn't murder: the "building process" of the fetus hasn't been initiated yet. If a kid was planning to build something with legos but I took them all before he could start, saying that I "destroyed his construction" wouldn't really be accurate. The minute he puts two blocks together and I take them apart, then I have destroyed something. In fact, conception is one of the two definitive points where something can be identified as changing pretty much at a point. The other is birth, since the fetus ceases to physically be attached to the mother.

Of course, that whole line of argument can be made for either side. If someone supports abortion up to birth, then why isn't infanticide acceptable? If someone supports abortion up until week X, then why isn't later week Y acceptable(point out similarities).

Because it's a societally established middle way, a compromise between no abortions at all and abortions whenever desired. Not much of any other reason for me there. Call it civility towards the concerns of pro-lifers for the sake of societal peace, if you will.


What about methods of birth control that inhibit nidation? In this case the "building process" (fertilization of the ovum) has been initiated.

Are you not aware of all the health risks involved in carrying a baby? There are few cases, but sometimes the mother dies while giving birth to the baby or both or the mother lives but the baby is a stillborn. If she doesn't want to give birth, why force her with the added risk of potential death? Consider the fact that you're lugging around a 5-10lb weight around your abdomen, it also imposes back problems and severly limits your movements. Women with high blood pressure are liable to go into hypertension and possibly die. Also food poisoning can create meningitis and pneumonia in the fetus and can also result in death.

That just health factors - what if you're not financially prepared? Unless you hit a gold mine or win a lottery, your financial condition isn't going to change that much - you have the money to support an unwanted child? Should you and your wife be forced to sacrifice everything for something they don't want? It's clear to me that the answer's no.

Should have thought of that before hand eh? Should have used a condom if you're not sure you want to have a baby. If it broke, then abort before it becomes self aware.

I think it's easy for people to judge and claim their position on something when they haven't actually gone through the situations themselves. This applies to both ends of the spectrum. The for and the against.

I've had one pregnancy scare so far and it was about 2-3 weeks after one of the breakups with my ex. It got to the point that my school told me that if I did not get an official pregnancy test at my family doctor's they'd have to take action and tell my mom about the situation if I didn't, because I could be endangering a child's life.

I basically had all the symptoms in the book. What it really came down to was stress.
During the process though, I contacted my ex - and we had a lovely 4 hour argument.

He was for abortion, I was against it. Though later I felt a tinge of wanting to abort.

When you're 18 and still in high school working minimal wage with an ex boyfriend who wants nothing to do with the 'child, let alone you, and living with a single mom who barely can make ends meet - you're tempted to abort.

I was on birth control, before any 'well that's your fault, you should have been using contraceptives'

I'd still be scared shitless if I got pregnant any time between now and finishing college.

In the end I don't think you can really judge the acts of people until you're going through the situation yourself.

Problem is that most youngsters don't think clearly, hence all this razz about unplanned pregnancies. It's a valid point, but what if the condom broke during sex? You can't blame the couple for that.

@ZiggyOtaku: You still didn't provide an opinion. Hypothetically speaking, if I made love and then something happened, and my girlfriend had a baby during the later years of high school/college, I would want her to abort too. The financial argument in terms of the baby is a strong one, but I wouldn't be so callous and say that the child had nothing to do with me. That's just running away from reality, and when it comes to children, you need two to tango. Then you have health problems that follow in having a baby, and then trying to explain the situation to your parents, and then you have to embrace a lifestyle change when you reach your 4th or 5th month. It's a lot of pressure and stress to make sure that baby gets out in the world, and I wouldn't want her to go through it. I don't wanna pull straws, but I think sometimes women who become pregnant, even if they don't really want and can't really finance her baby, end up having it because of maternal instincts: ah, I've got a child in my uterus, MY child, and I want to see it born. This also leads to irrational decisions when it is clearly in her best interests to not have the child. And again, this is just a psychological observation, but from what you dsecribed, I think I've hit the nail.

But back to your last point, what about all the people who have gone through the experience and are still fighting for whatever side of the abortion argument? I'm sure their arguments aren't any different from the ones we're making here, if not based on real experience.

WhiteLion makes a valid point in stating that it boils down to what is considered a human or a fetus. I take the middle stance (if we can determine what's human and what's just a bunch of growing cells) where once you reach past a certain point, abortion is no longer an option. Give or take somewhere before 3-5 months.

There's more to it then 'there's a baby in my uterus and I want it because it's mine' Just so you know.

I purposely left out my opinion of it (though it was kind of in there) just to tell you all who are dead set on your decisions that it's harder to deal with then you'd thing.

When it comes down to it, I probably would at this stage in life. I would hate it, and I wouldn't be happy about it. But I don't want to ruin my chance at becoming something after college, and I want to be able to provide a good home.

Is that selfish? Of course, I'm not denying it. But I do my part with birth control and do my part in trying to prevent it. Hopefully that day never comes.

I wouldn't call that selfish.

Its obvious by this thread even that everyone had their opinions, but that is just what they are, individual opinions. Anyone who'd really look down on someone for making that decision really has to put themselves in that situation and realize not everyone is the same.

Wow, now I'm going all idealist here. >.<

Please elaborate if you can. I could go into a more in-depth analysis of why women want to have their baby, but I thought I caught the gist of it. Unless women use the baby as a leverage over their lover... which I can't imagine that being a valid reason. You mentioned you wanted to have the baby, but then later reneged on that.



If so, would you mind sharing some reasons why you went through your abortion? I feel that you're saying our opinions and arguments are moot because we (mainly guys here) haven't experienced it, but I find every argument sound if not valid. If you don't want to answer because it's personal, that's fine and we can understand that, but it weakens your argument. (Unless I'm misinterpreting something, then point out the misunderstanding.)